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Old 11-27-2012, 05:32 PM   #6676
WRXt4cy
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Is that Rockit's old car? if so then you got a great car!
It sure is!

He is an awesome guy and yes, its a great car that was done right.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:52 PM   #6677
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This car is awesome and even better on E85!! I love my RSTI but it makes me want to build a 207 car!
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:01 PM   #6678
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This car is awesome and even better on E85!! I love my RSTI but it makes me want to build a 207 car!
Your hooked haha
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:13 PM   #6679
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:32 PM   #6680
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My WOT AFR seems to lean out a bit over a period of a few months. I have done so many MAF tabs and it never shows that much correction after I interpolate it. I've worked on the lower voltage values a tad bit to try and eliminate some idle oscillation.

I pulled an injector today and it's perfectly clean. I'm wondering if it's the long term trims, or if it's a loss of fuel pressure. Any general guidelines as to what I should look at next? I'm going to double check that there is no leak between the MAF and turbo this weekend to try and eliminate that.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:27 AM   #6681
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are your load values or maf volts the same as they were a few months ago? with the colder weather now vs. a few months ago, you could possibly be seeing higher load values or maf volts that were improperly estimated before.

also remember that the maf tab as well as learned fuel corrections are only performed in closed loop not open loop. so the corrections you see or don't see in the maf tab and learning view are completely irrelevant during WOT situations.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:44 AM   #6682
340Duster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
are your load values or maf volts the same as they were a few months ago? with the colder weather now vs. a few months ago, you could possibly be seeing higher load values or maf volts that were improperly estimated before.

also remember that the maf tab as well as learned fuel corrections are only performed in closed loop not open loop. so the corrections you see or don't see in the maf tab and learning view are completely irrelevant during WOT situations.
I honestly haven't logged the car much, I just watch the AFR and look at the learning view every week or so

I understand that. I'm just wondering if the long term fuel trim/ learning is leaning out the OL part vs some fuel issue. Adding a few cc's to the injector scalar will help the issue, but it seems like after 2 months or so it creeps back lean.

All the times I've logged the MAF, they've looked about like below. But sometimes when I pull the LV, some of the corrections will be around 10 or 12% on the most used load section



The weather does seem to screw with it some possibly. In warm weather under part throttle and getting into OL it will lean to 15-16 for a bit enough to hesitate, but if you just go WOT it hits perfectly. I've cut the delay down to 1 and upped the tip in some with no real change to that.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:59 AM   #6683
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i could be wrong, but based on your description and the screenshot above, it sounds/looks like your latencies, maf scaling, or both are off.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:10 AM   #6684
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sackytar View Post
I've had one of these in my car since July. Its hooked to a flex fuel sensor I pulled from a Tahoe in a local junk yard. Its worked flawlessly from day one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 340Duster View Post
My WOT AFR seems to lean out a bit over a period of a few months. I have done so many MAF tabs and it never shows that much correction after I interpolate it. I've worked on the lower voltage values a tad bit to try and eliminate some idle oscillation.

I pulled an injector today and it's perfectly clean. I'm wondering if it's the long term trims, or if it's a loss of fuel pressure. Any general guidelines as to what I should look at next? I'm going to double check that there is no leak between the MAF and turbo this weekend to try and eliminate that.
A few months is pretty long learning period. How much is it leaning out?

I'm thinking it could just be an effect of weather changes but maybe not.

What does your D range fuel trim look like? It affects OL fueling so if its learning to trim fuel from that range, it would lean you out during WOT.

Last edited by WRXt4cy; 12-05-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:37 AM   #6685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340Duster View Post
My WOT AFR seems to lean out a bit over a period of a few months. I have done so many MAF tabs and it never shows that much correction after I interpolate it. I've worked on the lower voltage values a tad bit to try and eliminate some idle oscillation.
Over those few months, what is the ambient temperature doing? You'll find that if your MAF temp comp is off, your car will go from running well one day, to not running well another... Then run well again when temps return to where you scaled the MAF at.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:33 AM   #6686
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so i check online and the only E pump in town says open till 9pm. i roll in on vapors to a station with all the lights out at 8:10. i go inside the closed store and my favorite fuel associate is chillin with his feet up with the owner.

they tell me they closed early cause it gets dead around this time of night/year. i explained that if i couldnt get e85 i would be screwed. i didnt even have enough to get home. i showed them on my phone that their website said 9pm. i put on my sad face and asked politely if there was anyway they could help me out. the attendent vouched for my friendly demeanor and frequent fill ups. the owner looked at me and said, sure no problem...fire the pumps back up. STOKED!

first inconvience with E85 but i still love it!



297.8km = 185miles

15 gallons / 185 miles = 12.3mpg.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:49 AM   #6687
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Wow, NJ is funny. 24hr pay at the pump around here. Although I did manage to set off some kind of alarm while filling up after midnight one time (the inside part of the gas station was closed) and had two cops box in my car at the pump and question me, lol.

I have been getting 17+ mpg now that it's switched to winter blend around here. Normal mix of city and highway. I'm usually around 16mpg in the summer.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:52 AM   #6688
WRXt4cy
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Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
297.8km = 185miles

15 gallons / 185 miles = 12.3mpg.
We've got it good in Des Moines, one of our more popular chains is a major backer of E85 and their stores are all open 24/7 365.

Also - that's some low mileage! Does that include a good amount of harder driving or not?

