Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 29, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-19-2009, 04:10 PM   #1
JT's06sti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126247
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: pittsburgh area
Vehicle:
06 sti
wrb

Default p0304 misfire code on startup/idle...new motor

is my timing belt off a tooth??? i just got my new motor finally in and during the first start it idled and sounded great for atleast 3-5 minutes...after it warmed up i notised it started idleing alitte rough and got the code p0304 misfire cyl #4... i have a wideband and the A/Fs are flopping prettyy bad when the idle is bogging ...

i reused my timing belt(only 17k miles) and it was my first timing belt install...im pretty sure it was good, but i hear about the 1 tooth problems

what else could cause this?? the heads are stock...

can anyone guide me on things to check?

update: im also getting code PFFFE and its stumpling so its def missing...(after searching theres no real conclusdion to PFFFE code other than pending codes)

i pulled the plug from #4 looked really black all around the middle and outside and the very tip was alittle white and clean... while i had one out i figured id do the compression check and it was 120 psi (keep in mind this is a brand new block that has 0 miles) before i could check the rest i had to go to work and havent got to move the plug /pack/injector or finish the test...im gonna redo it all this week..

also, can bad gas be the culprit? when i parked the car last year i made sure i was almost outta gas (the light was on) so the remaining gallon or so was left in my tank for a year and i then dumped 4 gallon of 93 in it before starting it...

and the injectors are PE 850s,plugs ngk -1
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by JT's06sti; 03-21-2009 at 09:44 PM.
JT's06sti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 06:12 PM   #2
JT's06sti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126247
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: pittsburgh area
Vehicle:
06 sti
wrb

Default

fouled plug????
JT's06sti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 09:24 PM   #3
yarrgh
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80465
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Aurora, CO
Vehicle:
2001 2.5RS
Black Diamond Pearl

Default

compression test
yarrgh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 10:39 PM   #4
Mycues1982
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 86995
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle:
2005 Tacoma

Default

move the coil pack to another cylinder and see if the misfire follows. If not try doing that with the injector.
Mycues1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 12:47 AM   #5
benw
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103320
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oklahoma City
Vehicle:
2005 wingless
aspen white

Default

I'm having the same issues, but the car is tuned and running well. it stumbles badly during cold start, thanks to the porting and TGV deletes, but smoothes out once the engine warms up. once every 2-3 days a misfire CEL will pop. It was #1 then #2 then 1 and 2 now it's random on all cylinders.
benw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 03:46 PM   #6
JT's06sti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126247
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: pittsburgh area
Vehicle:
06 sti
wrb

Default

it might be the injector...these 850s have been sitting in my garage in a ziplock for a year now, i prolly shoulda cleaned em before putting em in...

ill try the coil pack and do a compression test and im gonna change the plugs...

i reused my old ones (ngk -1) bc they had less than 3k miles on em.. i figured after break in id put the new ones i have in...

Benw...my issue is alittle differant i think...mine fires up cold perfect..(well maybe not now, i havent started it cold again yet) i also have my tgvs done, but they were done before i did the motor and i NEVER had a issue with them..
but the first start it fired up and purred steady sounded great (had a oil leak, and shut er off) later i restarted it and it ran perfect for atleast 5 minutes maybe even 10 after it completely warmed up i noticed the check engine light on and noticed the idle was going from 1k down to 500 and back up not steady up and down but often stumbling and boging going really rich then really lean... i reset the check engine light and restarted it and it did it agin fairly quick....

what i did notice when i had the plugs out on the other side before i started it the second time(it only ran for 1 minute the first start b4 i saw the leak) is that the plugs were VERY black and the passside rear cyl (sorry i always forget the #'s) had oil in the threads, very small amount...

i had my old map (same injectors,bigmaf) altered for the break in... only changes were built motor,bigger turbo,rails and regulator... so i think the tune should be good just to start..
JT's06sti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 03:52 PM   #7
mick_the_ginge
Citizen Mick
 
Member#: 27646
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
2003 Sleeved 2.5
Oil Dry Sump Goodness

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT's06sti View Post
it might be the injector...these 850s have been sitting in my garage in a ziplock for a year now, i prolly shoulda cleaned em before putting em in...
.
PE 850's? I had an issue with a PE injector after it had been sitting in a bagy for a while (6 months) It was not firing correctly leaving me lean in one cylinder. Just a thought....
mick_the_ginge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 04:51 PM   #8
benw
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103320
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oklahoma City
Vehicle:
2005 wingless
aspen white

Default

that does sound different than me.

