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Old 11-07-2012, 11:26 AM   #6626
xluben
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Stock plugs.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:48 AM   #6627
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidz View Post
What kind of issues have you guys seen with the colder plugs? I have one-step colder in mine...and i'm wondering if the startup or tip-in issues may be because of them.
With a friend's RSTi making around 520 @ 26 psi, he was having spark blow out at high rpms. Stock plugs with a smaller gap solved that issue.

One a couple cars I've tuned on E85, colder plugs were contributing to some cold start and warm up issues that I couldn't fully tune around. Stock plugs helped with that. I want to say that it wouldn't have big effect on tip-in assuming the car is up to normal operating temp. That's probably a tuning issue. From my experience, E85 needs different tip in than gasoline does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PROcede View Post
Sounds great! My car already has the one step colder plugs installed for about 10k miles. Is it the general consensus though that stock plugs are better when on e85? A buddy of mine has warm start issues but not cold start since here in northern cali it doesn't get too cold. Perhaps that's his issue.
You might not notice a big difference with your setup assuming you are tuned correctly or your tuner might find issues with cold start and warm up. I would seek their advice and go with that.

Warm (Hot) start issues are different matter with E85. This bugged **** out of me for a while but I've got it solved now. Subaru roms have tables known as Hot Start enrichment. They cause the ECU to target rich AFRs when the engine is started while its hot. With gasoline, its not an issue but with E85, I found this hot start enrichment was causing misfires on my car and a handful of others I had tuned. I got definitions for these tables and turned off this behavior for my car and the others having the issue and I haven't seen a single hot start misfire since then. Assuming your buddy is having the same issue, his tuner should be able take care of it if he understands this issue.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:40 PM   #6628
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Thanks WRXt4cy! Really appreciate the advice. I have one last question, do you guys think an AOS (Crawford) is going to be needed at the higher boost levels that are attainable on E85 to prevent blow by? My car currently doesn't burn any oil currently.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:10 PM   #6629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PROcede View Post
Thanks WRXt4cy! Really appreciate the advice. I have one last question, do you guys think an AOS (Crawford) is going to be needed at the higher boost levels that are attainable on E85?
No problem.

I'll weigh in on this as well. I did a lot of reading up on how the Subaru breather system works and the various theories about how air actually flows through the system during cruise and boost. I think its a good idea to have something that takes anything out of the breather system air stream that doesn't need to go into your intake. I ran the Grimmspeed AOS for a long time and it seemed to do a decent job but I felt like during hard driving, it was getting a bit overrun. I also worried about the possibility of oil coming up the filler neck during high G right hand turns on the track. I ditched it and compared the Crawford and Moroso dual catch setup and opted for the Moroso. I've been really happy with it and it seems do a great job both on the track and with daily driving. The can connected to the breather lines from the heads mostly collects some sort of yellow fluid that I assume must be fuel (E85) byproduct. It smells a bit like E85. There is usually some gunk mixed in it that is from oil vapor blow-by I believe. The crankcase can catches brown oily gunk, mostly oil vapor mixed with condensation I assume. The Crawford unit would put this back into your oil pan via the crankcase port. I didn't like that idea personally but a lot of people say this won't hurt.

Here is a link to a thread about the Moroso setup if you want to know more:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2371277
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:16 PM   #6630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
With a friend's RSTi making around 520 @ 26 psi, he was having spark blow out at high rpms. Stock plugs with a smaller gap solved that issue.
Same here, fixed my problems.

I haven't had any issues with the crawford unit and it's seen quite a bit of street and track abuse. I don't plan to disect my AOS, but hopefully the coolant running through it does what they say it does. (supposed to prevent water condensation which would be returned to the crank case by keeping it warm).
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:00 PM   #6631
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the stock heat range definitely helped with my spark issues i was having a while back. i recommend stock heat range for sure, but the gap needed will depend on your power and boost level. as those numbers increase, the spark plug gap must decrease...unless you start messing with ignition boosters or ignition dwell times...then that starts changing things a bit.



