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Old 10-29-2011, 10:45 PM   #4926
Junior2JZ
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Ur thinking too much about peak boost = peak power....which is doesn't. The boost on all vfs tapers up top to 14-16psi. Reducing the peak boost just lowers the tq.......it doesn't have a great effect on power above 5500rpm. And it really isn't that hard....I made 330whp on my room mates Sti on 91+meth.
We have this convo everytime someone makes good power On a vf at less than 20psi.

Don't u remember The power ur own vf was making tapering to 13-14 psi at redline?

So? Your not thinking enough about peak power on a vf VS were it makes 15psi. A VF will make peak power around 4500-5k rpm. The taper to 15 is usually around 6k. The cars that make 330-36owhp all have 20+psi in them like Juan says and taper off like all VFs. If you can find me 1 that made anywhere near 350whp with 15psi I will shut up.. Until then I am with Juan. either someone needs to recalibrate a boost gauge or map sensor.. or they only looked at the end of the data log. NO WAY A VF WILL MAKE 350WHP at 15psi unless it has some crazy high compression race motor.

Im sure Juan was at 22-24psi were he made peak power. So why would it matter when it tapered to 13-14psi
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:00 PM   #4927
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i guess im wrong....but just for ****s n giggles here's a vf car you did making peak power at 5500rpm....just like the one in the post above yours....and still making within 5whp of peak by 6200rpm.....so its not at all as impossible as you guys are claiming.

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Last edited by Phatron; 10-29-2011 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:12 PM   #4928
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A little too lazy to read through all 198 pages, and not sure if it was already mentioned, but I'm just wondering if post 2 can be updated with dyno type (or whatever garage the car was tuned at)? Just saying because I feel the data is a bit inconclusive even for others that are remotely curious about switch to e85. Or maybe even better, include the rough delta from 91?

As for me:

306whp 359wtq /jexeffectz /06 WRX Sedan/ EJ255 + Greddy 18g/1000cc + 75% /50 ft

Delta: +60whp/+91wtq
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:23 AM   #4929
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Ron the dyno at the shop always reads RPM a little late. That 6600rpm was more then likely 62-6300rpm as it reads based off a wheel speed calculation. Notice PK TQ is about 600-800rpm slow? Regardless you know what I mean. The amount of boost were these VF cars hit 350whp is no were near the 15psi at red line. Probably 22-24psi more then likely.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:46 AM   #4930
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ok....well i just looked over differnt dynos, road dynos, logs, and they all seem to be showing peak hp ~5500 where boost is typically 15-17 psi. idk, maybe im just finding all the anomalies.

Last edited by Phatron; 10-30-2011 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:50 PM   #4931
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Here are three pulls of a 2010 wrx vf52. How in the world is it possible to get 22 psi at 6500 rpm on such a small turbo. This is with ewg and grimmspeed bcs. The engine is literally pulling enough air that the turbo cant keep up. I agree with JR, Ive used a dyno dynamics alot and trying to get the rpm pickup to match the logged rpm is near impossible. Ive tuned plenty of vf 39's and 43's and they all hold boost about the same as the 52.



And a plot


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Old 10-30-2011, 01:42 PM   #4932
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Where did I ever say it would hold 22 psi at high rpm. Im saying the exact opposite that the boost drops up there, but the cars still hold the power. I'm saying that the power doesn't drop off and they make close to the same power at 5000 rpm as 6000 rpm. ...where the boost is 18 psi or 15 psi.

Jr's own plot above is still making 340whp at redline.....so how can he be saying its impossible when he already did it

Even your plots are making close to peak hp @ 6000 at 16 psi.....your guys' own plots are just proving that it's possible to make great power at 15-16 psi

Last edited by Phatron; 10-30-2011 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 10-30-2011, 02:17 PM   #4933
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heres another from a dj making 330-340 whp at 6500rpm.....where the boost has to be around 15psi

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkiboy View Post




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Old 10-30-2011, 02:55 PM   #4934
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Yes, I understand what your saying. But, there is no way you could safely still make the same hp on 15 as I was on 17 on the same car. I had boost maxed out as it didn't make any more power with 18 psi around 6000. If you look at the graph you can see that each pull I leaned afr out some. As a result the power output fell slightly. I might could have ran timing up a little but I didn't feel comfortable as it was a stock block.

Fwiw the customer wanted me to squeeze out a little more for a race he was running. I told him that he was already pushing the tune but he insisted. The only way I was able to get a little more power was from a couple more * of timing. He ran his best time that night but it cost him a cracked ringland. So the tune in the graph was pretty much all this car had in it. The tune in the graph was at 3000 ft above sea level.
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Old 10-30-2011, 02:58 PM   #4935
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Dupe..............

