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Old 03-25-2011, 10:57 AM   #2576
99STM
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Thanks for the help fellas, it is much appreciated. I will let you know how today turns out.
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Old 03-25-2011, 03:28 PM   #2577
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but its misfiring also. why? plugs, coil, fuel, compression. that is still an issue that really needs to be addressed. get it to not misfire and you will be a step ahead

really a general fuel delivery (up to the injectors) will no make one cylinder misfire. you need to go over that cylinder, replace plug with appropiate plug and gap, move coil from a non misfiring cylinder or non misfiring car and retest
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Old 03-25-2011, 03:43 PM   #2578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99STM View Post
Btw, the injector scalor is set pretty low. We checked for leaks the other night and couldn't see anything. All those others are definitely possibilities but I am going to put my money on the fuel pump.
the reason your injector scalar is low is 2 fold....

1 - E85.....one of the most common ways to tune e85 as a starting point is to simply mutiply the injector scalar by 0.70...which reduces it by 70%....this adds the 30% extra fuel that e85 requires.

2 - you're on a 16bit ecu wrx....if you're running anything over a 65mm MAF then you have to start reducing the injector scalar due to the 300 g/s MAF limit.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:32 PM   #2579
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Here is the update on 99STM's car.

I set it up to run wastegate boost. That wound up actually being 8-9 psi, creeping to 10psi in this cooler weather. No more misfires were happening at this pressure. The gas in the tank is, by my best estimates E75. The injector scalar is set at 600 for a flow rated 830cc.

Fueling down low and in the midrange was good. I was targeting a flat 11.6:1 AFR from about 3500 RPM to redline to see what would happen up top. It started to lean out around 4500 RPM all the way up to 13.0:1 by redline. Max duty cycle was 50%.

Knowing this, I left the scalar as is, and set the fueling targets for loads above 1.5 to slope quickly richer after 4500 RPM or so, targeting mid 9's. This resulted in an observed AFR creeping from mid 11's up to about 12.0-12.2:1 by redline. Max IDC was 60-62% depending on the pull. Flowing around 4.05 mafV on the stock intake by redline at 10 psi.

So this leads me to believe that the fuel filter is probably partially clogged. If we truly were out of fuel pump, then making the fuel map richer wouldn't result in richer AFR's right? Maybe it's a bit of both?
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:38 PM   #2580
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What maf is on the car? Oops just saw the "stock intake"...is there a turbo inlet on the car?

if you are able to correct the AFR....then its most likely just a tuning issue.

Despite what most people say on here...."add 30% fuel via the inj scalar and ur all set"....i have found that every car i have done on e85 requires work to the entire MAF scale. I believe its due to e85 containing more oxygen than pump.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:45 PM   #2581
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I don't know what you mean by what maf is on the car. I have not modded the car outside of injectors, fuel pump, plugs, and exhaust. If it runs fine on 9 psi and the AFR's are good but leans out when you add more boost, it only makes sense that the fuel pump is not supporting the added boost, right? I am going to get a Purolator fuel filter right now. I found a Walbro 255 GSS340 pump local to me that I will probably buy as well. If it is still misfiring, I will check the plugs, coil packs, and the cylinder 1 injector if I have to.
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:05 PM   #2582
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i was basically asking what intake....different intakes have different MAF housing diameters and require the MAF scale to be modified.
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:14 PM   #2583
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Ah ok. Yeah I just have th stock intake. Just got back from buying a fuel filter. When I get some time and its not cold, I will throw it and the fuel pump in, when I get the fuel pump too haha.
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:51 PM   #2584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnapshot
Here is the update on 99STM's car.

I set it up to run wastegate boost. That wound up actually being 8-9 psi, creeping to 10psi in this cooler weather. No more misfires were happening at this pressure. The gas in the tank is, by my best estimates E75. The injector scalar is set at 600 for a flow rated 830cc.

Fueling down low and in the midrange was good. I was targeting a flat 11.6:1 AFR from about 3500 RPM to redline to see what would happen up top. It started to lean out around 4500 RPM all the way up to 13.0:1 by redline. Max duty cycle was 50%.

Knowing this, I left the scalar as is, and set the fueling targets for loads above 1.5 to slope quickly richer after 4500 RPM or so, targeting mid 9's. This resulted in an observed AFR creeping from mid 11's up to about 12.0-12.2:1 by redline. Max IDC was 60-62% depending on the pull. Flowing around 4.05 mafV on the stock intake by redline at 10 psi.

So this leads me to believe that the fuel filter is probably partially clogged. If we truly were out of fuel pump, then making the fuel map richer wouldn't result in richer AFR's right? Maybe it's a bit of both?
If u think its a fuel delivery problem then put a fuel pressure gauge on the car and watch it through a pull, if the pressure drops then u know what it is.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:01 PM   #2585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
What maf is on the car? Oops just saw the "stock intake"...is there a turbo inlet on the car?

if you are able to correct the AFR....then its most likely just a tuning issue.

Despite what most people say on here...."add 30% fuel via the inj scalar and ur all set"....i have found that every car i have done on e85 requires work to the entire MAF scale. I believe its due to e85 containing more oxygen than pump.
On my car, my MAF scale didn't need any work when switching fuels. It did need some slight adjusting above 4.2 mafv as it seemed to need a little extra fuel up there. (half an AFR point more IIRC) Maybe I'm not as picky as you though with my tune. Usually i tune so that open loop is pretty spot on, and as long as closed loop is within 5% or so I just leave it.

This seems like a fairly serious AFR deviation to me. To add a little over 2 full afr points and see it still lean out a bit makes me think its not the tune.

