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Old 03-23-2009, 04:35 PM   #1
mxpunk
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Default No wonder Ej205's spin bearings..

Well, not sure how many have spun ej205's with stock ecu mapping but after spending the weekend doing some tuning and logging my car, i can see why these things spin bearings/seize up.

My total timing @ peak load on a STOCK map was 27 degrees on 93 octane.

WTF was subaru thinking??

I wonder if its really a bearing issue after all..

EDIT ~~ POTENTIAL INLET LEAK
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Last edited by mxpunk; 03-26-2009 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:54 PM   #2
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At the last tuning session I went to in Austin, we had an 09 wrx spin a bearing. Sucks.
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:40 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post

WTF was subaru thinking??

I wonder if its really a bearing issue after all..
Meeting Federal Emissions........
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:59 PM   #4
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Meeting Federal Emissions........
how often are cars run @ peak load? its retarded..
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:04 PM   #5
scby rex
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Originally Posted by j.r View Post
At the last tuning session I went to in Austin, we had an 09 wrx spin a bearing. Sucks.
not a ej205^^

Stupid 09 wrx, emissions changed in 09 also, so they lean out on the onset of boost...then pop! My buddy lost one at 4k stock. The one in austin popped b/c they tried to lod one run after doing a dp...then pop, instead of flashing a richer map BEFORE the actual tuning started.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:48 PM   #6
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how often are cars run @ peak load? its retarded..
With (RETARDO'S) like me....... EVERY CHANCE I GET..
That's why the first thing I do is re-tune, but we don't have to worry about passing emissions either.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:37 PM   #7
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That wasn't a stock map then bud.. Sorry... Stock mapping a 16bit sees about 2.0 g/rev load at peak torque and falls to 1.75 g/rev at redline..

Tell me at peak torque you were hitting 27* of timing.. Was not stock..




Total timing for a 16bit 205 - including advance IFFF your IAM was at 16..

You didn't have a stock map - or you have a HUGE 80+mm intake...

I'm not trying to be a dick - but I can assure you at peak load you ARE NOT seeing 27* of timing on the stock map. Not only that I can assure you - your not holding 2.0 g/rev on anything less than 14psi of boost at redline - which itself is not easy..

You either have a huge intake - NON- stock map...

-Jerod

And on 93 I could run 30-31* of timing at redline with the stock turbo and 13psi or so boost. I could run about 14* at peak torque...

Peak torque with a stock turbo is between 3800-4200rpms and peak hp is between 5800 and 6400 rpms... Max load will always be at or close to peak torque..

Last edited by JSarv; 03-23-2009 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:55 PM   #8
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on my hybrid wrx.. i hit 20psi all the way.. with a vf39.. 11.1a/f and 10-11degrees on peak and 18-20 at redline.. hauls ass ... blew 3rd gear last night when doing a
3rdgear pull.. lol my loads are up to 3.71 the max i saw.. by red i have 2.75..
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:02 AM   #9
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Load is honestly irrelevant... Intake size and scaling can blow it out of proportion..

If I scale my injectors to 700cc's and scale my maf to meet my fueling needs I see 3.80-3.90 load (4.0 being max) and 300 g/s by 5000 rpms.. but I only see 4.74v on a 65mm or stock size intake...

You might run a txs intake (which is actually smaller than 65mm or a aem intake which actually is 65mm but reacts like a smaller piping diameter (I think because of turbulent airflow and MAF positioning)

I only refer to his load - because it is "stock" and "stock" maf scaling (which I use) on a stock boost should see around 2.0 load at peak torque..

If you are at that load - what intake are you running? What maf v do you see?

-Jerod
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:05 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by j.r View Post
At the last tuning session I went to in Austin, we had an 09 wrx spin a bearing. Sucks.

i was there. my o4 wrx spun bearings and so did the grey wrx before me on sunday.that sucked.i'm getting a motor built right now. i hear that spun bearings are pretty common.
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:45 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
Well, not sure how many have spun ej205's with stock ecu mapping but after spending the weekend doing some tuning and logging my car, i can see why these things spin bearings/seize up.
My total timing @ peak load on a STOCK map was 27 degrees on 93 octane.
WTF was subaru thinking??
I wonder if its really a bearing issue after all..
It would appear from your profile that you have a 2002 WRX. I see that not many of the more popular people in BMD have not responded, in part because the starting topic is somewhat incoherent.

Yes, a stock 02 WRX car can run 27 degrees at timing at higher rpm. As mentioned below a happy 02 can actually run a bit more. It is also obvious from just spending a few seconds looking at the 2002 rom that a stock car is not going to run 27 degrees of timing at peak load.

