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Old 03-28-2011, 02:21 PM   #2651
99STM
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Thank you. I will have to buy one of those when money permits.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:28 PM   #2652
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I dont wanna come off as conceited or anything....but if you dont have $15 to get that cable you really shouldnt be modifying your car....

especially if it keeps running lean like it is your gonna melt a piston, ring or hg in another week and have $4000 worth of repairs to do.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:30 PM   #2653
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The car is not running lean. I have the money to buy it, but I am more concerned about fixing the misfire/blowout issue first.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:32 PM   #2654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron

running 14.7 into peak boost isnt there for performance reasons.

its there so OEM's can get certain smog and MPG ratings
I never said it was for performance. I said it was more efficient, which it is. I don't run these AFRs at wot throttle into torque peak, just at part throttle, when accelerating mildly. At wot I try to have the afr curve be inversely proportional to the load curve.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:39 PM   #2655
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Thanks...but you really don't have to explain anything to me dood....I know this...

Listen....just put the scaler to 585...log it....let us know what the voltage and MAF G/S is. If it's still happening....swap coils AND I recommend NEW spark plugs....stock heat range.

Are you saying you can't log AFR's? Are you logging Feed Back and Fine learning knock correction? Where is the wideband placed? Are you 100% sure it's calibrated correctly?
It's not running lean anymore. Understand? You wouldn't be recommending running richer if you understood what you were talking about. Fixing the fuel pump and filter issue resolved the lean problem.

We are near optimal AFR. If I make it run richer, it will be harder to ignite. They are new plugs at the stock heat range.
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:31 PM   #2656
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It's not running lean anymore. Understand? You wouldn't be recommending running richer if you understood what you were talking about. Fixing the fuel pump and filter issue resolved the lean problem.

We are near optimal AFR. If I make it run richer, it will be harder to ignite. They are new plugs at the stock heat range.
How do you know for sure it's still not lean? Are you 100% sure that your wideband is reading correctly? What is MAF g/s, voltage and timing at the point its doing what it's doing? When are you going to post a log?

And you're right.....I really don't know what I'm talking about..
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:52 PM   #2657
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As 99STM mentioned the AEM Uego does not have a calibration "feature" like the LC-1.

From AEM's website

"The Bosch 4.2LSU sensor, which gives the controller its speed and accuracy, is laboratory calibrated at the factory and never requires free air calibration when used with an AEM Coontroller!"
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:01 PM   #2658
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As 99STM mentioned the AEM Uego does not have a calibration "feature" like the LC-1.

From AEM's website

"The Bosch 4.2LSU sensor, which gives the controller its speed and accuracy, is laboratory calibrated at the factory and never requires free air calibration when used with an AEM Coontroller!"
Yeah...I get that. I'm just saying that it could be reading incorrectly....because it's dead.
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Old 03-28-2011, 04:05 PM   #2659
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but tf the sensor was dead, it wouldn't read anything. It only has like 2k miles on it too.

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Old 03-28-2011, 04:24 PM   #2660
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A dead sensor will still read, just incorrectly.
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:51 PM   #2661
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logging my AEM wideband was something i wish i had done from day one. i went to frys and bought the stuff to make my own cable to log it, it was way easier than trying to look at it
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:30 PM   #2662
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Ok I suck at putting in tables. Here is a log from when I cut a blanket % of WGDC and target boost to reduce boost to try and stop the blowout. You can tell the ECU is fighting to keep the boost happy. I didn't go all out and tune for perfect flat boost, as this is just a map that hopefully would keep blowout away. It didn't however, and there was still blowout at the 14-15 psi level. The timing is changing with the varying loads due to the oscillating boost. This would be a situation where I would love the ease of an mbc.

Code:
Time, FKC*, rpm, grev, MRP, IDC, ITT, IAM, FLKC
0,0.00,3166,1.91,11.47,31.07,20.50,16,0.00
218,0.00,3249,2.09,14.72,36.05,17.50,16,0.00
421,0.00,3380,2.09,15.45,37.49,17.00,16,0.00
639,0.00,3467,2.02,14.89,37.72,17.50,16,0.00
842,0.00,3650,1.99,13.92,36.06,18.50,16,0.00
1061,0.00,3769,2.05,14.35,40.20,18.00,16,0.00
1263,0.00,3832,2.20,15.51,43.33,16.50,16,0.00
1466,0.00,3937,2.17,15.70,44.51,16.50,16,0.00
1669,0.00,3970,2.15,15.06,44.04,17.50,16,0.00
1887,0.00,4130,2.03,14.14,43.17,19.00,16,0.00
2090,0.00,4288,2.08,14.14,45.74,18.50,16,0.00
2309,0.00,4338,2.19,15.08,49.97,17.50,16,0.00
2511,0.00,4502,2.17,15.55,52.82,18.00,16,0.00
2730,0.00,4618,2.19,15.35,53.20,19.00,16,0.00
2933,0.00,4792,2.10,14.85,54.18,19.50,16,0.00
3135,0.00,4798,2.15,14.54,55.28,20.00,16,0.00
3354,0.00,4944,2.11,14.25,56.95,20.00,16,0.00
3557,0.00,4986,2.11,14.15,57.44,21.00,16,0.00
3775,0.00,5165,2.14,14.46,60.60,21.00,16,0.00
3978,0.00,5241,2.17,14.58,61.49,22.00,16,0.00
4196,0.00,5326,2.15,14.56,62.50,22.00,16,0.00
4399,0.00,5430,2.13,14.43,63.72,22.50,16,0.00
4602,0.00,5531,2.10,14.21,63.71,23.00,16,0.00
4805,0.00,5614,2.07,13.96,64.67,23.50,16,0.00
5007,0.00,5725,2.05,13.85,64.73,24.50,16,0.00
5210,0.00,5818,2.01,13.59,64.54,25.00,16,0.00
5413,0.00,5919,1.98,13.52,65.66,26.00,16,0.00
Here is another log before I reduced the wastegate duty cycles a second time. There is blowout in this one too. The boost is slightly higher. One thing weird with this log is the bolded lines. This is straight from the log file, I did not switch the lines. Can't figure out why the RPM is messed up like that.

