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Old 04-11-2002, 04:41 AM   #1
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 5712
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Omaha NE
2001 2.5RS 5mt sedan

Default Yokohama avs db vs BFG gforce KDWS vs Dunlop sp5000

I have not read much about the BFG and Yoko tires. I can't really afford 2 sets of wheels right now so I am looking for the best handling (over comfort) high performance all season tire.
I have read a lot of good things about the sp5000's but also that that they have soft sidewalls and roll over during autox's.
I called 3 online retailers and asked them about these 3 tires.
Tirerack recommended the yoko's.
Discount Tire Direct recommended the Dunlop's.
Onlinetires recommended the BFG's.
I'm back where I started........................
To me the BFG's look like the best handling tires. I like the look of the avs db's. If the handling difference is negligible I would get the Yoko's.
I'd like to hear from people with experience autoxing with any of these 3 tires, especially the BFG KDWS and Yoko avs db.
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Old 04-12-2002, 08:38 AM   #2
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 5712
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Omaha NE
2001 2.5RS 5mt sedan


Someone has to have autocrossed on these tires. Help me out please. Calling Luke@Tirerack.....................Doug
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Old 04-12-2002, 09:04 AM   #3
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 4825
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Buffalo
2013 BRZ


I have 204/55/16 Dunlop SP 5000s on my sedan. I have about 8,600 miles on them. Been to both an autocross and to a track where the tires ran about 82 miles. They've held up pretty darn well. Plenty of tread left. Judging from the rubbings, you can tell there's been a little bit of sidewall flexing, but it's minimal. Nothing like the RE92s. Decent in the snow, great in the rain, and very confident in the dry.
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Old 04-12-2002, 11:49 AM   #4
The Ru
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 4937
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Allentown to Stroudsburg, Pa
95 M3
Alpine White

Default BFG's

Last summer i had on the BFG KDW's in 215/50/16. They were great. good sidewall, great handling and pretty good wear. They are loud tires but thats to be expected i guess. I never even had the balls to push them past there limits. only thing is i got them from tirerack when they were 92 bucks a tire, not 139. i dont think ill be paying 139 a tire for them again. At what i paid for them, they were well worth it.

Hope that helps,

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Old 04-12-2002, 12:29 PM   #5
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Member#: 9106
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: 10 Doors, 2 Scoops!
2002 WRX Wagon - PSM
2008 STI - Aspen White


I have AVS dBs and have autocrossed them once. The bad news is I was rushed, and didn't have time to pump them up before the event, and then nobody had a compressor.

They weren't all that great, though I think at mild street pressures they were still better than RE-92s pumped up to 44. If you look at the dB, you'll see HUGE rain channels. These will save your life on the street in the real world, but they are less than ideal for dry autocrossing, where you want max rubber on the road.
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Old 04-12-2002, 01:38 PM   #6
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Member#: 11989
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
2006 LegacyGT LTD
Brilliant Metallic Silver


I think if you read the reviews on tirerack.com you will find that: (1) the SP5000s out performs the others a little in the snow
(2) AVSdB are the quietest
(3) G-Forces are the newest (results are most unreliable)

I think you are trying to get too much out of one tire. You have to choose whether you want the most versatile all-season tire or the best performing tire for a given driving condition.

Check out the comparison:

I think dry performance wise the breakout is like this
(1) AVSdB
(2) G-Force
(3) SP5000

Best Snow performance
(1) SP5000
(2) G-Force
(3) AVSdB

Best Wet Performance
(1) G-Force
(2) AVSdb
(3) SP5000

Most Versatile
(1) G-Force
(2) SP5000
(3) AVSdb

Now here is the kicker. There is something called statiscal significance. You need a sample size that is certain percentage of the total population for it to be a "significant" poll. As the sample size grows large the margin for error goes down. The smallest the margin for error can get to is +/- 5%. That is because, people at the extremes tend to upset the "real" average. For most things that number is between 50-150 replys.

The ratings on tire rack are not exactly fair. If you look to the right, as the number of total report miles goes higher, the ratings (represented as averages) on the left become more reliable. The best would be if all three ratings had the same number of miles reported.

