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Old 10-17-2012, 07:19 PM   #6526
smeerone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sackytar
Longest post ever award^

I have had issues with cold start ups. It can be tuned better for cold start ups.
Haha... Quick question to run a DOM2.5 on a 2010 wrx would an aeromotive 340 or similar with 1000cc injectors and a BAP be suffice to hit 28 psi? Ron?
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:22 PM   #6527
Phatron
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five-0 ev14 1200's. direct wire pump.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:24 PM   #6528
smeerone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
five-0 ev14 1200's. direct wire pump.
Thats it? Hard wiring it will provide adequate voltage?
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:26 PM   #6529
john 1badSTI
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yes more stable and consistant voltage but also go with 10ga wire for more amp flow.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:34 PM   #6530
smeerone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI
yes more stable and consistant voltage but also go with 10ga wire for more amp flow.
Thanks. Would u recommend the 340 on 85? Ive been reading about it and its hot or miss.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:44 PM   #6531
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or wally400....and i meant direct wire the aftermarket pump....not direct wiring the stock pump.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:55 PM   #6532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate_fisher View Post
Im having a e85 related issue so i thought i would post here and check to see if anyone else has had this problem.
E85 is going to begin to exhibit cold start problems around/ below 60. So it's most likely still your cold cranking tables that need more fuel. When we were tuning my car, it took way more cranking IPW than you'd think to get it to start. As it gets even colder you're starting on the 15% of gas in the fuel, so it has to be crazy rich to fire.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:49 PM   #6533
maxpowr
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the first start up of the day for me cranks right over, everytime. after it warms up, it will crank but will not start unless i press the gas. as soon as i press the gas it starts... everytime.

new jersey, so it will go down in the 40s tonight.

loving e85. 3.59$ a gallon.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:59 PM   #6534
smeerone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr
the first start up of the day for me cranks right over, everytime. after it warms up, it will crank but will not start unless i press the gas. as soon as i press the gas it starts... everytime.

new jersey, so it will go down in the 40s tonight.

loving e85. 3.59$ a gallon.
79* here in humid miami e85 3.35$
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:06 PM   #6535
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3.89/gal in CA, but our prices always suck. And I think it was in the 90's today
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:43 AM   #6536
nate_fisher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sackytar View Post
Longest post ever award^

I have had issues with cold start ups. It can be tuned better for cold start ups.
Yeah sorry bout that i copy and pasted it from a thread i started so i didnt have to write it over. Im thinking it may be moisture in the gas. One of the vp jugs i used had a busted bleed cap and was open in my garage for a little while so im going to run this tank out completly and start from scratch.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:27 AM   #6537
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Gents,

Took a stab at reading through this thread, then took to searching and found some good results and good conversations. Unfortunately 260+ pages results in a lot of GREAT information, that is well hidden.

I am Canadian, switching over to E85 next year. The plan is to buy the go juice in barrels and keep it in my garage. Somewhere between 8-10 Barrels should be good enough for an entire race season.

My current Setup:

CP Forged 9:1 Compression Coated Pistons
Stock Heads with Supertech Dual Valve Springs and TI Retainers
ARP Headstuds
OEM Headgaskets
Gates Timing Belt

P&L Rotated Gt3076 0.82 Turbo Kit
Perrin Stealth Black FMIC
Perrin EQL Header V-banded to P&L Up-pipe
JDM Spec C Intake Manifold
Perrin Fuel rails custom made.
Cobb Custom 3" Catback
Hallman Pro MBC --Best purchase ever. Screw EBC
NGK 1 Step Colder Plugs
Torque Solutions Solid Engine Mounts
Walbro In Tank
Aeromotive In Line Fuel Filter
Injector Dynamics 1000cc Top Feed Saturated injectors

Switching Out the Walbro for an in tank DW300 fuel pump that will come out of the tank into this unit here: https://radiumauto.com/index.php?p=p...id=76&parent=0
Question is, do I need 1 or 2 Bosch Fuel pumps?
Also, Could I get away with the Stock FPR? (its been perfect)?
Lastly, would my current injectors (1000cc) be okay for 26psi? (Currently at 72% duty at 27psi with 94 oct at peak)

Any recommendations? Thoughts? Considerations I should be looking at?

Regards,
N
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:41 AM   #6538
amalgrover
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it may be a moisture issue...