Code:
Time, grev, rpm, FKC, IAM, IDC, IITT, MRP, FLKC
0,1.12,2437,0.00,16,13.52,33.00,2.55,0.00
172,1.21,2502,0.00,16,14.95,32.50,3.73,0.00
343,1.33,2565,0.00,16,16.41,30.50,5.07,0.00
515,1.42,2610,0.00,16,18.37,28.00,6.57,0.00
687,1.60,2696,0.00,16,21.85,24.00,8.24,0.00
858,1.74,2741,0.00,16,25.14,21.00,10.42,0.00
1030,1.98,2840,0.00,16,29.68,19.00,12.90,0.00
1201,2.13,2908,0.00,16,32.26,16.50,15.33,0.00
1373,2.16,3010,0.00,16,34.04,16.00,16.78,0.00
1545,2.20,3116,0.00,16,35.89,15.50,17.38,0.00
1701,2.22,3196,0.00,16,36.13,15.50,17.50,0.00
1888,2.23,3292,0.00,16,37.92,15.50,17.36,0.00
2044,2.34,3461,0.00,16,39.13,15.50,17.17,0.00
2215,2.26,3583,0.00,16,42.04,15.50,17.40,0.00
2387,2.33,3558,0.00,16,42.50,15.00,17.60,0.00
2559,2.20,3711,0.00,16,41.96,15.50,16.69,0.00
2730,2.25,3868,0.00,16,44.56,15.50,17.09,0.00
2902,2.37,4038,0.00,16,45.66,15.50,16.96,0.00
3073,2.25,4015,0.00,16,47.11,16.50,17.06,0.00
3245,2.27,4112,0.00,16,47.70,16.50,16.88,0.00
3401,2.24,4190,0.00,16,48.27,17.00,16.65,0.00
In both logs there is blowout. If boost would have been smooth, so would've timing advance. This is a stock intake, with a stock maf scale.

EDIT: This car will probably be getting an MBC soon. Thankfully. I have truly grown to hate tuning boost via the ECU after using a hybrid-dual WG setup for so long.

EDIT#2: AFR's were about 11.2-11.3:1 at peak torque and more or less 11.6:1 out to redline IIRC.

Last edited by xsnapshot; 03-28-2011 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:38 PM   #2663
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^^ the rpm swapping is very common on 16 bit ecu cars....

to get the tables to line up correctly you need to make the column headers less than 5 characters
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:14 AM   #2664
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Thank you for posting the logs Ryan.

I also had a buddy with an Evo ride in my car today. I did a 3rd gear pull with him in the car and he told me that he is positive it is blowout as well. I am more than likely going to swap the cylinder 1 coil pack with him tomorrow to see if that cures it. Cylinder 1 is the one that was throwing the code when it was blowing out the first time we had it at 16 psi.

And yes, an MBC is in my near future.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:18 AM   #2665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
^^ the rpm swapping is very common on 16 bit ecu cars....

to get the tables to line up correctly you need to make the column headers less than 5 characters
Interesting. Glad to know its not a big deal. I've never personally encountered that on my car. Any idea as to why it happens?
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:22 AM   #2666
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Originally Posted by 99STM
Thank you for posting the logs Ryan.

I also had a buddy with an Evo ride in my car today. I did a 3rd gear pull with him in the car and he told me that he is positive it is blowout as well. I am more than likely going to swap the cylinder 1 coil pack with him tomorrow to see if that cures it. Cylinder 1 is the one that was throwing the code when it was blowing out the first time we had it at 16 psi.

And yes, an MBC is in my near future.
Let me know how it goes. Im gonna go get that STI exhaust tomorrow. Stealthiness here I come!
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:24 AM   #2667
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Will do. I have a guy in Omaha that has a coil pack for me, if mine does happen to be failing, which I think it is. So if all goes well, I will have it all fixed by the weekend which would be awesome since it's gonna be nice. I really wanted to go to MAM this weekend but I am thinking next weekend would be better.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:41 AM   #2668
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Don't see nothing in the logs other than timing and boost fluctuation...but that could just be a product of the issue at hand.

