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Old 09-17-2012, 03:13 PM   #6401
jnorth85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastblueufo

They don't put junk in the housings, its the tips and pintle that are often modified by a company and then sold under another company's name . Strong knowledge there son.
Correct. But many of these injectors are not "modified" injectors they are simply manufacturing at a higher flow rate.
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:18 PM   #6402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastblueufo View Post
They don't put junk in the housings, its the tips and pintle that are often modified by a company and then sold under another company's name . Strong knowledge there son.
Go on... I don't want to hear simply that "Injectors X suck because people have had isuses with them". I want to understand what exactly the differences are that make one injector perform better than another. I haven't been able to get a good handle on this or I haven't been looking in the right places to find the information myself.

For example, when I was injector shopping, I compared ID1000 topfeeds to FiveO topfeeds. I did my research and found that there were equal parts of people saying ID's "sucked" as parts of people saying FiveOs "sucked" so that didn't help. From what I found, it seemed that both companies were buying Bosch EV14 based injectors, flow testing them and matching up sets to sell. ID's seemed to flow closer to 900ccs, FiveO's seemed to flow closer to 1000cc and the FiveOs were quite a bit cheaper. The opinions from people who had tuned both sets seemed to indicate they were equal on that level so I went with FiveOs.
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:41 PM   #6403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastblueufo View Post
I'm not sure what type injectors they buy and sell. Whatever they are doesn't matter much when bottom line is, THEY SUCK! Five-0 just keeps selling the same crap injectors for years and doesn't try selling a better injector. They would rather just replace the tons of bad ones or better yet, have the customer just eat the money spent on there injectors only to spend more money on a better set. I've seen that done more than once.

Sounds like my experiences with Deatschwerks.. although most people seemed to like the DWs, until shortly after I get my first set of 1300s installed, then all of a sudden everyone was having problems with them. I gave them three tries.. the second time I called DW personally and asked if they could be sure to test and verify my injectors were working before they sent them out. They said they test all injectors prior to shipping and they insured I would not have any problems with this set. Of course as soon as I had them in the car and tried to scale them I knew they were junk.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:27 PM   #6404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecpgh

Already made over 400 whp with the five o1600s i previously had installed, og fp green 23psi, ewg, el headers, fmic,stock block stock fuel lines, Perrin V1 rails, dw300 pump. More than likely i am going to build myself a rotated setup soon and a NEW fuel system.
Like i said before, just get the fic 2150 injectors and be happy! :-)
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:51 PM   #6405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rymaggi View Post
Anyone running a wrx factory 5spd with e85? hows it holding up, and how many miles have you put on it? And how long do you think you have tell you will need to upgrade your tranny?
I am... an 02 that has ~180k miles, but not insane power. It didn't feel like it was going to be happy with the TD04 at 22 psi though. I could put serious shock load abuse into it. On the 18g it's been holding on E85 for a year or two, but I don't beat up on my tranny. Onramp here and there, no racing.

I'm going to re-build soon, and I plan on tuning the boost curve to limit torque to keep things from being too out of control. probably around 300 airboy. That's about my peak torque now, but after rebuild and a different turbo, I'm hoping to have a pretty flat ~300 torque from ~3500 to 6500-7000 rather than the torque mountain by keeping boost low @ spool, and gradually tapering it up towards redline.
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:50 PM   #6406
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Originally Posted by baseballdbk1 View Post
Like i said before, just get the fic 2150 injectors and be happy! :-)
...and like i said, why wouldn't he just get smaller/cheaper ones if there is no need for 2150cc of fuel. even if he was running something as big as a 40R, the 1680's should be fine. there really isn't much of a need to go all the way to the 2150's unless you were planning a pretty SERIOUS setup. IMO, going to something that large when it isn't needed is just increasing the chances of having issues without any real reason for it, especially if there are other options from the same company that are better suited for the setup.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:10 PM   #6407
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What are some good injectors for a gtx3076r ? (64lb/min)I'm running dw 1100's currently but have heard they have a tendency to fail without notice, and I'm at about 90-95% idc.

Just looking to see what I could swap in there that would give me the fuel I need and not fail on me in the future.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:52 PM   #6408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover

...and like i said, why wouldn't he just get smaller/cheaper ones if there is no need for 2150cc of fuel. even if he was running something as big as a 40R, the 1680's should be fine. there really isn't much of a need to go all the way to the 2150's unless you were planning a pretty SERIOUS setup. IMO, going to something that large when it isn't needed is just increasing the chances of having issues without any real reason for it, especially if there are other options from the same company that are better suited for the setup.
What is your problem with a reliable injector that idles perfectly on pump gas, he will have plenty of injector using E85 when he upgrades to a rotated kit, and does not have the problems like the 1600 cores that are prone to failure?