...but more than likely, it is just the cold starting tables needing adjustment. E85 is very picky when it comes to starting temperatures. I have seen it start fine at one temp, and then just a few degrees higher or lower, it starts acting up. the cold starting ipw's are interpolated by degrees so, as the temperature changes, the ipw also is changing. if your tune was done at 80*, then the starting tables below that temperature was pretty much all guess work based on experience or logic from what has worked in the past on previous tunes.


also, keep in mind, the starting issues seem to be individualized because i have seen two people with nearly identical setups and tunes have completely different experiences with starting. one person may have ZERO issues at all; while another may have HORRIBLE issues with cold/hot starting.





...on a side note, question for you nate...

did you ever have your fxt running E85 on the stock turbo? if you did, do you happen to remember your numbers and ET's (if you have them)?

i am thinking about playing around with the baby TD04 on my new project fxt. i am curious just how far the thing can be pushed with the fxt. so far, i haven't really found anyone that has even tried pushing the stock setup on the SH fxt so...






...just stole your longest post ever award
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:52 AM   #6539
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Ditch the colder spark plugs and get copper instead, stock heat range. You should be fine with the DW300 instead of dual pumps. Not sure about the FPR or injectors, but I'm sure someone else will chime in. Looks like you might be maxing out the injectors once you make the switch though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickcrsx
Gents,

Took a stab at reading through this thread, then took to searching and found some good results and good conversations. Unfortunately 260+ pages results in a lot of GREAT information, that is well hidden.

I am Canadian, switching over to E85 next year. The plan is to buy the go juice in barrels and keep it in my garage. Somewhere between 8-10 Barrels should be good enough for an entire race season.

My current Setup:

CP Forged 9:1 Compression Coated Pistons
Stock Heads with Supertech Dual Valve Springs and TI Retainers
ARP Headstuds
OEM Headgaskets
Gates Timing Belt

P&L Rotated Gt3076 0.82 Turbo Kit
Perrin Stealth Black FMIC
Perrin EQL Header V-banded to P&L Up-pipe
JDM Spec C Intake Manifold
Perrin Fuel rails custom made.
Cobb Custom 3" Catback
Hallman Pro MBC --Best purchase ever. Screw EBC
NGK 1 Step Colder Plugs
Torque Solutions Solid Engine Mounts
Walbro In Tank
Aeromotive In Line Fuel Filter
Injector Dynamics 1000cc Top Feed Saturated injectors

Switching Out the Walbro for an in tank DW300 fuel pump that will come out of the tank into this unit here: https://radiumauto.com/index.php?p=p...id=76&parent=0
Question is, do I need 1 or 2 Bosch Fuel pumps?
Also, Could I get away with the Stock FPR? (its been perfect)?
Lastly, would my current injectors (1000cc) be okay for 26psi? (Currently at 72% duty at 27psi with 94 oct at peak)

Any recommendations? Thoughts? Considerations I should be looking at?

Regards,
N
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:11 AM   #6540
Juks
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Couple things, I ran pretty much the same set up you're going to for about a year and a half (AWESOME set up BTW...loads of boost!)

Watch out for how long you store E85, ethanol absorbs moisture easily and might reduce the % ethanol by volume. I'd recommend going a few times throughout the season instead, hopefully you're not too far from a good station.

1 inline bosch will be more than enough for your 30R. I'm running a 35R on E85 now with a single bosch with no issues whatsoever. There's a car up here in the 9's only running 1 bosch with a boost-a-pump (probably pushing it, but it's doing it). Oh and not sure what your intended application will be, but if has anything to do with turning, you'll want a surge tank set up like the one you're looking at (you'll starve at 1/2 tank). If you're straight line only, an intank walbro 400 or 460 or whatever they are now would pump enough fuel, but still starve on hard corners/wide open throttle.

I never ran ID1000's, but I was running 1260's w/my 30R setup, and with the inline bosch, my IDC's were around 80 @ stock fuel pressure (100%+ with only DW300 intank w/boost a pump). If you want to stick with the 1000's, you'll need to up the fuel pressure, so you'll need the aftermarket FPR you mentioned. If you just go with bigger injectors, you'll be able to run stock fuel pressure w/the stock regulator.

x2 on the one step colder plugs. Go stock heat range and make sure you gap them down from what they come out of the box. I had a set of stock heat range iridiums come out at .040" out of the box, didn't check em/just threw them in, and had spark blowout issues (till some smart guy told me I was a dumbass ) So I pulled them out and gapped em to around .025"-.027" and it runs great now.

