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Old 04-11-2002, 06:23 AM   #1
HubbieScooby
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Default stuff to reduce knocking??

hey guys

i will be installing a Ludespeed stage 2 next week and was wondering what are the many ways i can reduce knocking....i have a 2001 RS and the crappy pistons that comes standard with my car i am hoping to do everything possible to reduce knocking and detination until i have enough for a stand alone....i know high octane gasis one way... is going 100 octane over doing it?? i will also have a Apex ITC and colder NGK spark plugs....i am also planning on getting some forged pistons....i will be running only 4.4lbs....Tom from ludespeed said that running a something like 4.4lbs shouldn't be a problem....i try searching but i got a couple hundred results anyone know of any other safety procedures?? i am also getting a Ultra J&S next month.....any advice and criticism is widely appreciated thanx

hugh
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Old 04-11-2002, 05:26 PM   #2
subachad
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<last post whoreing of the day, I promise>

Check out this link, I cover a few things about detonation.

http://www.uniquemotorsports.com/sub...detonation.htm

Chad
93 1.8T
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Old 04-11-2002, 08:20 PM   #3
Legacy GTR
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with only 5 lbs, if you run on 93, you won't get any knocking. I've run 9lbs, with very little retard on my ITC and was far from knocking.
Mike
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Old 04-11-2002, 08:24 PM   #4
HubbieScooby
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Quote:
Originally posted by subachad
<last post whoreing of the day, I promise>

Check out this link, I cover a few things about detonation.

http://www.uniquemotorsports.com/sub...detonation.htm

Chad
93 1.8T
thanx chad...is there a difference between my 2001 RS and that car you ran....i more worried about the #4 pistons....i was thinking of running 95 or more octane with a few degrees of timing retard from an Apex ITC around the higher RPM range....and adjust the settings a little on the rich side just to make sure that there is enough fuel ALL the time....i don't mind the lose of power from running too rich....i guess i should consider a CAI that i can probably make myself to connect to the fender wall....i think i'll be heading off to get some injector cleaners....i only have about 12K miles on my car though....keep it coming guys....thanx

hugh
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Old 04-13-2002, 06:08 AM   #5
HubbieScooby
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bump....is it bad to retard too much?? i rather be safe than sorry....

hugh
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Old 04-13-2002, 07:04 AM   #6
RawCode
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If I remember correctly, The more you retard, the higher EGT's go...

RawCode
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Old 04-14-2002, 12:06 AM   #7
STiTuner
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I think retarding actually lowers the EGTs.

BUt not its pretty hard to over retard your timing. a few degrees of advance and retard is barely noticable but people will pull more retard when boosting higher levels, due to excessive temps and pressures.

Brad
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Old 04-14-2002, 12:22 AM   #8
hayscoob
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Quote:
Tom from ludespeed said that running a something like 4.4lbs shouldn't be a problem....
Ya, right. Tell that to my #4 piston. Hubbiescooby, I have to tell ya, buy a J&S and be glad of it. I have been with out my car for a week now. Tom said the same thing to me, and now I have a blown motor. 4.4 lbs spring and all... The cast pistons in the 00-01 block are crap and they can't handle much detonation. The weak link in the piston seams to be the ring landing. I only had the kit on for 3 weeks before I had a major failure. So, that being said, GET SOME TIMING CONTROL AND DON'T WAIT TO GET IT!. I don't mean to scare you if I am, but I don't want you to suffer the damage I did and the burden it places on you to get it fixed, both financialy and emotionaly. Good luck...

Quote:
with only 5 lbs, if you run on 93, you won't get any knocking. I've run 9lbs, with very little retard on my ITC and was far from knocking.
Legacy GTR,

I think you are runing a 9.7:1 ratio in your motor. That is, if you have a MAF based 2.5 litre motor in your legacy. They tend to respond better to boost. The MAP based 10:1 ratio plus boost is a toxic combo without Timing Control or PEMS in the 00-02 RS motor. I had pinging at 4.4 lbs of boost. Runing octane boost helped alot but still did not eliminate the problem. A J&S would have worked but still not the way to go. Full on PEMS is the only way to make it a daily reliable hammer time driver.