Ok....swap the coil and let us know what the deal is.

I'm assuming your spark plugs are pretty new...so you don't have to worry about replacing them. That spark plug in that cylinder is probably a lot whiter in color than the others, but it should still be ok.

Also, I don't know how much you closed the gap...but if this resolves your issue, you might want to open it slightly to .028 or .031....but that's up to you.

Last edited by SVT_WRX; 03-29-2011 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:43 AM   #2669
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On a sidenote, I measured the E content at 3 different Shell stations here in Skokie tonight and they all have high E....One was 98, one was 95 and the last was 90. I realized that I've been running a bit lean lately and I had to crank the car 3 times or so to get it to start in the cold. Now it makes sense. I was tuned on summer E which was probably E85 and now I filled up with the E95 (probably diluting less with gas as gas prices continue to rise). It's kind of sad that i have to search for the poorest quality E just to make sure I don't run lean now. I didn't think I'd be having this problem
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:47 AM   #2670
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or u could just make a new map in 2 seconds after u test it
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:47 AM   #2671
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At those ethanol levels i'd be concerned about my fuel pump and fuel delivery system as a whole..
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:59 AM   #2672
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Don't see nothing in the logs other than timing and boost fluctuation...but that could just be a product of the issue at hand.

Ok....swap the coil and let us know what the deal is.

I'm assuming your spark plugs are pretty new...so you don't have to worry about replacing them. That spark plug in that cylinder is probably a lot whiter in color than the others, but it should still be ok.

Also, I don't know how much you closed the gap...but if this resolves your issue, you might want to open it slightly to .28 or .31....but that's up to you.
Spark plugs are only a week old. When I first installed them, I had them gapped to .028". I would blow out and it would go after at more load with the lack of fuel from the fuel pump. So since it was leaning out, we set the boost at wastegate pressure. Even at wastegate pressure, it would blow out in 5th gear while going up a hill. I then regapped the plugs to .022" and put in the Walbro. On the way to xsnapshot's house to do more tuning, it wasn't blowing out anymore no matter how much load there was. We then turned the boost up to 16 psi, which was more like 17.9 since it was 35 degrees out. Then we turned it down to 14.2 and it would hit around 16. At that point, I just said leave it because it will get warmer out this week and we won't have that issue anymore.
I could still just let it get warm out and not have to deal with the blow out issue but I don't know how much boost we could run before it would blow out again and I would like to turn it up to 21ish once I have an MBC so I would rather just fix it.

I will let you guys know how it turns out after swapping coil packs. Again, I thoroughly appreciate all the help. Makes it easier to trouble shoot when there is 10 minds brainstorming instead of 2
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:07 AM   #2673
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Spark plugs are only a week old. When I first installed them, I had them gapped to .028". I would blow out and it would go after at more load with the lack of fuel from the fuel pump. So since it was leaning out, we set the boost at wastegate pressure. Even at wastegate pressure, it would blow out in 5th gear while going up a hill. I then regapped the plugs to .022" and put in the Walbro. On the way to xsnapshot's house to do more tuning, it wasn't blowing out anymore no matter how much load there was. We then turned the boost up to 16 psi, which was more like 17.9 since it was 35 degrees out. Then we turned it down to 14.2 and it would hit around 16. At that point, I just said leave it because it will get warmer out this week and we won't have that issue anymore.
I could still just let it get warm out and not have to deal with the blow out issue but I don't know how much boost we could run before it would blow out again and I would like to turn it up to 21ish once I have an MBC so I would rather just fix it.

I will let you guys know how it turns out after swapping coil packs. Again, I thoroughly appreciate all the help. Makes it easier to trouble shoot when there is 10 minds brainstorming instead of 2
Cool...and like I said...it's up to you if you want to re-gap them or not. With the gap slightly larger, you'll get a better spark and better spark means...
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:10 AM   #2674
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Once I get a different coil pack, get that boost controller on, and do some more tuning with Ryan, I will regap the plugs and see if it blows out at 20-21 psi on a bigger gap.
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:43 AM   #2675
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On a sidenote, I measured the E content at 3 different Shell stations here in Skokie tonight and they all have high E....One was 98, one was 95 and the last was 90. I realized that I've been running a bit lean lately and I had to crank the car 3 times or so to get it to start in the cold. Now it makes sense. I was tuned on summer E which was probably E85 and now I filled up with the E95 (probably diluting less with gas as gas prices continue to rise). It's kind of sad that i have to search for the poorest quality E just to make sure I don't run lean now. I didn't think I'd be having this problem
How long are you waiting to read the test tube? or is there a prescribed time. my quick fuel technologies tube just says to wait a "few moments", no actual time. so when I did this on Saturday I let it sit for what I figured would be a few moments and it was I would say 92% but I went inside and looked at it again in 10-15 mins and it read 85%. now its been sitting on one of my tool boxes in my garage and it reads even lower. so what is the real reading?
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