Good luck w/the build! It's going to be a blast to drive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickcrsx View Post
Gents,

Took a stab at reading through this thread, then took to searching and found some good results and good conversations. Unfortunately 260+ pages results in a lot of GREAT information, that is well hidden.

I am Canadian, switching over to E85 next year. The plan is to buy the go juice in barrels and keep it in my garage. Somewhere between 8-10 Barrels should be good enough for an entire race season.

My current Setup:

CP Forged 9:1 Compression Coated Pistons
Stock Heads with Supertech Dual Valve Springs and TI Retainers
ARP Headstuds
OEM Headgaskets
Gates Timing Belt

P&L Rotated Gt3076 0.82 Turbo Kit
Perrin Stealth Black FMIC
Perrin EQL Header V-banded to P&L Up-pipe
JDM Spec C Intake Manifold
Perrin Fuel rails custom made.
Cobb Custom 3" Catback
Hallman Pro MBC --Best purchase ever. Screw EBC
NGK 1 Step Colder Plugs
Torque Solutions Solid Engine Mounts
Walbro In Tank
Aeromotive In Line Fuel Filter
Injector Dynamics 1000cc Top Feed Saturated injectors

Switching Out the Walbro for an in tank DW300 fuel pump that will come out of the tank into this unit here: https://radiumauto.com/index.php?p=p...id=76&parent=0
Question is, do I need 1 or 2 Bosch Fuel pumps?
Also, Could I get away with the Stock FPR? (its been perfect)?
Lastly, would my current injectors (1000cc) be okay for 26psi? (Currently at 72% duty at 27psi with 94 oct at peak)

Any recommendations? Thoughts? Considerations I should be looking at?

Regards,
N

Last edited by Juks; 10-18-2012 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:38 AM   #6541
Nickcrsx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juks View Post
Couple things, I ran pretty much the same set up you're going to for about a year and a half (AWESOME set up BTW...loads of boost!)

Watch out for how long you store E85, ethanol absorbs moisture easily and might reduce the % ethanol by volume. I'd recommend going a few times throughout the season instead, hopefully you're not too far from a good station.

1 inline bosch will be more than enough for your 30R. I'm running a 35R on E85 now with a single bosch with no issues whatsoever. There's a car up here in the 9's only running 1 bosch with a boost-a-pump (probably pushing it, but it's doing it). Oh and not sure what your intended application will be, but if has anything to do with turning, you'll want a surge tank set up like the one you're looking at (you'll starve at 1/2 tank). If you're straight line only, an intank walbro 400 or 460 or whatever they are now would pump enough fuel, but still starve on hard corners/wide open throttle.

I never ran ID1000's, but I was running 1260's w/my 30R setup, and with the inline bosch, my IDC's were around 80 @ stock fuel pressure (100%+ with only DW300 intank w/boost a pump). If you want to stick with the 1000's, you'll need to up the fuel pressure, so you'll need the aftermarket FPR you mentioned. If you just go with bigger injectors, you'll be able to run stock fuel pressure w/the stock regulator.

x2 on the one step colder plugs. Go stock heat range and make sure you gap them down from what they come out of the box. I had a set of stock heat range iridiums come out at .040" out of the box, didn't check em/just threw them in, and had spark blowout issues (till some smart guy told me I was a dumbass ) So I pulled them out and gapped em to around .025"-.027" and it runs great now.

Good luck w/the build! It's going to be a blast to drive!
Amazing reply.

Thanks so much that is tremendously helpful. This motor and setup has been running well for 2+ years and many track events. Dont plan to 1/4 mile but I do plan to race somewhat competitively next year for time attack.

I understand that the surge tank is 100% necessary. I made 450whp/400wtq at 26psi with 94 and 50/50 meth this season. Although it was fun I couldnt run that much boost on the track due to tempatures rising so I stuck with 19-20psi without any problems. Id like to stay around that boost level but get a assload more timing into the car.

-I will most likely make frequent trips to the e85 station (3 hours away) to fill up to keep the E85 "fresh"
-Good suggestion on plugs. Noted and will give them a go.

Probably going to stick with the ID1000cc injectors and move up to a aftermarket FPR. (All aftermarket FPR's have failed me in the past EVERY SINGLE TIME so I am a bit skittish. Any solid recommendations?)

