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Old 03-25-2009, 02:55 PM   #1
Yannerd
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Default OT: Do you believe in luck?

Paul and I are having a heated discussion, he says no such thing is luck you make your own, I beg to differ.

From my personal experiences based on my peers from college and the people around me, some people just happen to be at the right place at the right time and seem to get things handed to them (luck). Others have to work twice as hard to achieve the same things. Not that it's not achievable just happens to be bad luck.

It's like the whole thing with kids who are born to rich affluent families (though I think all North Americans are affluent compared to other places in the world) get things easier because their daddy does business with a guy who needs some help for his business. Luck. Some kid who doesn't have the same background has to REALLY shine in order to get noticed because in the real world it's all about who you know not what you know.

How many people can say they've never been shafted because of what the chinese call "Guanxi"?

On the same token there's people who are born into poverty... that's a sign of un luckiness. They didn't choose, they just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Old 03-25-2009, 02:58 PM   #2
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I totally believe in luck, but to me I think it is 70% Work + 30% Luck/Chance...

And yes networking and connection are really important in Asia, but also here in NA...
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:01 PM   #3
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i found a $50 bill... is that luck?
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:06 PM   #4
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^Nope, you had to go down and pick it up hahah
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:07 PM   #5
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I believe in luck...without luck, hard work can only get you so far...
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:08 PM   #6
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**** happens
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:26 PM   #7
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There's the statistical luck, as in some people get a favorable outcome just because it is not possible for everyone to have that same outcome.

There's the just plain unexplainable luck, like being born into a wealthy family

I guess you could say that in the end it is just a statistical outcome where you define the result as better than average.

I personally believe that Luck is a skill. If you try hard enough you will be lucky!
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:03 PM   #8
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Paul is just an unlucky cynic
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyazn911 View Post
I believe in luck...without luck, hard work can only get you so far...
Most definitely, you see it all the time, someone gets a job because they know somebody in the company. That sir is that factor I sum up to luck. You may be qualified and what not but you were unlucky that they had someone who applied for the job who is connected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notjustforshow View Post
There's the statistical luck, as in some people get a favorable outcome just because it is not possible for everyone to have that same outcome.

There's the just plain unexplainable luck, like being born into a wealthy family

I guess you could say that in the end it is just a statistical outcome where you define the result as better than average.

I personally believe that Luck is a skill. If you try hard enough you will be lucky!
That comes down to the whole power of attraction thing. Can't really call luck a skill though since that alone is an oxymoron. I think it all comes down to being at the right place at the right time, that doesn't require skill.

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Paul is just an unlucky cynic
She didn't let him pee in her butt again. Poor paul
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notjustforshow View Post
There's the statistical luck, as in some people get a favorable outcome just because it is not possible for everyone to have that same outcome.

There's the just plain unexplainable luck, like being born into a wealthy family

I guess you could say that in the end it is just a statistical outcome where you define the result as better than average.

I personally believe that Luck is a skill. If you try hard enough you will be lucky!
That's kind of what I was trying to get at, there are things you can do to better the odds for yourself, whether it be counting cards in a game of blackjack, or putting yourself out there to get recognized/for networking... which may/may not benefit you down the road.

Obviously there are people born into a wealthy family (ie. Paris Hilton) who reap the rewards with little to no effort, but that's due to the effort of her parents who established their name in the first place, the parents chose to have a child and thus the child benefits, I still don't call that luck.
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:44 PM   #11
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Nope.

It's about being in the right place, at the right time.
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:51 PM   #12
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I do not believe in it also..
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarpauld View Post
That's kind of what I was trying to get at, there are things you can do to better the odds for yourself, whether it be counting cards in a game of blackjack, or putting yourself out there to get recognized/for networking... which may/may not benefit you down the road.

Obviously there are people born into a wealthy family (ie. Paris Hilton) who reap the rewards with little to no effort, but that's due to the effort of her parents who established their name in the first place, the parents chose to have a child and thus the child benefits, I still don't call that luck.
Counting cards will increase your odds VERY marginally if at all statistics have shown. At the end of the day, you're still on your own. Still networking doesn't do **** when Bob's buddy is Joe who they like more than you because he's Bob's buddy.

