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Old 03-15-2009, 11:39 PM   #1
surfer5567
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Default Turbo choice questions

Hey so i FINALLY got my tax refund and a couple of things i am doing to my car are an sti diff/axles(already have the trans) and upgraded heads and turbo set up. I am looking for some suggestions reguarding the heads and turbo set up. would like to have a tad over 400hp on 91, with spool as close to my blouch 2.5r(3400rpm). so here are my questions

heads:
looking to rev up to 8k on an crawford s2 block w/ej205 heads. what should i do for valve train, cams, porting? not looking for a crazy set up, something that will support 400-500 hp. should i go to a different set of heads maybe?

turbo:
would LIKE to stay away from rotated as i already have 2 downpipes(cat/no cat) and dont want to buy 2 again, but if its necessary i am not against it. would like boost around 20-29psi(too much??). would like a dual bb turbo, oil and water cooled.

i have been looking at a slowboy gt-14, atp30r, ams rotated 30r kit.

any suggestions will be awesome. also any help on how to get spool up will help as well. reverse intaken mani(can i keep my ac??), meth, twinscroll? any other help?


thanks everyone for all the help so far!!! its deffinately coming in handy
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:04 AM   #2
reddevil
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Search heads before turbo for 8k....
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:09 AM   #3
surfer5567
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Originally Posted by reddevil View Post
Search heads before turbo for 8k....
what do you mean? somewhat vague there....
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:06 AM   #4
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will your head support 8k Bigger question, will your crank still oil @ that rpm?
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfer5567 View Post
Hey so i FINALLY got my tax refund and a couple of things i am doing to my car are an sti diff/axles(already have the trans) and upgraded heads and turbo set up. I am looking for some suggestions reguarding the heads and turbo set up. would like to have a tad over 400hp on 91, with spool as close to my blouch 2.5r(3400rpm). so here are my questions

heads:
looking to rev up to 8k on an crawford s2 block w/ej205 heads. what should i do for valve train, cams, porting? not looking for a crazy set up, something that will support 400-500 hp. should i go to a different set of heads maybe?

turbo:
would LIKE to stay away from rotated as i already have 2 downpipes(cat/no cat) and dont want to buy 2 again, but if its necessary i am not against it. would like boost around 20-29psi(too much??). would like a dual bb turbo, oil and water cooled.

i have been looking at a slowboy gt-14, atp30r, ams rotated 30r kit.

any suggestions will be awesome. also any help on how to get spool up will help as well. reverse intaken mani(can i keep my ac??), meth, twinscroll? any other help?


thanks everyone for all the help so far!!! its deffinately coming in handy
get GT35R cams, porting, supertech valvetrain, supertech valves, fully build sleeved block, AEM EMS, fuel rails, Koyo Radiator, Hondata Heatshield Intake Gasket , 08 STi 11mm oil pump, Crucial Racing Thermostat, NGK 1 step colder plugs, Gates Kevlar Reinforced Timing Belt, Ixiz Concept Air/Oil Separator, etc

build everything once so you dont have to pay twice better to save your money and do all at once
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:21 AM   #6
surfer5567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fongers View Post
will your head support 8k Bigger question, will your crank still oil @ that rpm?
thats the thing i dont know. will my crank be able to handle it if i upgraded to the new 12mm oil pump? i know i have to build the heads to go that high. 8k rpm is just a "wish" not a must. 7.5k would be nice.
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garboplateNY88 View Post
get GT35R cams, porting, supertech valvetrain, supertech valves, fully build sleeved block, AEM EMS, fuel rails, Koyo Radiator, Hondata Heatshield Intake Gasket , 08 STi 11mm oil pump, Crucial Racing Thermostat, NGK 1 step colder plugs, Gates Kevlar Reinforced Timing Belt, Ixiz Concept Air/Oil Separator, etc