I spoken with DW and FIC about why they do not use a mid-range injector size such as the 1600 and both have told me that there is a problem with the cores that causes inconsistency...

so why not just go bigger with a higher reliability factor and consistency while being able to idle perfectly on pump @ 14.7:1?
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:21 PM   #6409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
Sounds like my experiences with Deatschwerks.. although most people seemed to like the DWs, until shortly after I get my first set of 1300s installed, then all of a sudden everyone was having problems with them. I gave them three tries.. the second time I called DW personally and asked if they could be sure to test and verify my injectors were working before they sent them out. They said they test all injectors prior to shipping and they insured I would not have any problems with this set. Of course as soon as I had them in the car and tried to scale them I knew they were junk.
so i bought a used set of dw1300s. less than an hour on them. installed them and had surging at low rpm low speed cruise.

since i was the second owner they would not refund them. they would however sell me a set of ev-14 bodied dw1000s for 400$ plus my 1300cc cores. or send my cores in and they would exchange them for 112$.

not looking forward to downtime from having a car with no injectors, which could be over a week, RAY and i decided to try them on e85.

GREAT SUCCESS!

big up ray of turbotek tuning.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:34 PM   #6410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr

so i bought a used set of dw1300s. less than an hour on them. installed them and had surging at low rpm low speed cruise.

since i was the second owner they would not refund them. they would however sell me a set of ev-14 bodied dw1000s for 400$ plus my 1300cc cores. or send my cores in and they would exchange them for 112$.

not looking forward to downtime from having a car with no injectors, which could be over a week, RAY and i decided to try them on e85.

GREAT SUCCESS!

big up ray of turbotek tuning.
Ya the set i have idle and cruise great even with 3 month old E in the tank i just don't want to get stuck now that I'm hearing these other horror stories
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:36 PM   #6411
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Having an injector that still doesn't work on pump isn't really a great solution though. Most of them work on e85 because of the additional fuel needs.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:50 PM   #6412
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supposed to be a temporary solution, but they work pretty well so far.

plus my goals arent tremendous. 450whp/400tq.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:05 PM   #6413
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:18 PM   #6414
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^Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Anyone with an 08+ WRX or STI (ie. plastic fuel pump housing) know which color wire needs to be spliced into to hard wire the fuel pump? Like this, but for the newer models:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2382384
^Anyone?
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:59 PM   #6415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben

^Anyone?
I was going to do this but decided not to on stock turbo. I think I may have found a thread somewhere, can't remember. You could just take a volt meter and check which wire is hot when you turn the key on.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:39 PM   #6416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baseballdbk1 View Post
What is your problem with a reliable injector that idles perfectly on pump gas, he will have plenty of injector using E85 when he upgrades to a rotated kit, and does not have the problems like the 1600 cores that are prone to failure?

I spoken with DW and FIC about why they do not use a mid-range injector size such as the 1600 and both have told me that there is a problem with the cores that causes inconsistency...

so why not just go bigger with a higher reliability factor and consistency while being able to idle perfectly on pump @ 14.7:1?

interesting that FIC would say something like that since they DEFINITELY sell injectors that are 1450cc and 1650cc.

obviously, i am not against FIC injectors considering i am running a set of bluemax 1250's. i am against going almost double the injector size needed if it isn't necessary, because no matter how good your's idles on pump gas, not everyone's will be like that. if every car was like that, FIC wouldn't sell something like the FIC Injector Easy Tune Box.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:52 PM   #6417
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Ya^^ considering my five o 16s idled crappy in high heat, better in winter temps and nearly perfect with the a/c on, slight extra load. I figure if I didn't have a light flywheel and clutch that it would be smoother.

