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Old 05-20-2013, 10:04 PM   #1
vicky_808
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Default Bucket size

I have gotten the gaps and did my math so I know what is needed for my new buckets for my valves. Now do I order up a size or down a size if the subaru buckets don't fit what I need. Do I order the bucket size up or down from what I need?

So if I need a 4.6590 bucket size but subaru only has 4.66 or 4.64 I am not sure which way to go on these? Any help would be great. Thanks
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:33 PM   #2
Juice66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_808 View Post
I have gotten the gaps and did my math so I know what is needed for my new buckets for my valves. Now do I order up a size or down a size if the subaru buckets don't fit what I need. Do I order the bucket size up or down from what I need?

So if I need a 4.6590 bucket size but subaru only has 4.66 or 4.64 I am not sure which way to go on these? Any help would be great. Thanks
Youll have to grind valves
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:44 AM   #3
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Youll have to grind valves
No grinding the valves are not required that is why they make buckets in different sizes. But thank you for the input.

I do not have any buckets that fall outside what is made by Subaru so with that all I have to do is measure the lash or gap at each valve then factor in the difference for intake and exhaust valves. Once I factor in this it gives me my new required bucket size.

There are a few buckets that fall in between what buckets are made by Subaru. So say I need a 4.62 bucket size but subaru only makes a 4.61 or 4.63.

So my question is should I order the bucket that is smaller or bigger since there is a (+/-) factor that I can play with.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:54 AM   #4
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A hair looser is prob better then tighter...

What are you building? what cams and what clearance are you trying to achieve?

Last edited by rexworx; 05-21-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:33 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by vicky_808 View Post
No grinding the valves are not required that is why they make buckets in different sizes. But thank you for the input.

I do not have any buckets that fall outside what is made by Subaru so with that all I have to do is measure the lash or gap at each valve then factor in the difference for intake and exhaust valves. Once I factor in this it gives me my new required bucket size.

There are a few buckets that fall in between what buckets are made by Subaru. So say I need a 4.62 bucket size but subaru only makes a 4.61 or 4.63.

So my question is should I order the bucket that is smaller or bigger since there is a (+/-) factor that I can play with.

No, he was right. I would suggest getting the valves cut to knock out that last bit of clearance you have left. machine shops can do this for you without an issue. Mark the valves with numbers and write down which number needs to be cut down by how much and the shop will do it for you.
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:18 AM   #6
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Guys, he's talking about an error of .001 mm, that's .000039 inches. It's not that critical...at a lash of ~.008", you're talking about an error of less than a half of a percent, assuming his measurements that got him to 4.6590 mm were even accurate to that level of precision, which they probably weren't.

Besides, lash targets aren't a set value anyway, they're a range...eg .007" to .009". With an acceptable range that's .002" wide, .000039" means less than nothing.

There's a reason Subaru only makes buckets in steps of .02 mm, because you don't need better accuracy than that.
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:32 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Guys, he's talking about an error of .001 mm, that's .000039 inches. It's not that critical...at a lash of ~.008", you're talking about an error of less than a half of a percent, assuming his measurements that got him to 4.6590 mm were even accurate to that level of precision, which they probably weren't.

Besides, lash targets aren't a set value anyway, they're a range...eg .007" to .009". With an acceptable range that's .002" wide, .000039" means less than nothing.

There's a reason Subaru only makes buckets in steps of .02 mm, because you don't need better accuracy than that.

THIS!

When I do buckets (and the customer has the budget and is willing to pay for the time spent) I shoot for just a tick more than the tight measurement with flexibility to go up to a tick above the nominal.

For example, if STi intake valve spec is .0079 with range of -.0024 and +.0016 here's what we get:

tight = .0055
nominal = .0079
loose = .0095

I shoot for .006 with an allowable range to .008.
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:36 AM   #8
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I think I was a bit too OCD while setting up clearance on my heads. haha
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:31 AM   #9
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You should err on the tighter side. You'll obviously get a little wear which will open up the clearance over time.
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:30 PM   #10
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I am leaning more toward the mallet bucket size for those that fall between two different buckets.

I had the heads built but the shop that did the work did not set the lash so I am having to do it now. The cams I am running are Kelford 272.