As for being born into a wealthy family, the child is the lucky one, not the parents. You can't really look at it on a family unit basis but rather on an individual basis. Would you not agree that Paris Hilton could have been born into a poor family and she'd end up as trailor park trash? Or look at Pam Anderson.. TOTAL random luck that she was spotted at a lions game and became this huge star.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:00 PM   #14
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I really believe in Karma, more than luck.

Good things happen to good people.

That doesn't mean bad things never happen to good people, but the good far outweighs the bad.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:06 PM   #15
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I guess I'm looking at the bigger picture, sure it may be 'lucky' on an individual basis that this girl named Paris was born to the Hilton family, but it's not luck that the Hilton's had a kid and the kid gets to spend their money... Regardless if Paris was born to them or not, it doesn't matter, if it was a boy, he would've still had the same amount of money to throw around. It's still the same idea.

You can do stuff to get noticed at sporting events, I wore face paint and a jersey to a Canucks game and they put the spotlight on me for my 5 seconds of fame, wasn't exactly a huge deal. She also didn't have to get into the acting business. Furthermore, she used to be an attractive woman, that betters her odds, maybe she was dressed to get more attention too... and then she got a boob job and her popularity soared. I still think action + consequence are much more significant factors relative to 'luck'.

and I didn't say 'luck' doesn't exist, I just don't 'believe' in it since ts impact is miniscule enough to be negligible... aka. don't put your faith in lotto tickets.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannerd View Post
Or look at Pam Anderson.. TOTAL random luck that she was spotted at a lions game and became this huge star.
Yeah, luck. Spelled with two Ds.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarpauld View Post
I guess I'm looking at the bigger picture, sure it may be 'lucky' on an individual basis that this girl named Paris was born to the Hilton family, but it's not luck that the Hilton's had a kid and the kid gets to spend their money... Regardless if Paris was born to them or not, it doesn't matter, if it was a boy, he would've still had the same amount of money to throw around. It's still the same idea.

You can do stuff to get noticed at sporting events, I wore face paint and a jersey to a Canucks game and they put the spotlight on me for my 5 seconds of fame, wasn't exactly a huge deal. She also didn't have to get into the acting business. Furthermore, she used to be an attractive woman, that betters her odds, maybe she was dressed to get more attention too... and then she got a boob job and her popularity soared. I still think action + consequence are much more significant factors relative to 'luck'.

and I didn't say 'luck' doesn't exist, I just don't 'believe' in it since ts impact is miniscule enough to be negligible... aka. don't put your faith in lotto tickets.
Oh I'm not saying you should start doing superstitious **** and start buying lotto tickets because luck runs your life, I'm just saying that there's always that factor that we have no control over because of circumstances beyond our control (you like what I did there?) that results in things happening. We should do our best to mitigate those factors but at the end of the day it's like what Wizzelt said... **** happens. There's not a damn thing you can do about it. It plays not a HUGE part in your life but it does play a factor in it and you can't really just ignore it.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:25 PM   #18
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You create your own luck
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannerd View Post
Paul and I are having a heated discussion, he says no such thing is luck you make your own, I beg to differ.

From my personal experiences based on my peers from college and the people around me, some people just happen to be at the right place at the right time and seem to get things handed to them (luck). Others have to work twice as hard to achieve the same things. Not that it's not achievable just happens to be bad luck.

It's like the whole thing with kids who are born to rich affluent families (though I think all North Americans are affluent compared to other places in the world) get things easier because their daddy does business with a guy who needs some help for his business. Luck. Some kid who doesn't have the same background has to REALLY shine in order to get noticed because in the real world it's all about who you know not what you know.

How many people can say they've never been shafted because of what the chinese call "Guanxi"?