IIRC from talking to Deatschwerks they do not recommend using injectors that have been sitting for a long time. When I went to reinstall some old 740s back in the day, they had me run up to the shop so they could pulse them and ensure everything was working as intended.
benw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 09:23 PM   #9
JT's06sti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126247
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: pittsburgh area
Vehicle:
06 sti
wrb

Default

im getting the code PFFFE also...i didnt realize that was even a code untill doing some reaserch on the misfire im having...hopefully its a faulty injector....

i dont think just at idle i did any damage...right?
JT's06sti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 03:32 AM   #10
wadester
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 188054
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lawrence, KS
Vehicle:
05 STi Cosworth LB
FP Green 375whp

Default

I have been getting the same stuff. "Misfires" in all four cylinders, randomly. I'm also running the PE 850's, so if they are the problem you could always look into the 1000's that Tony at T1 is selling in his other thread. How much did you build the motor? Specs? I've been told and have read that my motor is just noisy and it throws off the knock codes incorrectly. Yours could be doing the same.

I would:
1) Make sure the injectors are solid (get them flow-tested if possible)

2) Double check your tune to make sure you didn't forget to calculate something into the equation. I don't know the specs so I can't speculate.

You shouldn't have done any damage at idle, I wouldn't think. Zero load is pretty easy on a motor IFF you have a reasonable tune to work with, lol.

Keep us posted, man. Good luck finding the culprit.
wadester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 02:48 PM   #11
JT's06sti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126247
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: pittsburgh area
Vehicle:
06 sti
wrb

Default

well the tune is shaky but should be ok... also ive been so busy i havent been up to check anything or finish the compression test...

i had a tune from before fpgreen, 850's, big maf...i called my tuner (its a 3.5hr drive) and what he did for me was i emailed my map to him and he altered it just for startup he said he pulled all the WGDC all to 0 and adjusted for my mods...im running the same injectors, i just added rails,fpr,turbo,second pump...i cant imagine the tune being that far off to where its doing this

also the motor at cold start rpms idles great at the 1.5k cold start (atleast it did) and after it warmed up the motor was aggressively shaking and bogging down around 500 rpms and back up to 1k and the AFRs were flopping all over the gauge so it was definatly missing..also i noticed the engine noise was a bit louder..i was expecting the motor to be alittle noisy the first startup but i was shocked how quite, absolutely NO piston noise. aafter it warmed up i started to hear some noise but nothing major or even loud enough to be heard inside the car... if the motor was idleing ok or not shaking like others it wouldnt bother me

also its not random, ive cleared the code and restarted the car while it was already warm, not again the next day...and the same code came up, when i reved the car to 2.2k(very slow) the lights were blinking and same code(cel and cruise)

how much should my base fuel press be???? and who does the injector testing thats affordable?

it might take me a few days to get top this, but ill post a update when i get a chance to do the tests that was recomended above...im now concentrating on the injector

also ,would it do this if i was 1 tooth off?

Last edited by JT's06sti; 03-23-2009 at 02:53 PM.
JT's06sti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 06:05 PM   #12
Fongers
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 118239
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Beijing and Venice Beach
Vehicle:
2002 Built Wagon
Wife- 2004 Outback SE

Default

Yeah, check the timing man, that sounds all janked up, perhaps worse than even a tuning issue.
Fongers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2009, 02:50 PM   #13
nova7176
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 202511
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Delta, PA
Vehicle:
2004 Subaru STI

Default

Had the same issue, ended up being a bad injector. I would run a compression test first,then swap plugs, then coils, then injector and you should locate whats the problem.
nova7176 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2009, 04:26 PM   #14
JT's06sti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126247
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: pittsburgh area
Vehicle:
06 sti
wrb

Default

sorry its been so long but i finally got a free moment to go up and check a few things

i did a compression test first... it was 122 , 117,120, 120

when i pulled the plugs they are all really BLACK..really really black and # 4 was black towards the bottom but white on the tip and really lite and clean on the very top so it was def lean...

i then put the number 4 plug in the front driverside (i always mix up the cyl numbers but i know #4, itts tapped with a egt)

i clerared the codes (p0304 and pfffe) and fired her up...ran PERFECT at cold start again at 1.5-2k rpms...till it warmed up and rpms dropped down to 1k and the problem started again ruff idle (it wasnt as bad this time, the motor didnt seem to shake but idle still flopped and afrs flopped when the rpms droped to 500 the AFR would go really rich in the 12s then as soon as it raised back down in the 15-17 range flopping around i knew it was doing it but the light didnt come on right away, i gave it a very small 2-2.3 rev and within 30 seconds the CEL came on

p0304 and p0303 and pfffe is the cylinder in front of 4 #3???

how do i check the timing without taking everything completely apart again???

