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Old 03-08-2009, 04:14 PM   #1
stangzroastrice
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Default 2002 WRX w/ MBC, stock tune, catless exhaust

This was my first time running on the track.
Raceway Park in NJ, 60 degrees

2002 WRX on stock tune and stock TD04
Mods:
MBC set at 15psi
Cat-less up-pipe
ERZ cat-less 3" bellmouth down-pipe
eBay 3" N1 knockoff cat-less exhaust

Timeslip:
R/T .570
60' 2.383
1/4 14.122
MPH 100.73

*EDIT: New time as of 3/14/09 - 13.259 1/4 ET @ 100.61 MPH (1.905 60') (Refer to post further down in thread)

I must say I was pretty impressed due to the fact that I was a little nervous due to being my first time. I can see there is much improvement needed in the 60', which can shave off a decent amount of time in the 1/4, but the one thing that surprised me was the trap speed. I didn't expect to break 100mph with my modifications, but I guess I underestimated the car. Anyone have any opinions based on the trap and what I could possibly run with a better 60'? I am going to test and tune this upcoming Saturday to run again, which I'm hoping for a possible mid-13 or so based on what I have read with trap speeds similar.
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Last edited by stangzroastrice; 03-15-2009 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:20 PM   #2
slowwrx02
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high 13s with better 60ft like 1.8-1.9
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:21 PM   #3
stangzroastrice
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Good to know, I bogged it pretty bad on the launch because I was being a bit conservative with it, but next weekend I want to try and get a nice launch to see the improvement.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:39 PM   #4
Boxer112
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so when are you getting tuned?
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:40 PM   #5
FunkRider
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Spend a few bucks on a tatrix cable and get a tune.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:49 PM   #6
stangzroastrice
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As soon as possible, money has been pretty tight (any extra cash I get has been going to paying off my remaining credit card debt, not spending a dime on car parts until it's at zero, which will be very soon.). I have been meaning to pick up or borrow a Tactrix/EVOScan cable to go ahead and purchase a XPT Stage 2 map for the car accompanied by a GM BCS. I am aware of the part throttle lean conditions that can occur with a MBC, so I consistently watch my boost when not in WOT. I have datalogged the car with a 15 dollar VAG cable (can't flash with this cable on a drive by cable car though ) to ensure the car is running properly, and aside from running rich on the stock tune, it has some leeway, so I felt it was safe to keep the controller set around 15psi. I bought the car with the MBC already on there, and although I love the "instant" spool, I'd feel much more comfortable with a GM BCS on there. Needless to say, the car has 89k miles on it, and I put 13k on it myself with no issues so far .

Last edited by stangzroastrice; 03-08-2009 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:52 PM   #7
LeeC
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Lol... what is an "ebay apexi n1"

If it's not apexi, it's not an apexi n1
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Old 03-08-2009, 04:54 PM   #8
stangzroastrice
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Well, I should have phrased that in a better way, it's a knockoff of the Apexi N1 design. *edited
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:35 PM   #9
mxpunk
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i think a mid 13 is possible with your setup now

with a tune and 17-19 psi a low 13 will come.

you can turn up the boost alittle more with no tune but it isnt really reccomended. a friend of mine has the same mods as you except he is running 16 psi and hes had the car since it was new, and it has close to 100K on it, more then half with the boost controller. the 16bit ecu transistions from CL to OL pretty quickly so i doubt the PTFB issue is really a problem in your case.
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:45 AM   #10
SubyWill
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yould should def. be 13s

i ran a 13.7 with an ebay catted tbe and no tune
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Old 03-14-2009, 05:22 PM   #11
stangzroastrice
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*BUMP*
Well, went to the track once again today and obtained a new personal best compared to my very first run last week. Keep in mind this is at full weight with a bit over 1/2 tank of gas, nothing removed. I must say I am VERY surprised, 60' really does make a difference. I was expecting a mid-13 or so, but guess I was wrong. Out of my four runs, this is my best time:

R/T .302
60' 1.905
330 5.462
1/8 8.474
MPH 82.21
1000 11.049
1/4 13.259
MPH 100.61

Funny thing is, my slowest run was a 13.728 (completely bogged the launch, 2.150 60'), but managed to trap 101.6MPH in the 1/4. If only I netted a 1.7-1.8 60' along with that trap speed, would that be flat 13 territory? I'm going to try and run the car again within the next upcoming couple weeks when money permits, I'm addicted. Let me know what you guys think!

*EDIT*
Videos:
Unfortunately, in the video of my 13.259 ET run, the Mustang next to me was listed as a 'no time' car and the times were therefore not displayed on the board . The guy in the Mustang ran a 12.678 ET with a 1.810 60' and 108.42MPH trap for reference.
13.259 ET - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBxDM8dxzFI
(Slowest run, but great trap speed, wtf?) 13.728 ET - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcdVU0no1IM

