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Old 03-06-2009, 09:15 PM   #1
JamesWilson2
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Thumbs down Stock/ST fuel rule and new Shell Nitrogen Gasoline

So I've been doing a little bit of research, and turns out per the current wording of SCCA Solo Rule 3.6A, Shell Gasoline that contains Nitrogen is not currently legal.

Here is the press release on the new gas, which is now in all grades of their fuel-- http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...EC}&dist=msr_5

Here is the wording from the 2009 rulebook regarding 3.6A and 3.6B. Note that the Shell gasoline with Nitrogen is only legal in SP, SM, P, and M classes--

"3.6 FUEL
A. Stock and Street Touring Class vehicles will use service station
pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is “Federally
approved for use on public highways.” This includes the pump
fuel known as “E85", but does not allow racing-type fuels which
are available at service station pumps.

B. In addition to fuels which are allowed by 3.6.A, Street Prepared,
Street Modified, Prepared, and Modified class vehicles may use
diesel fuel or any grade of gasoline. Gasolines consist entirely of
hydrocarbon compounds. Gasoline may contain antioxidants,
metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors and lead alkyl compounds
such as tetraethyl lead. Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives
are prohibited, except for those originally present in service
station pump fuel.
Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing oil additives
are prohibited in two-cycle engine oiling systems."

For the new fuel to be legal, SCCA has to issue an update to FasTrack to allow the provision of 3.6B to be contained in 3.6A for Stock and ST. Until that time, technically it is illegal. With everyone spending hundreds of postings and nit-picking about the size of a hole drilled for a shock reservoir, and things like that that that do not affect performance, hopefully the SEB will quickly address this to prevent "issues".

Carry on!

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Old 03-06-2009, 09:38 PM   #2
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It seems pretty clear to me that if it's federally approved for use on public highways, it's legal. Section B says "In addition to fuels which are allowed by A, ....". A stands on its own, by my interpretation. I'm assuming Shell wouldn't be selling fuel that's not federally approved...

-Mike
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:41 PM   #3
JamesWilson2
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Right, but the additional wording in B would seem unnecessary if all of the provisions of A were met, correct? And if the additional wording of B is B-specific for those classes, then as it is not listed in A, it is therefor not allowed in A. Right?

I took logic in college, same class twice...not because I wanted to. Just help me think it through. haha

Section A says I can run gasoline, but not race gas. Doesn't say I cannot run Nitrogen, but SCCA's rules are pretty-- "unless is says you CAN, you can't".

Section B says I can run gasoline, and run gasoline with Nitrogen. Says I can specifically, so I can = SCCA happy. But only in SP/SM/P/Mod.

Right?

Last edited by JamesWilson2; 03-06-2009 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:24 PM   #4
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this is easy

Quote:
This morning at Shell stations across the U.S., consumers received a free fill-up with Shell Nitrogen

Quote:
Oxygen and/or nitrogen bearing additives
are prohibited, except for those originally present in service
station pump fuel
.

now since Shell is reformulating all its 'pump' fuels....it HAS to be legal
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWilson2 View Post
Right, but the additional wording in B would seem unnecessary if all of the provisions of A were met, correct? And if the additional wording of B is B-specific for those classes, then as it is not listed in A, it is therefor not allowed in A. Right?

I took logic in college, same class twice...not because I wanted to. Just help me think it through. haha

Section A says I can run gasoline, but not race gas. Doesn't say I cannot run Nitrogen, but SCCA's rules are pretty-- "unless is says you CAN, you can't".

Section B says I can run gasoline, and run gasoline with Nitrogen. Says I can specifically, so I can = SCCA happy. But only in SP/SM/P/Mod.

Right?
A is A, period. Nothing in B impacts A. The highlighted statement in B just says "you can't add this kind of additive, but it's allowed if it was there from the pump". There doesn't need to be wording like that for A, because all you can do under A is take gas from the pump.

-Mike
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Old 03-07-2009, 11:48 AM   #6
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Does SCCA really do fuel testing for SOLO? I wouldn't think there would be a budget for that.
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Old 03-07-2009, 01:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
Does SCCA really do fuel testing for SOLO? I wouldn't think there would be a budget for that.
Gives me an evil idea though.

Show up with legal fuel in white 5 gallon jugs with "racing fuel" written on them. While the competition is around fill up your car up while wearing a chemist smock, chem-resistant gloves, eye protection, and an air filter/respirator.
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Old 03-07-2009, 03:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
A is A, period. Nothing in B impacts A. The highlighted statement in B just says "you can't add this kind of additive, but it's allowed if it was there from the pump". There doesn't need to be wording like that for A, because all you can do under A is take gas from the pump.

-Mike
Concur with Mike. Your logic class(es) apparently didn't take. You're trying way to hard to read into this, James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWilson2 View Post
Here is the wording from the 2009 rulebook regarding 3.6A and 3.6B. Note that the Shell gasoline with Nitrogen is only legal in SP, SM, P, and M classes--

"3.6 FUEL
A. Stock and Street Touring Class vehicles will use service station
pump fuel only. Pump fuel is defined as that which is “Federally
approved for use on public highways.”
This includes the pump
fuel known as “E85", but does not allow racing-type fuels which
are available at service station pumps.
Shell sells service station pump fuel. Service station pump fuel is legal in Stock and Street Touring classes (and every other class, for that matter). End of story.

Pat Olsen
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Old 03-07-2009, 07:48 PM   #9
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its reads a legal. anything from a legit pump is OK. Shell is selling it to the public so u are good to go.
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:28 PM   #10
JamesWilson2
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Cool. Just did not want to unknowingly use something that is not approved.
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Old 03-08-2009, 06:43 PM   #11
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James, also the latest fastrack has a reminder:
Quote:
With regard to fuel, additives such as MTBE, ethanol, and methanol are considered to meet the requirement of 3.6.B, which states that such additives are only permitted if they are ones which are found in service station pump fuel as defined in 3.6.A.
(ref. 08-725)
--kC
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:15 PM   #12
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This is no big deal, as gasoline has had nitrogen in the detergent additives for decades now. All detergents have an amine group, which by definition, have nitrogen.
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:51 PM   #13
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^^ so nitrogen doesn't affect the car/tune/map in any way?
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:53 PM   #14
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Well....ya know.... turbo blue (100oct unleaded) is sold "at the pump" all over the nation...

would that be legal fuel for S and ST??

Quote:
but does not allow racing-type fuels which are available at service station pumps
I guess not...


but...


how does one know? TB doesn't smell like my 116 leaded go-juice does...
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GullyWagon07 View Post
^^ so nitrogen doesn't affect the car/tune/map in any way?
No, your car was tuned with fuel that had nitrogen in it. Unless it was on avgas or something like that. Not sure if the racing fuels have detergents, but I would guess they would.
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Old 03-24-2009, 02:22 PM   #16
JamesWilson2
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FWIW, the DS WRX was very very very happy on 30% blended E85 and the rest 93 octane pump gas
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