...as far as the catch can stuff...



the coolant doesn't get rid of condensation, the coolant gets rid of the drain line clogging issues that the 1st gen versions were having.


i personally am more of a fan of an oil catch can than the air/oil separator. i have the peterson fluid systems on my personal vehicle (same as the moroso or element tuning ones). the reason that i prefer the catch can over the air/oil separator is because a catch can is another good early indicator of an issue inside the engine. if you had an issue with the pistons, compression, cylinders, etc., you will more than likely start seeing and increase in the amount of fluid accumulation. if you have the same issue with an air/oil separator, it will go unnoticed longer (and possibly cause increased and more widespread damage) because the increased blowby is now being recycled back to the oil pan. i am not against air/oil separators anymore than i am against not having an oil pressure gauge. you don't necessarily need to have that early indicator of a problem, but it is definitely a nice thing to have.


...that is just my personal opinion, and its what i usually tell my customers.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:12 PM   #6632
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What are ur plugs gapped at with ur power level?
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:27 PM   #6633
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without an ignition booster, i had them gapped to .024; with an ignition booster, i have them gapped to .026. at those gaps i have occasional misfires at idle, but once it is above idle it runs great and makes great power. gapped smaller (.022 without the booster and .024 with it), it reduces/gets rid of the misfires at idle, but it doesn't make quite as much power or feel as responsive.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:23 PM   #6634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover
without an ignition booster, i had them gapped to .024; with an ignition booster, i have them gapped to .026. at those gaps i have occasional misfires at idle, but once it is above idle it runs great and makes great power. gapped smaller (.022 without the booster and .024 with it), it reduces/gets rid of the misfires at idle, but it doesn't make quite as much power or feel as responsive.
Ur not running Speed Density or anything right?
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:29 AM   #6635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
With a friend's RSTi making around 520 @ 26 psi, he was having spark blow out at high rpms. Stock plugs with a smaller gap solved that issue.

One a couple cars I've tuned on E85, colder plugs were contributing to some cold start and warm up issues that I couldn't fully tune around. Stock plugs helped with that. I want to say that it wouldn't have big effect on tip-in assuming the car is up to normal operating temp. That's probably a tuning issue. From my experience, E85 needs different tip in than gasoline does.



You might not notice a big difference with your setup assuming you are tuned correctly or your tuner might find issues with cold start and warm up. I would seek their advice and go with that.

Warm (Hot) start issues are different matter with E85. This bugged **** out of me for a while but I've got it solved now. Subaru roms have tables known as Hot Start enrichment. They cause the ECU to target rich AFRs when the engine is started while its hot. With gasoline, its not an issue but with E85, I found this hot start enrichment was causing misfires on my car and a handful of others I had tuned. I got definitions for these tables and turned off this behavior for my car and the others having the issue and I haven't seen a single hot start misfire since then. Assuming your buddy is having the same issue, his tuner should be able take care of it if he understands this issue.
That is exactly what i needed...the car runs perfectly when it warms up. On cold start there is a bit of a hard start, but most of that i contribute to the E85 itself burning cooler and lack of TGV. But there is a tip-in issue and bit of rough idle when the car is cold. Before i took it back to the tuner and had them check it, i wanted to make sure it wasn't because of the cold plugs i installed by mistake. Don't want to waste the tuners time. I assumed that the cold running issues could be contributed to the plugs.

Either way, i need to change them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07wrx84 View Post
What are ur plugs gapped at with ur power level?
Plugs are currently gapped at .28, no misfire or spark drop issues when the car is warmed up.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:32 PM   #6636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07wrx84 View Post
Ur not running Speed Density or anything right?
nope...still running the stock location style maf intake.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:59 PM   #6637
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As far as I know im stock gap with coppers and on SD and at first I had few misfires at idle. My idle rpm is bout 1100 anything lower car would die! But haven't had any issues as of late!
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:18 PM   #6638
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One heat range colder gapped at 025". Running a 20g at 25 psi.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:07 PM   #6639
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Hey Guys -

I am running into some of the same issues mentioned here in regards to the cold start/warm up issues. No issues while driving or under boost, only at idle.

