Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 25, 2016
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-20-2009, 08:16 PM   #1
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default timing belt on 95 Legacy 2.2L

so I only had myself doing this and no one to hold the brakes... I put the car in 5th and pulled the ebrake up.. went to turn the crank bolt and the car is moving backwards with every pull

I would of did the bump start but my breaker bar is too short and I have nothing to extend it (it's a 15" bar)

almost they must salt like mad in MI.. I snapped off the bolts that hold the timing belt covers.. the bolt and the anchor came out as one peace.

also I think the timing has jumped I had a missed shift today and I caught it at 6500 (red line is 6K) I still can't figure out if it's the combination of the IAC or the knock sensor but this is the 2nd time the car has died on the hill.. and this is at a stand still with my foot on the brake. The idle gets really bouncy.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 03-20-2009, 10:27 PM   #2
ballitch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 74907
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: salem, OR
Vehicle:
98 cam'd EJ251
Wrx Tranny,slowr than ish

Default

Try using some wheel chocks next time. But if your idle is crappy and the car doesnt seem to be running right you could be a tooth off. If you have a junkyard near you, you could try getting some different timing belt covers.

Did you make sure that all the vacuum hoses are plugged in the right sensors? Are all the vacuum lines plugged in? If your knock sensor is cracked you should get a new one. As long as you didnt adjust anything the car should be just the same as before. Hate to say it, but your going to have to check the timing belt and possibly redo it.

~Josh~
ballitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 03:29 AM   #3
STiluv55
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 206102
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SE WI
Vehicle:
1999 2.5 RS
Black

Default

air tool if what you're saying is trying to break the crank bolt loose. is that what you're saying? i'll never understand why people still don't use air tools.....they were invented for a reason, work smarter not harder
STiluv55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 06:39 AM   #4
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballitch View Post
Try using some wheel chocks next time. But if your idle is crappy and the car doesnt seem to be running right you could be a tooth off. If you have a junkyard near you, you could try getting some different timing belt covers.

Did you make sure that all the vacuum hoses are plugged in the right sensors? Are all the vacuum lines plugged in? If your knock sensor is cracked you should get a new one. As long as you didnt adjust anything the car should be just the same as before. Hate to say it, but your going to have to check the timing belt and possibly redo it.

~Josh~
uhmmm well I will be replacing the timing belt because I need to do the water pump as well as the crank seals and cam seals.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 06:40 AM   #5
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STiluv55 View Post
air tool if what you're saying is trying to break the crank bolt loose. is that what you're saying? i'll never understand why people still don't use air tools.....they were invented for a reason, work smarter not harder

I know, I know... i ran out of cash before I could get the tools but I plan on getting some over the summer. because I need to remove the rear diff.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 06:56 AM   #6
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

what I saw just getting to the covers.. would the timing belt jump ahead? I thought the cam would jump ahead of the belt if it missed some teeth.

SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 06:57 AM   #7
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

Dp..................
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 07:08 AM   #8
loccomoffo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 200891
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Western Australia
Vehicle:
1995 Impreza EJ18
Shabby White

Default

To break the crank bold, put a socket on it with a sliding T bar. Then put a pipe onto the bar. Rest the pipe on some wood supported on a block of wood somewhere in the engine compartment (rags under the block should stop scratching). PIPE MUST BE ON RIGHT HAND SIDE OF CAR WHEN FACING IT. Now get in the car and crank the engine on/off. Wola!!! crank nut is loose .

Airtools are for ppl with shiny workshops hehehehe
loccomoffo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 07:17 AM   #9
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

ha that's the thing I had no pipe to put over the bar so I was SOL... I had the wood and everything.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 09:16 AM   #10
loccomoffo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 200891
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Western Australia
Vehicle:
1995 Impreza EJ18
Shabby White

Default

Ahhhh that's what you meant by bump start, I get you now

I can forgive not having air tools, but the pipe is the next holiest tool after the hammer, tsk! tsk! tsk!
loccomoffo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 09:40 AM   #11
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

think the breaker bar would rip from my hands if I held it while starting? Ha maybe I can find a long metal pipe in the basement...

I need to invest in a longer breaker bar.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 07:52 PM   #12
loccomoffo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 200891
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Western Australia
Vehicle:
1995 Impreza EJ18
Shabby White

Default

Have you got a big wooden block about the height of the crank bolt? Actually adjustable car stands might do the trick. Put the braker bar on the crank nut, mount bar in such an angle that the end of it is 3 inches above the wood/stand and bump start the car. The 15 inches and the whack might just do it
loccomoffo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 07:57 PM   #13
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Exclamation

haha I forgot about this.. crank pulley has long been off.. I found in the basement a 5 Ft long copper pipe so I used my dremel to cut it to 30" and with the brakes on it came off in one pull

Now my issue now is trying to get the new timing belt on.. I replaced all the idlers however the sproket next to the water pump is hanging me up I can't get the belt on the sprocket under it.. Should it be a tight fit? because right now the car as already won with getting blood twice from me

also it caused my driver side cam to be off which is a pure bitch to turn.. and if you do get it to turn it jumps past the alignment mark.

I very really do not want to reuse the old belt.

I can grab a picture right now of how it looks.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 08:13 PM   #14
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

Where i'm stuck at now.. which is really the last part I need to get done with so I can put everything back and try to get the driver side cam to line back up.

SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 09:42 PM   #15
bartails
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 206303
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2001 Forester
Red

Default

I usually start with the pass. side of the engine, and if the engine is lined up right, you can rotate the other cam without worry. Take up all the slack with the driver side cam on top to give you enough slack to work it onto all the pulleys on bottom. Then rotate the cam to give slack to the tensioner pulley, so you can slip the compressed tensioner behind the belt. put the tensioner bolts in but not tight-then with a prybar push the tensioner tight as you tighten the first tensioner bolt.
bartails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 09:44 PM   #16
bartails
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 206303
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2001 Forester
Red

Default

i see you have the tensioner still in place. this is probably part of your problem. once you remove it, you need to compress it (SLOWLY) with a c-clamp or vise, and use a pin or drill bit to hold it, in the holes.
bartails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009, 10:18 PM   #17
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartails View Post
i see you have the tensioner still in place. this is probably part of your problem. once you remove it, you need to compress it (SLOWLY) with a c-clamp or vise, and use a pin or drill bit to hold it, in the holes.
it's hard to see because of this crappy camera but it's pushed in and held in with a black hex wrench all I need to do is pull it.

btw I had to remove the sprocket idler (next to the water pump to the left) and I got the belt on that way.. it was a tight fit but it worked.. also things seem to be aligned I wont start it up till tomorrow since I can't see crap out right now




SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 04:01 AM   #18
loccomoffo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 200891
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Western Australia
Vehicle:
1995 Impreza EJ18
Shabby White

Default

Before trying to turn the engine on, turn teh crank 720degs first to make sure all is woring well. Good habit after palying with the timing belt even if the engine is a non interference design

I remember I buggered my mates Yamah V twin engine once by not cranking 720degs first... you learn from your mistakes
loccomoffo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 08:30 AM   #19
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

rotating it 720 degs I will be looking to make sure the alignment marks still line up I take it?
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 09:22 AM   #20
Storm
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:
96L Most Over-
Developed Beater

Default

Yup, the timing marks should all line up on every other complete turn of the crank.

What I do when changing the belt is to leave the lower left idler off the motor. Route your belt as it should be....then put the last idler under the belt, near it's position and pull up on the belt so you can start the bolt. A 14mm socket on a short extension should be all you need to start the bolt by hand and not let it crossthread. Once you know all the bolts are torqued, pull the pin. This method has never let me down.

Double-triple check all the marks by handcranking 2, 4 or 6 turns before you call it good.

Jay
Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 10:02 AM   #21
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

crap so I put the pulley on and set my TQ wrench to 120Ft. Lb and went to crank.. no start.. took the pulley off and noticed the crank is off... ugh.. I have a question the white marks on my cams when they are lined up with the marks on the covers are the valves closed? I have to take the belt off again but should not be so bad this time around.. providing the cam wont spring around.

I don't know why someone marked the crank pulley with a mark that is no place near the mark on the crank it's self.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 11:51 AM   #22
Storm
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:
96L Most Over-
Developed Beater

Default

Just to make sure we're all on the same page, once the motor has been run, the white marks on the belt may never line back up to the marks on the cams and crank. I just noticed this in your pic above asking about the cam jumping.

For your other question, the passenger side cam is marked so all valves are closed when the mark is in position to the rear cover. The drivers side is not always closed. Some of the valves are open, which is why it's hard to position it just right and have it stay there.

Check the crank gear to make sure you're using the hashmark and not the arrow. Next, put the cam gear marks in position, route the belt so that the marks on the belt (if visible) are on the gear marks. This ensures you have the correct belt tooth count from the crank mark to each cam mark.

Doing these things will ensure the motor is correctly timed and any issues that follow will not be related to it.

Jay Storm
Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 12:01 PM   #23
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

the hash mark on the crank must be the white paint? I see the arrow but no other markings other then the white paint.

the crank is lined up just like the passenger side cam.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 01:58 PM   #24
Storm
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:
96L Most Over-
Developed Beater

Default

It depends, the color of paint may not always be white, your might be. When the hashmark is in the correct position, the keyway will be straight down (6:00) position wise. Again, use the hashmark to line up the crank, then position the cams in place. Route your belt, pull the pin, rotate by hand to confirm, then button it up....or start it without any accessories (if you put the crank pulley back on first).

Jay
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruImpreza_power View Post
the hash mark on the crank must be the white paint? I see the arrow but no other markings other then the white paint.

the crank is lined up just like the passenger side cam.
Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 03:25 PM   #25
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

Thanks guys for the help.. I will let the video speak for it's self

the biggest help was using spring loaded clamps on the cams at the TB alignment mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9ExOKtTfkg
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timing Belt on 98 Legacy Outback 2.5L CThompson58 Normally Aspirated Powertrain 2 03-19-2009 09:48 PM
Timing belt tension 2pc and 2.2L exhaust donut gavinl Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 0 11-12-2005 12:12 PM
Timing Belt on 2.2L JamesInKs Engine Management & Tuning 1 07-07-2005 12:57 PM
R&R of timing belt on '98 legacy in <3 hours... lag Legacy Forum 2 02-05-2005 12:33 PM
Changing Timing belt on 91 Legacy , need manual help ! Legacy Service & Maintenance 1 12-12-2001 05:54 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2016 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2016, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.