Im not a tuning expert by any means, but I have tuned my own car on 90, 91, 100, E70 and E85, with a constantly changing setup. If its a tune issue, I'm at a loss to what it could be.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:03 PM   #2586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02RexWI

If u think its a fuel delivery problem then put a fuel pressure gauge on the car and watch it through a pull, if the pressure drops then u know what it is.
We will if it gets to that point. He is going replace the fuel filter first, since that probably needs to be done anyway.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:20 PM   #2587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99STM View Post
I don't know what you mean by what maf is on the car. I have not modded the car outside of injectors, fuel pump, plugs, and exhaust. If it runs fine on 9 psi and the AFR's are good but leans out when you add more boost, it only makes sense that the fuel pump is not supporting the added boost, right? I am going to get a Purolator fuel filter right now. I found a Walbro 255 GSS340 pump local to me that I will probably buy as well. If it is still misfiring, I will check the plugs, coil packs, and the cylinder 1 injector if I have to.

now I have to ask.

What WBO2 sensor are you running? Is it calibrated for e85, ethanol, petrol or what?
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:25 PM   #2588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power

now I have to ask.

What WBO2 sensor are you running? Is it calibrated for e85, ethanol, petrol or what?
It's an Aem UEGO calibrated for gasoline. He just texted me and said he cut open the fuel filter and it was really nasty. I'll let him post up about that.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:28 PM   #2589
99STM
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Just did the fuel filter. You could've poured fuel in a lagoon, then syphoned the fuel out of the lagoon and it probably would've looked better than what came out of my old filter. It is dirt brown. I emptied it out as much as possible after I took it out and it sounded like there was more in there. So I cut up the old filter and pure brown fuel came out of it. I will post up a picture later when I have access to my laptop/wireless.

EDIT: Sorry for the confusion, I did the fuel filter.

Last edited by 99STM; 03-25-2011 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:11 PM   #2590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnapshot View Post
It did need some slight adjusting above 4.2 mafv as it seemed to need a little extra fuel up there. (half an AFR point more IIRC) Maybe I'm not as picky as you though with my tune. Usually i tune so that open loop is pretty spot on, and as long as closed loop is within 5% or so I just leave it.
Yes...i am very picky with fueling.....its just a matter of nomenclature i guess....half an AF point...going from 12.0 to 11.5 is a 5% change in fueling....thats pretty significant in my eyes. The whole point was that you do need to make changes...its not just scalar*0.7 and be done.

And i always do MAF tabs when switching to e85 and make adjustments to the close loop portion of the scale as well.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:25 PM   #2591
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Here is what came out of my fuel filter. I should have a Walbro 255 by the end of the weekend.

I was driving home tonight in 5th gear and was going up a hill when I felt the stuttering that was going on before. We felt it a little while logging today but couldn't actually catch it in a log. It would always stutter when Ryan had Learning View or the ECU Editor up and running . Anyways, as soon as it started stuttering, I held my foot still to see if I could get it to keep doing it long enough to watch my gauges. The wideband showed fluttering in between 15 and 13/12 rapidly. I am going to see about getting that fuel pump in, regapping my plugs, and seeing where that leads us.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:30 PM   #2592
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fuel or puke bucket?
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:36 PM   #2593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99STM View Post


Here is what came out of my fuel filter. I should have a Walbro 255 by the end of the weekend.

I was driving home tonight in 5th gear and was going up a hill when I felt the stuttering that was going on before. We felt it a little while logging today but couldn't actually catch it in a log. It would always stutter when Ryan had Learning View or the ECU Editor up and running . Anyways, as soon as it started stuttering, I held my foot still to see if I could get it to keep doing it long enough to watch my gauges. The wideband showed fluttering in between 15 and 13/12 rapidly. I am going to see about getting that fuel pump in, regapping my plugs, and seeing where that leads us.
Fuel filter....# 2 on my check list.

But seriously d000d, you need to log this stuff man before you bust something. Specifically, AFR's, ignition timing, feedback knock, boost etc.

You keep reporting back, which is cool, but it seems you're not logging ALL the right stuff. I can't stress enough how important it is to log. Learning view you can look at when standing still and the car is not running....you need to log it while you're driving.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:36 PM   #2594
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If that was puke, someone would have died in the process of creating that
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:40 PM   #2595
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Originally Posted by SVT_WRX View Post
Fuel filter....# 2 on my check list.

But seriously d000d, you need to log this stuff man before you bust something. Specifically, AFR's, ignition timing, feedback knock, boost etc.

You keep reporting back, which is cool, but it seems you're not logging. I can't stress enough how important it is to log. Learning view you can look at when standing still and the car is not running....you need to log it while you're driving.
I have not logged it because I don't want to get on it more than I have to. xsnapshot logged the car and he can probably post the logs. We have logged on his computer, not mine.
I know what logging is, but I have not been the one doing that. It may have knocked slightly in one of the logs if i remember correctly but not much. I appreciate the help, though. I will make sure xsnapshot posts the logs.
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:01 PM   #2596
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r u sure that wasnt the oil filter
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:07 PM   #2597
99STM
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I'm sure! I was just as surprised as you are. After I cut it open, all of that came out and I said pretty loudly "Holy ****".
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:10 PM   #2598
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Time to get an E85 compliant Golan filter....
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:11 PM   #2599
99STM
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I will probably change it again after I put a few miles on it. Where can you buy those?
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:17 PM   #2600
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I bought mine from Jay Racing a while back.

http://www.jayracing.com/index.php?m...dex&cPath=2_14
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