i didnt swap coil packs because i honestly dont feel thats the problem (and i hate messing w #4, i got big hands,lol)

before i messed with the plugs , i cleared and restarted the car the first time it was started 2 or 3 times and the same #4 misfire...i swapped jkust the 2 plugs and got #3 and 4...

my next move is to pull the injectors and have them sent out for clean and testing...

i also just realized another problem...I HAVE HAD NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS WITH THIS BUILD, ILL BE NEVER DOING ANOTHER ONE MYSELF!

i had great oil pressure when i started the car, i was happy and never looked again at it till now, after it warmed up i noticed the oil pressure NEVER dropped

cold start pressure is around 83-90 psi...after warm it doesnt go below 70 (it drops to 70 when the motor bogs to 500 rpms..around 75-80 at idle and when i rev it just to around 2.5k it jumps to 90...the temp gauge is where i think was normal but its been sitting for almost a year so i cant really remember but over the first line and not to the second line(the coolant temp on the AP saying 150s i believe)

im running the rotella 15-40 diesel oil...im gonna drain it and try a thinner regular oil..that may be my problem..im also running a 08 sti 11mm pump...

also the gauge is BRAND new, its a omorri so i dont think the gauge is wrong...

Last edited by JT's06sti; 03-27-2009 at 04:34 PM.
JT's06sti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 02:34 PM   #15
JT's06sti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126247
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: pittsburgh area
Vehicle:
06 sti
wrb

Default

UPDATE:

i finally got up to mess around with it, swapping injectors,and plugs around....

i first took the rails off and using a battery i juiced the injectors to seehow they were spraying into a bucket....they all looked even and exactly the same so i swapped the around and reinstalled...

when i started it i noticed i heard a vacuum leak on my "cluster fu$k" of vacum lines..i have i line going to just the reg, and 1 line going to bov, but i have another thats has a bunch of tee's for all my crap..i ended up w 3 boost gauges, my gauge in pod,and then i got a TT that had one so i figured id miteaswell hook it up then another later when i got my eboost then i needed another for my meth kit and now another for my second pump..so thats alotta T's that accumulated over the 2 years, not all at once...

anyway, i unplugged all of them, (left the FPR and bov on obviously)... and IT DIDNT MISFIRE...it ran smooth untill it warmed then dropped to the 1k range idle and i figured it was gonna do it again but it held pretty steady for awhile, then the idle started flopping and actually stalled a few times but no misfire or shakes like it was and when i rev it its MUCH smoother and steady...i remember when it was bogging before on eboost the vaccuum was -14 and going down to 8,(im pretty sure thats in/hg) so it was def leaking pretty bad..would that cause the misfires? also, at idle it was VERY rich 12's on my wideband and steady getting alittle richer then it bogs, it seemed like it was flooding out..when it was misfireing the idle was flopping steady and the afrs was flopping completely as rich as it went and down to lean as it went...its now more steady untill it almost stalls...it ran for atleast 5-10 mins no misfire code, b4 it was taking less than 2 mins and throwing a light...

ALSO THE OIL PRESSURE DROPPED TO THE 50 RANGE...it took alot longer than i thought for it to drop..the accessport was reading -7.6_8.2(psi) vaccum and coolant temps of 189...

are those normal??

i tried searching and im not coming up with aaccurate "what they should be"

whats the base fuel pressure w and w/o line connected???

how much vaccum at idle should i have?
JT's06sti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2009, 06:54 PM   #16
flycaster
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60142
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bend, OR
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
Grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT's06sti View Post
how much vaccum at idle should i have?
Once the car was broken in, my built block hot idle steadied up @ 18-18.5 inches, but I'm at almost 4K' elevation. Sea-level, that'd be in the 19-20 inch range. Don't even bother to look when it's cold or if the rings haven't seated yet; it'll scare the piss out of you if you're using forged pistons set to fairly loose clearance.
flycaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 03:01 AM   #17
benw
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103320
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oklahoma City
Vehicle:
2005 wingless
aspen white

Default

I have about minus 14 to 16 in/hg cold, when it gets nice and hot I have 20 to 22. 1000 ft elevation. when cold if you rev it will go as low as 20, when hot and you rev it goes as low as 24-25.
benw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
P0304- Misfire on cylinder 4 Rudywrx04 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 6 05-26-2009 03:56 PM
Regular misfires codes p0301-p0304 Chas Metivier Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 12 04-03-2008 03:40 PM
Misfire code, stumbling idle, help BLACK02WAGON Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 16 06-25-2005 05:44 PM
HELP - CEL P0302 and P0304 = Misfire on Cyl 2 and 4! dexterous Normally Aspirated Powertrain 8 04-14-2005 11:38 PM
00' RS-New motor CEL Code = Misfire jelton Normally Aspirated Powertrain 3 10-09-2004 03:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.