It was suggested that perhaps you have a different intake that is scaling the MAF, but that would not explain the claimed timing reference. As well, if it is true that you do have said aftermarket intake, your postulation about the stock tuning being problematic is, well, somewhat in error. The problem is in the person running the stock car on an aftermarket intake.

For those reading this thread, please spend some time reading other threads that can help you understand a bit more about tuning.

Any generic postulation about how 'XX' degrees of timing is somehow to blame for widespread bearing failure is a good indication that you should hit the 'next' button.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
That wasn't a stock map then bud.. Sorry... Stock mapping a 16bit sees about 2.0 g/rev load at peak torque and falls to 1.75 g/rev at redline..

And on 93 I could run 30-31* of timing at redline with the stock turbo and 13psi or so boost. I could run about 14* at peak torque...

Peak torque with a stock turbo is between 3800-4200rpms and peak hp is between 5800 and 6400 rpms... Max load will always be at or close to peak torque..
Correct.

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
That wasn't a stock map then bud.. Sorry... Stock mapping a 16bit sees about 2.0 g/rev load at peak torque and falls to 1.75 g/rev at redline..

Tell me at peak torque you were hitting 27* of timing.. Was not stock..




Total timing for a 16bit 205 - including advance IFFF your IAM was at 16..

You didn't have a stock map - or you have a HUGE 80+mm intake...

I'm not trying to be a dick - but I can assure you at peak load you ARE NOT seeing 27* of timing on the stock map. Not only that I can assure you - your not holding 2.0 g/rev on anything less than 14psi of boost at redline - which itself is not easy..

You either have a huge intake - NON- stock map...

-Jerod

And on 93 I could run 30-31* of timing at redline with the stock turbo and 13psi or so boost. I could run about 14* at peak torque...

Peak torque with a stock turbo is between 3800-4200rpms and peak hp is between 5800 and 6400 rpms... Max load will always be at or close to peak torque..
i was doing logging the other day and i hit a max g/rev of 1.4 and it was knocking real bad @ 5500-6K rpms until redline. no modifications other then up and down pipes (catless). my total timing w/ an IAM of 16 was 27 degrees, the map is stock too. i didnt see any errors with my boost either since i was hitting my target boost levels (stock)
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:51 PM   #13
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You have issues...

1.4 g/rev is WAY to low... Infact on stock maf scaling and intake I seen that at less than 10psi... I'll dig up a log if you want.

You have a leak between your turbo and maf sensor... I bet your also running so lean its gross...

Infact I got $10 that you have a leak - Don't drive it hard till its fixed or YOU will be replacing your engine soon...

Start with your intake box - your maf sensor could be loose... Check for cracks - good chance your stock turbo inlet has dry rotted and cracked...

^^^ Start there - don't drive it hard though - unless you have money for a shortblock... And then probably a long block because your egt's are probably so high your heads have cracked from the plug to your exhaust/intake valve ports....


-Jerod

Just for reference - g/rev = rpms/60/grams per second... meaning at peak torque - we'll say 4000 rpms - that means t 1.4 g/rev your moving 93 grams per second... meaning your around 3.6v on your maf sensor... Your target afr for that region is almost 13-1 afr... the stock map runs a bit leaner than given targets... In boost - thats bad... Very Very Very bad especially at 27* of timing... and anything over 0psi...
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:47 AM   #14
mxpunk
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You have issues...

1.4 g/rev is WAY to low... Infact on stock maf scaling and intake I seen that at less than 10psi... I'll dig up a log if you want.

You have a leak between your turbo and maf sensor... I bet your also running so lean its gross...

Infact I got $10 that you have a leak - Don't drive it hard till its fixed or YOU will be replacing your engine soon...

Start with your intake box - your maf sensor could be loose... Check for cracks - good chance your stock turbo inlet has dry rotted and cracked...

^^^ Start there - don't drive it hard though - unless you have money for a shortblock... And then probably a long block because your egt's are probably so high your heads have cracked from the plug to your exhaust/intake valve ports....


-Jerod

Just for reference - g/rev = rpms/60/grams per second... meaning at peak torque - we'll say 4000 rpms - that means t 1.4 g/rev your moving 93 grams per second... meaning your around 3.6v on your maf sensor... Your target afr for that region is almost 13-1 afr... the stock map runs a bit leaner than given targets... In boost - thats bad... Very Very Very bad especially at 27* of timing... and anything over 0psi...

The night I was doing pulls I hit a max load of 1.67 and my boost was building properly and tapering properly as well.

i made a mistake in my original post..1.4 was what i was seeing near the top of my pull.
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:51 PM   #15
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You should be closer to 1.9-2.0 on stock boost... Check for leaks before anything...

Your probably running lean to boot.

-Jerod
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