Of the three you have chose, the SP5000 have a 2.8 million miles reported, so the numbers are representative of how most people feel about them. We know that the SP5000 last about 30K miles on average. So we can guess that 93 people have reported in. One can guess that this that this information is significant and can be reasonably relied upon.

The AVSdB has 1.04 million miles reported, so I would probably feel safe with the results. Using the same 30K milage per set, 34 people reported in. So the information can be off by a bit more than the SP5000, upsetting the rankings in each of the categories.

The G-Forces are the newest, so you are stuck trying to figure out if the folks are (a) using the tires in a enviroment similar to yours, (b) driving like you, and (c) telling the objective truth. (As opposed to saying anything good to avoid feeling stupid for spending $800 for crappy tires.)

SP5000 are the safest bet, enough people here are using them. AVSdb are second safest bet. G-Forces are the experiment.

However, without the risk takers, we would never find the next better tire. So the choice is yours, leader or follower. Both has it's advantages and disadvantages.
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Old 04-12-2002, 02:37 PM   #7
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 7453
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Grapevine, TX
2005 Legacy GT Wagon
2006 LJ Rubicon


Well, in a post that Luke made a while ago these are his rankings for high-performance all-season tires

Originally posted by Luke@tirerack
Ultra High Performance All Season
Performance tires which are capable of going through the snow.

1.) Sport 5000
2.) AVS DB (the quietest tire I have driven)
3.) G-Force KDWS
4.) Pilot XGT Z4
5.) P7000 Super Sport
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Old 04-12-2002, 02:42 PM   #8
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 9231
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: KC MO
2002 FXT PP


I put on a set of the BFG KDWS about 7000 miles ago, and I've autocrossed 4-5 times on them. I got them for the sidewall strength, and they haven't disappointed in that area; blow them up to 44-45 in the front and 40-42 rear, and rollover stops at the shoulder of the tire. The treadwear rating is close to 400, so you won't leave so much of your tires at the track, too.

The downsides are noise (not that bad, though, since I have the ScoobySport cat-back, too), and snow traction. At high speed they track okay, but they seem a little too squirrelly at low speeds, like parking lots or coming off the line in snow/slush. A little of that is to be expected, but these seemed more unpredictable than I thought.

I need to rotate mine before the next event, but they feel fine so far. Can't speak to the others for comparison; here's where I was asking the same question a while back, but about some different skins.
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Old 04-12-2002, 05:09 PM   #9
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 573
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Limerick, PA
2008 STi


I to have the BFG KDWS's also. I love them. Like OldManWRX had said about the sidewall it is stiff. I have these mounted on the stock wheels and I have a set of Bridgestone SO-2 PP's on 17" P1's and the SO2's are a softer ride than the KDWS's. The KDWS's handle pretty damn good compared to the SO-2's (SO-2's being better). I ran the KDWS's during my regions winter auto-x series and they performed really well. South-East PA got no snow this year except for one day and on that day the KDWS's were good in the snow. Like able to hold speedlimits and stop in just slightly longer barking distances with out sliding. But if you want to have fun with them they will do what you want .
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Old 04-12-2002, 05:21 PM   #10
Scooby Guru
Member#: 3781
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Napa Valley
2012 Fiat 500,
2009 Forester, 1968 F-100


I autocrossed on SP5000's ONCE and completely munched my 2 front tires.


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Old 04-12-2002, 06:57 PM   #11
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 10279
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: St. Louis, MO
2005 Lotus Elise
Yellow, #94 SS


Man, what tire pressure were you running there? Those rolled over more than my RE-92s!
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Old 04-14-2002, 03:52 PM   #12
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 5712
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Omaha NE
2001 2.5RS 5mt sedan


Thanks for the awesome replies. There seemed to be a lot of Tire Rack reviews on the AVS db's that mention uneven wear patterns. It looks like I will be ordering a set of BFG KDWS's this week. They appear to be the closest to what I'm looking for and I like being a trailblazer.
Thanks again...........................................Do ug
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