build everything once so you dont have to pay twice better to save your money and do all at once
i think a 35r would be too laggy/big for what i am looking for. would like full spool before/around 3500rpm. i should have put my mods in that i have already:
Crawford Performance 2.5 liter STI shortblock with forged pistons, crankshaft, and rods(s2 series)
stock 02 wrx heads
6-speed USDM STI transmission
New Blouch Dominator 2.5 turbo
XS Power front mount intercooler
Power Enterprise Super Timing Belt
Vishnu Underdrive Pulley
DW 850 fuel injectors
Walbro fuel pump
Crawford TGV Delete
Spiider DCCD controller
Exedy stage 1 clutch
Koyo aluminum radiator with SAMCO silicone radiator hoses
New Cobb air intake
Crawford Performance air-oil separator
Helix exhaust uppipe and downpipe
MRT 3 catback exhaust
New Interstate battery
Group-N motor and tranny mounts
TIC hardened shifter bushing
L&E Fabrication quick steering column
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:27 AM   #8
garboplateNY88
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfer5567 View Post
thats the thing i dont know. will my crank be able to handle it if i upgraded to the new 12mm oil pump? i know i have to build the heads to go that high. 8k rpm is just a "wish" not a must. 7.5k would be nice.
my car revs 7,800 rpms I have stock cams stock porting supertech valvetrain + valves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ilL6...e=channel_page
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:28 AM   #9
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8000rpm isn't that high, some stock STi models rev to that, and his crawford bottom end should support at least 8000rpm.

The real question is why? Firstly your Ej205 heads will severly limit airflow to 8000rpm, secondly, even if you get them ported and install suitable valvetrain and cams, the turbos you listed don't actually make power all the way to 8000rpm.

A GT30R will generally peak around 5500rpm and then power will drop off after 6000rpm, so there is no real need to spin the engine to 8000rpm. Even a GT35 making 600whp starts to drop off at after 6500rpm - and that's not even looking at the torque that is dropping off even faster.

So again, I ask why you would want to run to 8000rpm?

If topspeed's 600whp car, doesn't need to rev to 8000rpm, do you really need to?
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Old 03-16-2009, 11:52 AM   #10
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The AMS rotated setup being more efficient, I would choose that for making good power on 91.
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Old 03-16-2009, 12:13 PM   #11
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my main concern with the rpm is to have more rpm to improve my track times. i figured that extra 500-800 extra rpm would save me a shift at the track(and by track i mean road course/autox). if the general concensus is that i wouldnt need high rpm, then that is fine. is there any way to make the ej205 heads flow better up top so that the power doesnt fall off so much or should i switch to something bigger(if so, what heads?). or is it nessecary for a large turbo?

thanks everyone for the awesome info!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsti.l View Post
8000rpm isn't that high, some stock STi models rev to that, and his crawford bottom end should support at least 8000rpm.

The real question is why? Firstly your Ej205 heads will severly limit airflow to 8000rpm, secondly, even if you get them ported and install suitable valvetrain and cams, the turbos you listed don't actually make power all the way to 8000rpm.

A GT30R will generally peak around 5500rpm and then power will drop off after 6000rpm, so there is no real need to spin the engine to 8000rpm. Even a GT35 making 600whp starts to drop off at after 6500rpm - and that's not even looking at the torque that is dropping off even faster.

So again, I ask why you would want to run to 8000rpm?

If topspeed's 600whp car, doesn't need to rev to 8000rpm, do you really need to?
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:55 PM   #12
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That much HP is not feasible for a 'track' (read curvies) car. If get anti lag is you must get a 35r+ or else you will end up slower, especially on smaller tracks.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:24 PM   #13
305mouse
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06-07 WRX heads should work good. I think the 2.0 heads won't flow enough. As far as turbo, what about a twinscroll or a Dom III? To help with lag, a 3 port boost solenoid and a EWG set up should help those.
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:20 PM   #14
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Watch out, the SBR turbos can make big power but don't spool as fast, especially the 14 (I had one before). I'm back to a 20g now and it runs just fine... considering a Dom3 or HTA green if I wanna go EWG.
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Old 03-16-2009, 08:20 PM   #15
surfer5567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 305mouse View Post
06-07 WRX heads should work good. I think the 2.0 heads won't flow enough. As far as turbo, what about a twinscroll or a Dom III? To help with lag, a 3 port boost solenoid and a EWG set up should help those.
i will look into the 06-07 wrx heads and see what i can find. what i was thinking, was an el header to an ewg up pipe and dom 3. would that potentially put me at 400 on 91 on a mustang dyno? also, what does a 3 port boost soledoid do?
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Old 03-16-2009, 08:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Fongers View Post
Watch out, the SBR turbos can make big power but don't spool as fast, especially the 14 (I had one before). I'm back to a 20g now and it runs just fine... considering a Dom3 or HTA green if I wanna go EWG.
ok i will stay away from the sbr turbos. will look at the hta green as i have not heard of that one.
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fongers View Post
That much HP is not feasible for a 'track' (read curvies) car. If get anti lag is you must get a 35r+ or else you will end up slower, especially on smaller tracks.
I'm in no way suggesting so - the dyno was used to illustrate that even with 600whp you don't need to spin the engine to 8000rpm

If you are looking to get into auto-x, you really should be spending money of your suspension and braking setup. Good coilovers, swaybars, bracing, brakes etc will be much more beneficial to auto-x, and can make a low powered car perform faster then a high powered car with poor suspension.