Recently had the car re-tuned with ID2000s, and added a top mount oil cooler.

Since then I am having rough idle issues and a random occasional misfire (not specific any one cylinder) during my commute in the mornings. (15 miles from home to work). Tge misfires only happen while sitting, not while moving. Occur maybe once every 3-4 weeks it seems.

We've checked literally everything else we could think of except the plugs. I am running one step colder iridiums and am thinking this combined with the oil cooler and e85 is not allowing the car to warm up properly during my short commute.

If I drive any substantial distance (say 30 miles one way for example) the car idles perfectly and has no issues.

I want to switch back to the standard temp iridium plugs to see if they help but am reading I should be running a lower gap due to my power levels. Can you order the NGK Iridiums in a .26 gap since you are not supposed to gap the iridium plugs? I am going to get a hold of my tuner and see what he says, but wanted to throw the question out to you as well.

Specs:
e85
ID 2000s
NGK Iridium one step colder
422whp
Hybrid tune using the MAF up to 2psi then switching over to SD after.
Blow through MAF setup
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:26 PM   #6640
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:21 PM   #6641
yamahaSHO
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Iridium are pretty easy to gap; you just have to be cautious.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:08 PM   #6642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO
Iridium are pretty easy to gap; you just have to be cautious.
Exactly and then you don't have to change them every year
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:25 PM   #6643
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changing plugs isn't that bad at all, i usually use that opportunity to do a compression test, and there are downsides to the iridiums just like the coppers (the copper's being having to change them once a year).
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:12 PM   #6644
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Hello everyone. New E85 onlooker here. I've read through quite a bit of this thread and have learned quite a bit. Looking forward to the switch.

What my mod list will be when I switch over:

EJ205
VF23
850cc injectors
upgraded fuel pump
TGV deletes (ported and polished)
Ported and polished intake and exhaust manifolds
SPT exhaust, no cats
Perrin v1 fuel rails (only because they were free)

I've done a leak down test and a compression test. Both came out great (lowest cylinder was 157, highest was 161, and the engine lost 3% on the leak down test when pressurized for half an hour). Is there anything I need to look at before switching fuels? And yes, I'll have my tuner (Agile Auto) make the maps for me.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:26 PM   #6645
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What using for boost control?
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:42 PM   #6646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svynx
Hello everyone. New E85 onlooker here. I've read through quite a bit of this thread and have learned quite a bit. Looking forward to the switch.

What my mod list will be when I switch over:

EJ205
VF23
850cc injectors
upgraded fuel pump
TGV deletes (ported and polished)
Ported and polished intake and exhaust manifolds
SPT exhaust, no cats
Perrin v1 fuel rails (only because they were free)

I've done a leak down test and a compression test. Both came out great (lowest cylinder was 157, highest was 161, and the engine lost 3% on the leak down test when pressurized for half an hour). Is there anything I need to look at before switching fuels? And yes, I'll have my tuner (Agile Auto) make the maps for me.
I ran similar setup and was happy with the results if you look in my posted threads youll see my dyno and mod list. If it doesn't break the bank look into ewg, always a good addition.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:31 AM   #6647
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Last edited by jnorth85; 11-12-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:24 PM   #6648
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^^what kind of heads on that to stop the pull so early (rpm wise)?
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:28 PM   #6649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irv Weissmanhowerton View Post
^^what kind of heads on that to stop the pull so early (rpm wise)?
Its a completely stock 05 STi long block. I told the dyno operator to let off at 6700 but I think the tach if off a bit or he lifted too early. It winds out pretty quick.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:20 PM   #6650
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What turbo?
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