On the same token there's people who are born into poverty... that's a sign of un luckiness. They didn't choose, they just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
i have been working for the longest time to pay off debts and stuff...the debts are both a badge of pride for me and a *****ty situation cause i can manage both.

the job i have is based on connections, but it's not based on family connections. you can argue that every job out there is based on connections. the place i work at doesn't hire anybody that isn't recommended or referred to the manager. i think the argument here is against the system of being part of a larger community by yourself (working your ass off) or having a larger 'family clan' that sustains itself.

about 'guanxi'? if it's something based on family, then i have nothing of it. personal experiences and having to pay for everything in your life yourself does make you appreciate life and money more than just getting crap handed to you on a platter. in the long run, i rather have the pride and joy of working my ass off and fighting for something than the alternative.

sorry for my rant, but this thread did touch on a nerve of mine.

now back on the subject: i lost my wallet one day at school, and got it back less than an hour later. is that luck?
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:31 PM   #20
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Old 03-25-2009, 07:57 PM   #21
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In my opinion, luck and similar concepts are inventions of the human brain trying to rationalize a tremendously complicated and often seemingly arbitrary world.

I also think that, in general, people are far too quick to put daily events down to chance. For example, something like your car breaking down on the way to a big job interview. Many people would call that bad luck, but in reality it would have nothing to do with chance. If you had an accurate enough computer model of your particular car's engine, you could have accurately predicted the exact moment of failure long before it happened. Same goes for people who get burned on investments, or people who get laid off while others keep their jobs, or anything else unfortunate. There is always a causality for these types of events, even if the model is so complex that it would be unreasonable for one person to entirely understand it.

Even something that is picked "at random" has a predictable result if you understand all the variables. There is no such thing as a completely random computer generated number, nor are there completely random decisions made by people, nor are there complete random physical events out in the world. There is ALWAYS a seed variable or event or bias in the process that, if you were able to model out the ENTIRE system, would predict a specific result.



Having a rich family and then having things easier because you have a rich family isn't luck, that's called a social class structure.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:03 PM   #22
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^Well said. Me not good with words.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:19 PM   #23
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There is good luck and bad luck... but you cannot say anything about people being born into rich families as luck.


Lots of children born into rich families do not develop their own skills to envision a goal, devise a plan on reaching the goal, and successfully achieve the goal.

I feel that if they do not develop their own passion/drive for their own family business nor their own profession of interest, they become stuck in this "I use my parents' money to cover my own lack of self-worth".

Sure, they will look cool with the nice clothes, nice car, partying all the time. But it catches up. The kid will need to learn how to display responsibility, organization, and discipline to be able to keep up with what the parents have built up for the child, if not it will all be squandered within his/her generation, or if they are very rich, within a few generations.
Yeah so the kid is lucky to have money, but he's got a lot of pressure as well.... still lucky?

Lucky is being prepared at the moment opportunity knocks.


Do you call this luck?:


I found at a chevron gas station a wallet on the ground. It had $350 cash and two season ticket passes to canuck's games.

I managed to find the guy through his driver's license and business cards and returned everything. He wasn't very greatful, just took the wallet and left.

1 week later, I find 3 new clients for my personal training business that has been with me for over 4 years now, making me over 70g's in income and counting.

Is that luck?



Winning the lottery? Now that's luck.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspect View Post
In my opinion, luck and similar concepts are inventions of the human brain trying to rationalize a tremendously complicated and often seemingly arbitrary world.

I also think that, in general, people are far too quick to put daily events down to chance. For example, something like your car breaking down on the way to a big job interview. Many people would call that bad luck, but in reality it would have nothing to do with chance. If you had an accurate enough computer model of your particular car's engine, you could have accurately predicted the exact moment of failure long before it happened. Same goes for people who get burned on investments, or people who get laid off while others keep their jobs, or anything else unfortunate. There is always a causality for these types of events, even if the model is so complex that it would be unreasonable for one person to entirely understand it.

Even something that is picked "at random" has a predictable result if you understand all the variables. There is no such thing as a completely random computer generated number, nor are there completely random decisions made by people, nor are there complete random physical events out in the world. There is ALWAYS a seed variable or event or bias in the process that, if you were able to model out the ENTIRE system, would predict a specific result.



Having a rich family and then having things easier because you have a rich family isn't luck, that's called a social class structure.
Maybe that's what luck is... the infinite number of decision strings that all collide together to result in you making good/poor choices with the final result based on what occurs around you.
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:25 PM   #25
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There is chance and chaos, and it is up to you to intepret it anyway you like.
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