Get that sorted then focus on power mods that will increase low-mid range torque and power to get you moving.
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:33 AM   #18
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A 3 port boost solenoid helps with boost creep, helps build boost faster and helps hold a higher peak. A must for any non oem turbo and even a great thing for any factory turbo. The car needs to be tuned for it, but you'll have to tune anyways for a different turbo. AWDtuning just had a group buy on Grimmspeeds new 3 port that went for $89.95 shipped. I think normal pricing is about $120 or maybe a little less.
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Old 03-17-2009, 02:40 PM   #19
surfer5567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsti.l View Post
I'm in no way suggesting so - the dyno was used to illustrate that even with 600whp you don't need to spin the engine to 8000rpm

If you are looking to get into auto-x, you really should be spending money of your suspension and braking setup. Good coilovers, swaybars, bracing, brakes etc will be much more beneficial to auto-x, and can make a low powered car perform faster then a high powered car with poor suspension.

Get that sorted then focus on power mods that will increase low-mid range torque and power to get you moving.
im mostly looking to do track days. i already have a fairly extensive mod list for my suspension. this is why i am mainly focusing on power/rear diff/axles.

Wheels and Brakes
Enkei RPF 1 wheels (17 x 7.5)
Hankook Ventus RS2 high performance tires with 5,000 miles (size 235-40-17)
Stoptech ST-40 Big Brake Kit in the front
Quantum Motorsports brake duct cooling kit
New Axxis Ultimate ceramic kevlar brake pads front and rear
Stainless steel brake lines front and rear

Front suspension
KW V3 coilovers
Whiteline 22mm sway bar,
Poltec endlinks
Whiteline balljoint extender kit
Whiteline anti-lift kit
Noltec camber and caster plates
STI replica front strut bar
Paranoid Fabrication cowl stays

Rear suspension
KW V3 Coilovers
Group-N coilover tophats
Progress adjustable rear sway bar (24mm max)
Helix endlinks
STI lateral links
Group-N bushings on both ends of trailing arms
STI replica rear strut bar
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Old 03-17-2009, 02:41 PM   #20
surfer5567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 305mouse View Post
A 3 port boost solenoid helps with boost creep, helps build boost faster and helps hold a higher peak. A must for any non oem turbo and even a great thing for any factory turbo. The car needs to be tuned for it, but you'll have to tune anyways for a different turbo. AWDtuning just had a group buy on Grimmspeeds new 3 port that went for $89.95 shipped. I think normal pricing is about $120 or maybe a little less.
hmmmm ill look into it. cant hurt right?
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Old 03-18-2009, 04:12 PM   #21
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bump, looking at picking up a atp3071r w/tial 44 ewg. would this put me where i want to be or still too small?
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:49 PM   #22
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Gonna be close, depends on meth or no?
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:20 PM   #23
surfer5567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fongers View Post
Gonna be close, depends on meth or no?
id prefer no meth. i read somewhere about a gt50 or something along those lines. anyone have any input on that? i was thinking the blouch 3.0 but it doesnt seem like it will reach the power i am looking for.
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:33 PM   #24
surfer5567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fongers View Post
Gonna be close, depends on meth or no?
what about a atp3076 w/ .82 ar? would that be a better choice? also are these atp turbos nice?

i was checkin out the full race 1.5 scroll turbo kit w/ a 30r and that looked NICE....but 5k??? little steep. anyone else make anything like that?
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Old 03-19-2009, 08:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfer5567 View Post
im mostly looking to do track days.
our Full-Race Twinscroll 35 kit is designed specifically for your application and the outlined engine build. I recommend this kit with either twinscroll garrett 35R or borgwarner S300SX 83-75, both would be fantastic performers on the circuit and dancing around the cones. If you want to save some $$, the bw kit with tial 38mm gates is a good choice

here is a dynoplot:



and if you have some time to do some reading:


http://www.full-race.com/modified08/

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...ut-5-24-a.html
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