Last edited by stangzroastrice; 03-14-2009 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:26 PM   #12
stangzroastrice
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ttt, no input ???
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:44 PM   #13
Str8Gone
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you should really get an accessport or something, you'll need alittle more power to hit 13.0, generally need to trap about 103+
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:49 PM   #14
stangzroastrice
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Yeah, I did some reading over at dragtimes.com and have come to realize that I'll need to trap between 103-104 MPH to flirt with flat 13 second ET's, which it seems that my car has a consistency of trapping between 100.5-101.5 mph depending on my shifting. After managing these times, it makes me wonder how the car will do with a GM BCS on there and the XPT Xtreme Stage 2 map. Hopefully it won't be slower without the MBC hah.
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:57 PM   #15
rjrutzky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangzroastrice View Post
looks like a stang roasted your rice
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:39 PM   #16
Str8Gone
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it will def. be slower without the mbc
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:58 PM   #17
stangzroastrice
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I've always been curious about those who run these stage 2 maps with a MBC installed. I know that regardless it is not considered safe whether it is a stock tune or an OTS map, but how do these bugeye's run with an OTS map along with a MBC? If the precautions are taken to still be careful with the part throttle full boost conditions (although I would imagine the stage 2 map would have much more leniency towards this issue than the stock tune), would it be relatively safe to run assuming the MBC is set at the target boost for the map? Sorry if this has been asked numerous times, but never found a clear answer on this type of setup through my mild research.
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Old 03-15-2009, 11:07 PM   #18
mxpunk
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the 02 & 03 transistion pretty quickly into open loop so even with a mbc, the ptfb thing isnt a big deal IMO

it will hit a big load point @ 17 psi or so @that low of an rpm and go into open loop.
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:01 PM   #19
Steve.804
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Get that thing tuned man.

Without an aftermarket tune your throttle position is what determins the amount of fuel to inject. To safely run a MBC, that needs to be changed to go by boost amount. I'm sure you're already aware, but even at part throttle a MBC will allow a turbo to spool 'naturally' which can (will) exceed that of the factory solenoid. So unless you're going WOT you're probably running a little lean driving around town...all the time. Just because your car is running faster dosnt mean it's running BETTER.

If you know this and simply dont think this applies to your car or maybe you like high EGT's then good luck with that. A used V1 AP runs like $300 now a days, right?
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Old 03-16-2009, 08:06 PM   #20
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Actually no... Your Open Loop fuel scaling determines the fuel he gets.. But I will gaurentee hes over running his load points - meaning anything after the (I think) 2.15 g/rev the fueling is just reverting back to the last available point - meaning it is underfueling...

This sounds bad and is.. Not only that his timing is doing the same thing..

ANYWAY.. he needs to get a tune... Stock runs pig rich so it will lean out a bit- I would be real nervous about running anything over 14.5psi on the stock tune... and I would be nervous about running the stock tune on the stock boost as its horrible and choppy.

Get a cable and start learning open source tuning or take it to a tuner if you like your engine..

-jerod
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:21 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangzroastrice View Post
I've always been curious about those who run these stage 2 maps with a MBC installed. I know that regardless it is not considered safe whether it is a stock tune or an OTS map, but how do these bugeye's run with an OTS map along with a MBC? If the precautions are taken to still be careful with the part throttle full boost conditions (although I would imagine the stage 2 map would have much more leniency towards this issue than the stock tune), would it be relatively safe to run assuming the MBC is set at the target boost for the map? Sorry if this has been asked numerous times, but never found a clear answer on this type of setup through my mild research.
I've got one data point for you. I went about 70k with a catless dp, untuned. I then got an Ecutek tuned ECU, which was a good solid tune set at about 15.5-16psi max boost. My stock solenoid started to go at 130k, and instead of paying for a full tune just for a new solenoid, I threw a MBC on there. I'm very happy with the MBC now at 170k. The boost response is great, I was able to turn up the target boost to 18-19, the boost is more more stable in the mid range, and it holds better up top. Engine has been fine the past 40k, and my oil analysis at 150k looked perfectly healthy.
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Old 03-20-2009, 01:03 AM   #22
stangzroastrice
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Not for nothing as well, I do have the capabilities of datalogging the car (just can't flash on a drive by cable car with this VAG COM cable). From what I have seen running this setup, my AFR's have still been pig rich at WOT on the stock tune. The feedback knock correction advance has stayed consistent as well (not good to fluctuate correct?), but I will datalog other variables that I'm aware of now after doing some reading. I am fully aware that a full open source stage two tune along with a boost control solenoid would be the safest setup to run, but I wanted to post these results I obtained with the simple setup I have currently. Needless to say, I have had the setup exactly like this for now 14k miles since I bought the car along with the MBC and catless uppipe being on there for over 50k miles by the previous owner. As others have said, the bugeye's ECU seems to be much more 'friendly' with doing so, but again I want to reassure everyone that I'm not trying to depict this as a safe setup to run considering this car is a daily driver for me as well. Although the tune and the GM BCS may slow the car down a bit in the 1/4 mile, I realize this will be better in the long run for the engine's health, but then again, I'm definitely not disappointed in what the car is capable of doing now with the MBC on there as long as I'm careful with part throttle full boost driving.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:06 PM   #23
JaMes W
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with a 1.7 60 you would be able to run a 13.0X with that trap. thats pretty impressive for not having any EM.
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:09 PM   #24
stangzroastrice
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I mean, it was almost a perfect track day for a forced induction car. Very dry day, 55-60 degrees, and sea level elevation, so I do have the advantage from that. Either way, I was VERY surprised overall.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:19 AM   #25
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You both are about 30 minutes drive from each other... why don't you guys get together and bring a reliable laptop to your meet, and get the car as perfect as you can. Two pairs of eyes on a tune are likely to get a lot more out of the car then only one.

While I am at it here, I am in Maine. Is there anyone within 50 miles of Augusta who knows RomRaider and/or OpenECU and can give me a hand with mine? Anything I can bring to the meet for a. help b. fun? I will bring as much of "b." as possible, however "a." all I have is the electronics and the car (runs on a stock tune, pics of my EC are everywhere,
linky:
http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/g...asmancrawford/

I am looking to do as much as possible regardless of grenading my transmission. If we shred gears, it can be flatbedded in for a 6spd swap, and I'd need you again, so let me know what's good. If we can max it out AND keep the gears from turning to dust, it will be ready for a paint massage and then off to NY for HIN in '10!
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