Oh yes FYI.. I am a chick..not some random dude.. LOL
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:01 PM   #11
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Great for you doing your own thing. s this going on the 11 sti or the Fozzy?

I love watching my girl friend school a bunch of guys are a meet, drive etc...
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_808 View Post
I am leaning more toward the mallet bucket size for those that fall between two different buckets.

I had the heads built but the shop that did the work did not set the lash so I am having to do it now. The cams I am running are Kelford 272.

Oh yes FYI.. I am a chick..not some random dude.. LOL
Be sure you do the sizing with the heads bolted down. I have found that the gap grows .001 to .002 from having the heads on the bench to having them bolted down.

FYI... guys in this area and the other good tech areas aren't really going to care if you're a chick as long as you can do the work. Now, venture into the less tech areas and you're in for an interesting time.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts

Be sure you do the sizing with the heads bolted down. I have found that the gap grows .001 to .002 from having the heads on the bench to having them bolted down.

FYI... guys in this area and the other good tech areas aren't really going to care if you're a chick as long as you can do the work. Now, venture into the less tech areas and you're in for an interesting time.
Are those buckets that get looser the ones on cylinder 3/4?
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_808 View Post
I have gotten the gaps and did my math so I know what is needed for my new buckets for my valves. Now do I order up a size or down a size if the subaru buckets don't fit what I need. Do I order the bucket size up or down from what I need?

So if I need a 4.6590 bucket size but subaru only has 4.66 or 4.64 I am not sure which way to go on these? Any help would be great. Thanks
Use significant figures...4.6590 is the same as 4.66 rounded to the nearest hundredth...

I have had my machine shop grind valves when the exact cam cap is not available...it just depends on how much labor the machine shop wants to do...

I also recommend rechecking lash after torquing the heads down...
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:42 PM   #15
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Are those buckets that get looser the ones on cylinder 3/4?
I can't remember off the top of my head. it was an informal experiment so I didn't pay attention to which they were just that they were bigger than when I sized on the bench.
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Old 05-27-2014, 08:24 AM   #16
Justin V
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I'm going to revive this to see if there is any consensus for my situation.

My numbers are in the early stages so bare with me.

Headgames did my heads but didn't set the lash because I was unsure of the cams I'd be using (264 lobes wiping).

I ended up with GSC s2's and didn't bother to check the lash while the heads were uninstalled as I had heard the measurements are more accurate when torqued to the block. (slap on the hand)

Prepped the block, installed heads, torqued to 100ft lbs/ 110 on the middle pairs (ARP 625's). I have 2 brand new 438 buckets from subaru (the thinnest they make) that I installed on each cylinder and measured the clearance with a feeler gauge.

From there, I pick the lash (was going to use the supplied values .008" intake and .010" exhaust), subtract that from my feeler measurement and add the difference to the 438 bucket to get my bucket size.

Problem:
Some of my intake clearances are less than .008" with the smallest bucket. I can't get a smaller bucket and don't want to pull the heads to get a few valves tipped.

Is there any alternative? Or should I even be worrying? I see TiC's post above says that they shoot for .006"-.008" and that .0055" is acceptable, but just considered tight.


My tightest is .005 on the RH intake closest to the cam gear. I have a few right on .008" and a couple at .006" and .007"

I didn't think to use the .0015 +.00X to find which side I am closer to. I can go back and do that on these tight ones.
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Old 05-27-2014, 09:40 AM   #17
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^^^^^
Which is why I have a spare block I bolt the head into when setting lash

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Old 05-27-2014, 11:21 PM   #18
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ExhausT

0.0138 +/- 0.00079


I didnt run mine tight because my motor isnt getting torn down anytime soon. After a bunch of miles my right bank exhaust valves have already tightened up much more than my intake valves. My original engine lost a valve like some high mileage ej20's do. If you had a honda or sohc subaru i can see why as they loosen with time but our clearances dont.
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:26 PM   #19
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I'm pulling the heads again and tipping the valves to assure I have some wiggle room should I need to adjust the lash down the road.

Too many are on the threshold of the thinnest bucket. With high lift cams I don't really want to take any additional material off the buckets.
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