Paul...
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Old 04-14-2002, 01:15 AM   #9
STiTuner
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Has anyone ever thought to compare Vin numbers of cars with Blown pistons? maybe subaru got a bad allotment?

Brad
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Old 04-14-2002, 06:18 AM   #10
HubbieScooby
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thanx for the advice hayscoob....do you think an ITC will help enough for now?? i'll have to wait a month to get the J&S....i would think that a J&S would retard timing when it sense knocking or detination....if i used a ITC it will always be retarding timing...that way knocking wouldn't even accure....plus i can retard it to the point that its far away from pinging....plus i will be running very high octane gas....maybe like 95 or more....this should be okay for now right?? what is the specific advantage that and J&S have over a ITC?? sorry if im ignorant about the subject but i appreciate all the help....keep it coming guys thanx

hugh
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Old 04-14-2002, 06:44 AM   #11
HubbieScooby
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ummmm...one more thing....what is a PEMS???

hugh
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Old 04-14-2002, 10:35 AM   #12
Graham
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I PM'd you HubbieScooby.

Graham
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Old 04-14-2002, 12:37 PM   #13
hayscoob
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Hubbiescooby,

The "new" J&S knock sensor Ver II will retard timing based on your boost level. I never had pinging in 1st 2nd and 3rd gears. I only had pinginig in 4th and 5th gears when taching out over 4500 RPM. I think that the J&S knock sensor has the best reputation and a whole lot of people who use it here on i-club can safely say it saved their motors. PEMS stands for Programable Engine Management System. Ie, Tech II, Wolf 3d etc. That was my goal for my set up but the cost of rebuilding my motor with new rods and pistons and adding the PEMS and all of the labor an such would even out or exceed the amount of a full on motor swap. It didn't seem logical to keep spending huge amounts of money on my motor when there was a better solution out there.

When I origionaly made my decision to boost my car, there were very few WRX motors to be had. Ironically there are alot of them now and at pretty reasonable prices. So, when I broke, I decided to go that way...I just want my car back and to be reliable for every day use and the occasional spirited drive to the mountains with out worry.

Paul...
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Old 04-14-2002, 01:39 PM   #14
8Complex

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Has anyone thought about water injection?

And yes, retarding the timing too much will bring EGT's up, but it will bring detonation down. Just another tuning dissertation I'll have to sit down and see if I can figure out how to write.
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Old 04-14-2002, 02:50 PM   #15
HndaTch627
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
Has anyone thought about water injection?

And yes, retarding the timing too much will bring EGT's up, but it will bring detonation down. Just another tuning dissertation I'll have to sit down and see if I can figure out how to write.
you can try water injection but man it drinks alot of water, meant for cars with weiands sitting out of the hood and strip cars.

jeremy
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Old 04-14-2002, 03:45 PM   #16
HubbieScooby
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex
Has anyone thought about water injection?

And yes, retarding the timing too much will bring EGT's up, but it will bring detonation down. Just another tuning dissertation I'll have to sit down and see if I can figure out how to write.
does that mean my plan to run 95+ octane and retard with an ITC too much?? i heard high EGT is bad for the system....i guess i can retard only the RPM range that i hear knocking....probably 4500-5000K RPM.....hey graham pm'ed you back

hugh
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Old 04-14-2002, 07:42 PM   #17
STiTuner
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My N/A 240sx had water injection.. not as strong as Nitrous but you could deffinatly feel the difference of when its on and when its not.

Water doesn't compress as much so it makes for a great engine spice.

it cleans your engine, adds compression and cools the intake charge down.

Brad
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Old 04-15-2002, 04:00 PM   #18
RawCode
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High EGT's are bad, they start to melt your valves. So if you have a Safeguard you kinda hafta balance how sensitive the J&S is, as if it retards too much, it drains power and puts your valves at risk. But if it isn't sensitive enough you crack a piston.

I personally would say turn the boost down if I have some knocking going on. As I would not have 95 octane everywhere I went. But you live on an island soooo... :P

RawCode
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Old 04-15-2002, 04:22 PM   #19
jeffg
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you should probably do the parallel fuel rail mod. that would help to eliminate the single piston starvation problem. if that is an issue here.

jeff
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