Thanks,
Nick
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:38 AM   #6542
Nickcrsx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8thWonder View Post
Ditch the colder spark plugs and get copper instead, stock heat range. You should be fine with the DW300 instead of dual pumps. Not sure about the FPR or injectors, but I'm sure someone else will chime in. Looks like you might be maxing out the injectors once you make the switch though.
Excellent post!

Thanks so much
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:47 AM   #6543
Juks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickcrsx View Post
Probably going to stick with the ID1000cc injectors and move up to a aftermarket FPR. (All aftermarket FPR's have failed me in the past EVERY SINGLE TIME so I am a bit skittish. Any solid recommendations?)

Thanks,
Nick
I've been running an aeromotive FPR with no issues, but I haven't bumped up the fuel pressure either. I've seen a few fuel lab FPR's on bigger/nicer builds on here too. What type of failures have you seen? Mines getting old and it'd be nice to recognize a failure when I see one (other than leaning out a 30psi and not noticing until its too late).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickcrsx View Post
I made 450whp/400wtq at 26psi with 94 and 50/50 meth this season. Although it was fun I couldnt run that much boost on the track due to tempatures rising so I stuck with 19-20psi without any problems. Id like to stay around that boost level but get a assload more timing into the car.
With E85 you'll be able to run wayyy more boost than that if you want. Up to you of course, but we were targeting 28psi w/my 30R for road racing. It was on fairly conservative timing though, which helped for traction control just past apexes. With how much colder it runs, you shouldn't have any heat issues. I was still on a stock radiator and oil cooler with no problems.

Last edited by Juks; 10-18-2012 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:03 AM   #6544
nate_fisher
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11.85@117 4eat xt record?

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quote(...on a side note, question for you nate...

did you ever have your fxt running E85 on the stock turbo? if you did, do you happen to remember your numbers and ET's (if you have them)?

i am thinking about playing around with the baby TD04 on my new project fxt. i am curious just how far the thing can be pushed with the fxt. so far, i haven't really found anyone that has even tried pushing the stock setup on the SH fxt so...)end quote

No i never ran the td04 on e85 only 93 oct. My best was a 14.09 on the td04 you can see my member journal over on subaruforester.org i have every thing up on there as i dont spend much time here. My new best on the vf52 on e85 was a 12.67 @110mph with a 1.78 60' time.
Not to bad for a soccer mom car with a stock 4eat if you ask me. I think on a colder day she will go 12.4 no problem.
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:15 PM   #6545
Nickcrsx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juks View Post
I've been running an aeromotive FPR with no issues, but I haven't bumped up the fuel pressure either. I've seen a few fuel lab FPR's on bigger/nicer builds on here too. What type of failures have you seen? Mines getting old and it'd be nice to recognize a failure when I see one (other than leaning out a 30psi and not noticing until its too late).



With E85 you'll be able to run wayyy more boost than that if you want. Up to you of course, but we were targeting 28psi w/my 30R for road racing. It was on fairly conservative timing though, which helped for traction control just past apexes. With how much colder it runs, you shouldn't have any heat issues. I was still on a stock radiator and oil cooler with no problems.
I suppose all the FPR's ive had in the past were fairly cheap. I noticed that over time the spring to increase/decrease pressure and moderate flow would no longer operate and I would see a huge decrease in fuel pressure straight away.

Willing to try something that is a bit more 'expensive' and bite the bullet.
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:59 PM   #6546
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Its def the cold weather i just started the car first try like normal and its about 65* out. My tuner is going to add more cold start enrichment and hopefully it should be all set.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:05 PM   #6547
maxpowr
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i want this...what car is it on?

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Old 10-19-2012, 03:03 AM   #6548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
i want this...what car is it on?

Its off this bad boy....
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20071030/free/71030003
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:33 PM   #6549
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Originally Posted by SkateAndDestroy View Post
This is nice looking. I want to see some factory purpose-built E85 engines. There is so much potential for the octane. I'm imagining a factory turbo Direct injection that uses E85 direct injection and unleaded port injection. Get the octane where it really matters and the fuel economy from the gasoline. I bet you could run a 2.0L ~300 HP at like 14:1, fuel economy and low end torque would be great, with adequate power.

This is what is really interesting to me. Seeing power is great, but real world applications of purpose built E85 engines aren't going to be 500 HP 2.0L <10:1 CR vehicles. I suppose that helps build interest, though.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:19 PM   #6550
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There is a turbocharged BRZ making 400whp on e85.
It is 12.5:1 compression, direct injected.
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