So there its going to be alot of variances in the success of a particular injector based on climate , tuner/amount of time spent on dialing them in, and the individual setup before even considering the difference between pump gas end E85

That is why i spent so much time with this one set of injectors. I wanted to be sure that it wasn't something external too the injectors
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:00 PM   #6418
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It was id that pulled there 1600's due to fuel temp fluctuation problems.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:45 AM   #6419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
interesting that FIC would say something like that since they DEFINITELY sell injectors that are 1450cc and 1650cc.

obviously, i am not against FIC injectors considering i am running a set of bluemax 1250's. i am against going almost double the injector size needed if it isn't necessary, because no matter how good your's idles on pump gas, not everyone's will be like that. if every car was like that, FIC wouldn't sell something like the FIC Injector Easy Tune Box.
look at the subaru injector options... nothing between 1100 and 2150

he said he was running 1600cc injectors and will soon be going rotated...
whats the problem with giving yourself room to work with and never having to run an IDC close to 85-90% where it becomes static?
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:46 AM   #6420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
It was id that pulled there 1600's due to fuel temp fluctuation problems.
as well as FIC and DW will not use the bosch 1600 cores due to the inconsistencies...

I had talk to many people over the winter bcz i was "possibly" gonna step down to a smaller injector but every person/company that I had talk to strongly recommended sticking with the 2150 injectors based on all the problems seen with the 1600 injectors

Last edited by baseballdbk1; 09-18-2012 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:58 AM   #6421
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http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51468

There have been a few post on why people are having fueling issues, Injector Dynamics has just finished some real world testing in there rolling test car and are issuing a RECALL on all the 1600cc injectors they have sold.

Quote:
Hi all,

Anyone with ID1600's please contact me to exchange them.

July 15, 2011

The Injector Dynamics ID1600 has been discontinued due to excessive fuel temperature
sensitivity which was recently revealed by ongoing product testing.

Additional testing was prompted by customer feedback suggesting that the ID1600 exhibited
reduced flow rates when operated with high fuel temperatures.

Extensive on-vehicle testing was performed while varying fuel temperature, and the results
confirmed two things:

1. The ID1600 did in fact exhibit temperature sensitivity with flow decreasing as fuel temperature
increased.

2. The temperature sensitivity was not linear and became extreme at high temperatures.

These test results explained why the reported problems were limited to those performing
extended chassis dyno tuning, or driving in hot climates with fuel systems prone to fuel heating.

The results also explained why the overwhelming majority reported no problems, and why our
initial on-vehicle and flow bench testing showed that the ID1600 met our standards.

---->Now these injectors they are recalling use the same body the FIC 1680's do so they will have the same issue (and have shown the same symptoms)<---
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:05 AM   #6422
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That was over a year ago...not just now. I believe I posted that link and quote in this thread already. And last I read on fic is that they weren't pulling them....did they change their minds recently? Last i read on Fic was posting on Evom that they only had like 1% of 1600's owners complain so they weren't recalling. May have changed though.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:12 AM   #6423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
That was over a year ago...not just now. I believe I posted that link and quote in this thread already. And last I read on fic is that they weren't pulling them....did they change their minds recently? Last i read on Fic was posting on Evom that they only had like 1% of 1600's owners complain so they weren't recalling. May have changed though.
I do not know if it is a recent thing either which is why is was confused when i talked to all these people over the winter looking into buying 1600s when i was somewhat concerned about how the 2150s would be if i needed to run pump but no worries now...

i know a few people that run fic 1600 injectors in their subies for a long time with no known issues but then you cant buy them anymore?

Last edited by baseballdbk1; 09-18-2012 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:38 AM   #6424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baseballdbk1 View Post
look at the subaru injector options... nothing between 1100 and 2150

he said he was running 1600cc injectors and will soon be going rotated...
whats the problem with giving yourself room to work with and never having to run an IDC close to 85-90% where it becomes static?

yes, look at the subaru injector options. there is a tab that says low-z or high-z. click on the low-z tab, and you will see the in-between sizes . just because they aren't plug&play doesn't mean they aren't an option. also, evo injectors fit as well with a 5/8" spacer on the fuel rail. so there are even more options there.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:52 AM   #6425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baseballdbk1

I do not know if it is a recent thing either which is why is was confused when i talked to all these people over the winter looking into buying 1600s when i was somewhat concerned about how the 2150s would be if i needed to run pump but no worries now...

i know a few people that run fic 1600 injectors in their subies for a long time with no known issues but then you cant buy them anymore?

The FIC 1600 was having an issue of internal parts Melting because fuel temps got to high while running pump gas. They work great for E85. I happen to know of two sets for sale one brand new and one set with about 2000 miles on them.


Also ID will e bringing out a 1400-1800cc injector soon. No word that I have heard o what the exact specs are.
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