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Old 09-19-2012, 05:42 PM   #6451
fastblueufo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
As mentioned low Z with a resistor pack is not the same as a properly setup low z with a real peak/hold driver box. You can make a low z injector drive as good and have a much greater range of sizes but you will need to add a peak/hold box to it for our ECUs and most others to have them work properly. I also want to mention that proper and acceptable are to different things.

By the time you add a peak/hold box in and injectors, you bought yourself FIC/ID 2ks.
You can't compare idle quality of peak and hold inj to high imp. The peak and hold wins hands down. Why would you want to run id2k inj on 500hp or less? Its really pointless.
You can easily run up to 500whp on E85 with 1250cc and the right fuel system. 2kcc injectors are just overkill on a bunch of setups. Mostly because joe blow says that's what you need to run E85 on a forum and then 10k guys read it and go that route not knowing the facts.

There are just certain inj that arnt that great if you want perfect steetability. 2kcc inj are a good example.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:22 PM   #6452
john 1badSTI
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id2200's are fine for street use IF used with a good standalone but too many people on this forum want big power but are too cheap to do it the right way with a SA that can actually control the injectors the way they should be.You can't have your cake and eat it too---to do it THE RIGHT WAY there is no cutting corners period!
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:38 PM   #6453
mecpgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI
id2200's are fine for street use IF used with a good standalone but too many people on this forum want big power but are too cheap to do it the right way with a SA that can actually control the injectors the way they should be.You can't have your cake and eat it too---to do it THE RIGHT WAY there is no cutting corners period!
I want a standalone (aem) but the cash is an issue and I would have to learn and spend alot of time to get proficient tuning it. Being that I work 6 to 7 days a week right now.
Otherwise I think a lot of ppl dont want to spend the money for a box and then a higher priced tune
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:15 PM   #6454
maxpowr
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john makes a good point though. just cuz you can duct tape it on there doesnt mean its gonna work right.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:21 PM   #6455
john 1badSTI
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I believe that with the knowledge I have seen from you(mecpgh) that you should have no problem learning to use an aem sa,you would just need to get the software and go over it so you know how to navigate thru everything.I think that once you know what is what in the software the rest will not be a problem.And yes I agree a sa is expensive but when compared to 8 to 10 thousand plus in a full built motor a couple grand for a sa is a good investment.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:45 PM   #6456
maxpowr
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when i was young the things i wanted cost hundreds of dollars. i suffered and saved and eventually could get things.

now that i am "older" things cost thousands.

trouble is the older i get the more things cost, but the older i get the more impatient i become. its hard to be so close yet so far...
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:50 PM   #6457
mecpgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI
I believe that with the knowledge I have seen from you(mecpgh) that you should have no problem learning to use an aem sa,you would just need to get the software and go over it so you know how to navigate thru everything.I think that once you know what is what in the software the rest will not be a problem.And yes I agree a sa is expensive but when compared to 8 to 10 thousand plus in a full built motor a couple grand for a sa is a good investment.

Thanks, a ya i was thinking the same thing as far as the software. I was keeping an eye out for a slightly used v2 but i just bought new wheels and tires...
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:19 PM   #6458
john 1badSTI
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you can download the software from aem's site and play with it while you wait to find a good deal on an aem box.And to give you an idea of expensive I first priced a motec ecu and with all the options(like ala carte) the price would have been about 4700.00 for it,so I researched and bought the Hydra.
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:23 PM   #6459
8thWonder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
when i was young the things i wanted cost hundreds of dollars. i suffered and saved and eventually could get things.

now that i am "older" things cost thousands.

trouble is the older i get the more things cost, but the older i get the more impatient i become. its hard to be so close yet so far...
I'm right there with you
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:32 PM   #6460
smeerone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr
when i was young the things i wanted cost hundreds of dollars. i suffered and saved and eventually could get things.

now that i am "older" things cost thousands.

trouble is the older i get the more things cost, but the older i get the more impatient i become. its hard to be so close yet so far...
This is true.

Last edited by smeerone; 09-19-2012 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:52 PM   #6461
maxpowr
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i just sold a car and bought brakes...BROKE AGAIN.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:17 PM   #6462
2011SatinSTI
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Car : 2011 STI

Injectors : Bosch 1180's

Turbo: ATP GT3076r

Built block, head work, 272/268 Kelfords, etc..