Last edited by fastblueufo; 10-30-2011 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 10-30-2011, 03:37 PM   #4936
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I really cant believe we are debating about being able to make 340hp on a Dynojet. People have made 400 on dj's and at the shop on vf turbos.

Last edited by Phatron; 10-30-2011 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:06 PM   #4937
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i made 600. so we can stop fighting
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:47 PM   #4938
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Junior,

Ron is correct in this case. Peak power dependent on octane will be 5-5.5k where the boost will be right around 16psi +/-1 respective to car / ambient conditions.

As far as 400whp on a vf, I have to laugh but I did put down 380whp SAE on a dynojet, which was 396whp STD correction (hahahahahahah)


Karl,

I thought you made 700 on the hta?? lol
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:02 PM   #4939
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well i didnt want to let the cat out the bag... geez. lol
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:12 PM   #4940
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any dyno = tuning tool.

timeslip = real numberz

moving on...
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:05 PM   #4941
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i got 1 more.....juan's own car made 380whp at 5600rpm....@16psi on motion labs dyno.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:10 PM   #4942
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Trap speeds...
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:58 AM   #4943
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I'd rather look at the difference in usable power and response from 91 octane. This provides more data to others in what's actually possible with e85.

...just sayin
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:21 AM   #4944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jexeffectz View Post
I'd rather look at the difference in usable power and response from 91 octane. This provides more data to others in what's actually possible with e85.

...just sayin
...was this directed at the current conversation or was this starting a new one? if it was directed at the current one, i don't really understand what you are getting at...
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:23 AM   #4945
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Guys, I guess I should explain everything that's done to my car, it has EBCS, intake, inlet, FMIC, tgv deletes, header, ewg up pipe (both coated by Swaintech), and turboback exhaust. I'm sure that isn't a complete list. I've got a lot more done than most do for E-85 on a stock turbo, part of me wants to see how close I can get to the record, but not before I build an engine.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:33 AM   #4946
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I can't believe some of you are saying 350 on a 52 is impossible. I work at the shop drew got tuned at, speed techniques in tea south dakota, this is actually the second car with a vf52 we've had that's made about 350 hp, both had different mods, both on e85.

Both std correction.


Just for info the other car had an intake, stock inlet, ebay top mount, up and downpipe, and a catback. And I belive it was also a 2010 wrx
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:47 AM   #4947
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I'd like to see his boost curve. I think the confusion may be coming from the fact that we don't have all the info. My gut is that Ron is on to something. I think if a VF52 were tuned so that it made 15PSI peak and held all the way to redline, it would probably produce number like Drew (ie. similar HP and TQ).

Most people on 18 to 20+PSI tunes are actually tapered down to about 15-16PSI by peak power anyways. The 20psi gets them close to 400WTQ, but it doesn't do much for peak power, because the turbo has tapered down by high RPM anyways. Maybe?

Dyno plot (with boost curve) would answer a lot of questions...
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:50 AM   #4948
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yeah, kody made 350 with fewer mods.

cody, what am i looking at for a bill to build my engine? i want 450 now 350 really doesn't seem all that impressive...i grew up with too many fast cars i guess

edit: @ xluben, i didn't get a dyno print out, their printer took a **** while i was there. maybe cody can get it fixed and post a pic or two.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:02 PM   #4949
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also, fwiw, i'm not a drag racer, i don't plan to be doing any drag racing with my car until i build a motor and transmission which will be years down the road.

cody, remember mentioning how notchy my shifter was? i noticed it too, it wasn't that bad before. possibly because of the switch from scotty's cocktail to whatever you guys put in? also, remember the crack in the exhaust? it completely broke, i'm running with just the resonator now its slightly loud i'm surprised i haven't been pulled over for it yet.

also, happy birthday to cody (sorrowfulkiller)

Last edited by drewvdw; 10-31-2011 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:08 PM   #4950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
I'd like to see his boost curve. I think the confusion may be coming from the fact that we don't have all the info. My gut is that Ron is on to something. I think if a VF52 were tuned so that it made 15PSI peak and held all the way to redline, it would probably produce number like Drew (ie. similar HP and TQ).

Most people on 18 to 20+PSI tunes are actually tapered down to about 15-16PSI by peak power anyways. The 20psi gets them close to 400WTQ, but it doesn't do much for peak power, because the turbo has tapered down by high RPM anyways. Maybe?

Dyno plot (with boost curve) would answer a lot of questions...
thats exactly what im saying.

The only thing you said thats wrong is "tapered" like the tuner did it. VF turbos taper because they're out of breath and cant flow anymore. You can put an EBCS on a vf car and run it at 100% wgdc and the boost above 5000-5500rpm will be exactly the same as a normal stage2 car. You can do the same thing with a mbc and crank it all the way down.....you'll skyrocket the low end tq but thats it....the boost is gonna taper all by itself.
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