I usually don't see worse than about 15 mpgs with mixed driving and some occasional WOT.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:23 PM   #6689
340Duster
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Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
i could be wrong, but based on your description and the screenshot above, it sounds/looks like your latencies, maf scaling, or both are off.
I thought that MAF plot looked pretty good, but it seems like it slowly changes maybe as far as learned correction? I'm clueless when it comes to the injector latency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post

A few months is pretty long learning period. How much is it leaning out?

I'm thinking it could just be an effect of weather changes but maybe not.

What does your D range fuel trim look like? It affects OL fueling so if its learning to trim fuel from that range, it would lean you out during WOT.
The D range is pretty much always 0. A-C are the only ones that ever change since D is set to be above 75 g/s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
Over those few months, what is the ambient temperature doing? You'll find that if your MAF temp comp is off, your car will go from running well one day, to not running well another... Then run well again when temps return to where you scaled the MAF at.
I haven't looked at that yet. That is the ****y thing about around here the weather changes a lot.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:05 PM   #6690
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340Duster View Post
The D range is pretty much always 0. A-C are the only ones that ever change since D is set to be above 75 g/s.
I usually set the D range to be above 60 g/s. It seems to be just high enough to not learn very much but if something is affecting fueling such as a slight change in ethanol content or weather stuff like humidity, barometric pressure, etc, the D range seems to pick it up well and can trim fuel as needed so WOT AFRs hit their targets.

How stable is the ethanol content where you fuel up? Do you monitor it? Maybe the ethanol content just keeps creeping up on you.

I'm still interested to know how lean its going on you.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:03 PM   #6691
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I don't have one of the test kits, but around here, there is only one station chain that carries E85. Granted that doesn't change the fact that they might get it from various suppliers.

It's really only off by about .4-.5 over time, maybe less. Maybe I'm just being too anal?

Last edited by 340Duster; 12-05-2012 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:11 PM   #6692
WRXt4cy
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Originally Posted by 340Duster View Post
I don't have one of the test kits, but around here, there is only one station chain that carries E85. Granted that doesn't change the fact that they might get it from various suppliers.

It's really only off by about .4-.5 over time, maybe less. Maybe I'm just being anal too?
Where you are located? A lot of suppliers blend up for hotter seasons and down in the colder seasons to follow the E85 classing guidelines. In Iowa, they have switched to a 70% blend year round due to high exporting demands but in traveling to other states this year, I found higher blends during the summer and fall seasons.

What AFRs range are you talking? If you are staying between 11.2 and 11.8, I wouldn't worry too much about it. E85 has a wider range of AFRs it will tolerate well as opposed to gasoline.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:18 PM   #6693
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Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
Where you are located? A lot of suppliers blend up for hotter seasons and down in the colder seasons to follow the E85 classing guidelines. In Iowa, they have switched to a 70% blend year round due to high exporting demands but in traveling to other states this year, I found higher blends during the summer and fall seasons.

What AFRs range are you talking? If you are staying between 11.2 and 11.8, I wouldn't worry too much about it. E85 has a wider range of AFRs it will tolerate well as opposed to gasoline.
From what I've seen, our region is supposed to get 2 blends. FWIW a friend that has a built turbo Cobra said he tested some in the winter once and it was still the summer blend. Maybe I'll invest in a test kit. It was around 11.3-4 as the target under most of the WOT load ranges. It's upper 11's now. Yeah, I realize that from a safety standpoint it's still not in any danger zone, but it slightly irks me.

Ron, feel free to comment
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:31 PM   #6694
WRXt4cy
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Originally Posted by 340Duster View Post
From what I've seen, our region is supposed to get 2 blends. FWIW a friend that has a built turbo Cobra said he tested some in the winter once and it was still the summer blend. Maybe I'll invest in a test kit. It was around 11.3-4 as the target under most of the WOT load ranges. It's upper 11's now. Yeah, I realize that from a safety standpoint it's still not in any danger zone, but it slightly irks me.

Ron, feel free to comment
I had a LGT I was tuning hit 19 psi (stock turbo) at about 14.5 to 1 AFR and it only knocked slightly until the AFRs dropped to 13.5 or so and the knock stopped before he even backed out of the throttle. We had done a 2nd gear pull which had looked great and the followed it up with a 3rd gear pull when this happened. He had a really dirty airbox and pulled some dirt into the MAF sensor between pulls.

So yeah, E85 has a pretty nice safety margin to it.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:38 PM   #6695
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At 24 PSI and gas-referenced AFR of 14:1 on a VF39 WRX, I didn't have any knock. I didn't want to try any leaner than that.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:45 PM   #6696
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Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
At 24 PSI and gas-referenced AFR of 14:1 on a VF39 WRX, I didn't have any knock. I didn't want to try any leaner than that.
That's impressive.

Did you find any power by leaning out the AFRs that far?
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:07 PM   #6697
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I found considerably less power leaning it out that much.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:14 PM   #6698
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power on e85 starts falling after about 12.3 on most setups that i have done
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:28 PM   #6699
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Originally Posted by PROcede View Post
Here is my final numbers where the clutch wasn't slipping lol. Need to start looking at clutches now because i want that higher tq map lol.

[img]http://s11.postimage.org/4ry24bk8z/20121116_202208.jpg[img]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wXv...e_gdata_player


Appreciate all the advice some of you guys gave me. Can't believe how well this stuff works!
i plan on e85 in the spring, what top mount are you running? how much boost?
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:00 PM   #6700
tyrel.boyce
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I will vouch for anyone going E85 that its way better than 93 and will make your car a lot happier!!! I had so many issues with check engine lights on premium fuel, put new injectors and switched to E85 and a good tune and the cars been never happier. E85 FTW!!!!
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