380whp @17psi

409@20psi

Maxed out fuel pump @20-21psi, (DW65c), Radium surge tank and dual Bosch 044's in transit (overkill, but planning ahead here), full boost next week. Until then, driving around on the 17psi tune with 380 is far from boring..
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:40 PM   #6463
john 1badSTI
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hey jake at least you don't have 2 addictive hobbies---#1 the suby #2 high end 1911's and competition(uspsa) pistols and shooting matches every week or every other week.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:56 PM   #6464
karlknaupp
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cutting corners gets you no where... like what was mentioned why spend 20gs or more on motor and setup. then cheap out on what controls it all. my next build will be Standalone ran.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:00 PM   #6465
mecpgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI
you can download the software from aem's site and play with it while you wait to find a good deal on an aem box.And to give you an idea of expensive I first priced a motec ecu and with all the options(like ala carte) the price would have been about 4700.00 for it,so I researched and bought the Hydra.
Ya i already have the software for my year sti and for a friends 40r S2k i was working on a base map for his S2k and then he just decided to have it trailer ed to innovative
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:06 PM   #6466
mecpgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlknaupp
cutting corners gets you no where... like what was mentioned why spend 20gs or more on motor and setup. then cheap out on what controls it all. my next build will be Standalone ran.
Ya i agree with that but i never spent much money at all to get my 410whp the car sits at today. Everything has been fabbed installed and tuned by me and only a handful of parts are brand new. Its amazing how much you can save when you know what to look for and troll this site constantly haha
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:08 PM   #6467
Concillian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlknaupp View Post
cutting corners gets you no where... like what was mentioned why spend 20gs or more on motor and setup. then cheap out on what controls it all. my next build will be Standalone ran.
I love this reasoning...the answer is because you planned to spend 10gs, but all these people said if you're gonna spend that much on this, you might as well get that or it's a waste... and all of the sudden you've spent an extra 10gs.

You gotta stop somewhere... unless you have a lot more money than most people do.

I think the internet + people's natural tendency towards 'upgrade-itis' does a good job of facilitating this. Watch out, it can lead to hemorrhaging money. Some things you just gotta stop at "good enough" and not pay the extra for "ideal solution".
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:17 PM   #6468
john 1badSTI
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^^^I agree and some people need to stop at the point where they cannot afford to make any more hp because if something does happen they don't have the funds to fix it---mod within your means.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:12 PM   #6469
mecpgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI
^^^I agree and some people need to stop at the point where they cannot afford to make any more hp because if something does happen they don't have the funds to fix it---mod within your means.
Oh ya I've seen it with customers and friends. Then there are all the people that just spend way too much money on a weird setup that doesn't make the power expected
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:13 AM   #6470
slowgenius
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You make an excellent point concillian. I think the problem is the order in which people spend their budget, and the way it has been prioritized.

Its easy to say "i need pistons", overlook everything it costs to complete that and realize that it actually costs more than anticipated to do "pistons".

Then once a big chunk of your money is gone, and you realize that pistons haven't actually netted you any more power until you change the tune, turbo, fuel injectors, exhaust, etc.

I am a fan of talking to a reputable builder that just doesn't build engines, but has a reputation for "complete" builds. They have the experience to say what is really needed to accomplish your power goals, and a good one wont compromise their reputation just to hit the goal, and risk failure because of poor planning.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:59 PM   #6471
karlknaupp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
I love this reasoning...the answer is because you planned to spend 10gs, but all these people said if you're gonna spend that much on this, you might as well get that or it's a waste... and all of the sudden you've spent an extra 10gs.

You gotta stop somewhere... unless you have a lot more money than most people do.

I think the internet + people's natural tendency towards 'upgrade-itis' does a good job of facilitating this. Watch out, it can lead to hemorrhaging money. Some things you just gotta stop at "good enough" and not pay the extra for "ideal solution".
i guess it pays to play. i hear ya i dont have tons of money either. im not saying to just go all out on everything. but you cant cheap out on tuning...
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:14 PM   #6472
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Everyone I cheap out on stuff. Tools parts ect. I always regret it. Period.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:51 PM   #6473
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I've not regretted a few "cheap" things.
Some tools you can get away with the cheap option (hammers come to mind).
I've never regretted buying the SSAC FMIC. Works just fine.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:54 PM   #6474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02RexWI
I've not regretted a few "cheap" things.
Some tools you can get away with the cheap option (hammers come to mind).
I've never regretted buying the SSAC FMIC. Works just fine.
Funny I went with two eBay cheapo topmounts. And eventually got fed up and went with a Process west. It seems you always pay more in the end when you cheap out. LOL
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:05 PM   #6475
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[quote=sackytar;38094849]Funny I went with two eBay cheapo topmounts. And eventually got fed up and went with a Process west. It seems you always pay more in the end when you cheap out. LOL[/quote

the majority of the time it's the truth. if i'm gonna go cheap-o on something i always look to see if i can find one used or if someone else is using said knock off and how it's worked out for them and how long it's lasted... that's why you never here of reviews on kinugawa turbos.lol everyone always says they are made from quality.. so where's the review and the update's.lol
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