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Old 03-04-2013, 10:29 AM   #7076
02rex62
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^r these outta your car u just resently got back together?
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:42 AM   #7077
06rexwagon
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Originally Posted by 02rex62 View Post
^r these outta your car u just resently got back together?
no they belong to a friend of mine, and I didn't tune it. Just trying to help him out. I think it was too much spark advance.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:20 PM   #7078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
You dont need the PCV if you have a good and properly working AOS
That isn't true. There are many AOS that are designed to work WITH the factory PCV valve. There are many that don't. You need the PCV valve if the system you are using requires it.

Quote:
What does this mean? The only incorrect part that I installed was the AOS you seem to think works so well!
Again, it doesn't mean anything. Sorry if you took it personally, it was not directed at you, nor is any of this...just having a conversation here. As i said before, i'm not trying to discount your experiences with any of these things...just trying to understand the differences as many of the problems people experience with AOS of all types is incorrect installation. As i stated, it could simply be a case of using a part that's not desinged for the application. I have no idea what it was in your case, and i'm not insinuating or implying anything other than i believe that an AOS would not create pressure in an otherwise functioning system.

Quote:
They are called Air Oil Seperators and if they don't separate the oil from the air that is routed towards the intake, which we use to vent the crankcase then it does not work period!! They have to do this fundamental function to be a working AOS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
Of course you'll get blow by from an AOS. it has a drain that returns warm vapor to the rear baffle.
^^ Agreed.

They don't remove 100% of the blowby from the system, nor will they ever separate 100% of the air and oil. No company has ever claimed that they will. People believe this is what they do and it's simply not true. The only way to completely eliminate it is to not return any of the vapor back to the system...such as a catch can. This is why all AOS will produce some 'sludge'...even though some produce less than others.

I think we just have to agree to disagree on this one. Was not trying to start an AOS war. What i would really like to know is if you guys think that the introduction of E85 changes the way the blowby behaves in the AOS?
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:15 PM   #7079
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I know and I agree with most of what you say squidz and I do not want to beat the AOS thing into the ground.

Lets looks at it this way. If you have an AOS system that does not work well and like some of us on here feel the filler top units have inherent faults (they are too small and you're venting from the valve covers/ heads and expecting the AOS to drain the supposedly collected oil back into the same space) that which allow them to be overwhelmed by BB gases. So now you are pushing it hard creating blow by and crankcase air/ gas pressure, then you slow down or dial it back to cruising or slow down to idle. Now you have vacuum and the PCV kicks in and starts venting. It starts pulling the oil saturated gasses into the intake below the throttle body. We all know that's not good, oil in the intake lowers the octane level of the combustible gas which we all know.

I really believe that the stock PCV system was designed for stock power levels and emissions regulations. Once you are beyond those power levels then I believe there are way better options to vent crankcase gasses and its best to then rework the whole system.

I'm sure your motor is tight and working well so you are not realizing the limitations of the PCV systems you are using but eventually you will!
JMHO

Last edited by manitou; 03-04-2013 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:10 PM   #7080
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Actually... Oil blowby lowering octane may just be another hearsay internet rumor that no one I've ever heard of can legitimately verify. If you step back and do not assume it is true, I would like to hear a case supporting it (seriously, I would like a non hearsay argument for it and against it).
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:21 PM   #7081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
You think that's what could have happened here?
Carrillo Pro H beam rods with under 3k miles on them, E98 fuel, low to mid 600whp uncorrected.
NOT MY CAR, NOT MY TUNE>
sure looks like it.
How much timing were you running at peak boost?
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:27 PM   #7082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
sure looks like it.
How much timing were you running at peak boost?
Not sure, not my tune and I haven't seen the map.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:58 PM   #7083
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you gotta be doing something to bend rods like that. excessive timing, maybe some hard hot laps....bad tank of fuel to much cylinder pressure from something!
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:11 PM   #7084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climberd View Post
Actually... Oil blowby lowering octane may just be another hearsay internet rumor that no one I've ever heard of can legitimately verify. If you step back and do not assume it is true, I would like to hear a case supporting it (seriously, I would like a non hearsay argument for it and against it).
You're right, there isn't really any solid evidence out there but there is a good discussion in this thread with some very well thought out theories and some good facts. Post #60 sums up a few things that I think are important to consider.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1919252

Lower octane or not, I like the idea of keeping my inlet, turbo and intake as clean as possible and I like the idea of keeping any combustion byproducts out of my oil. For these reason, I use catch cans currently.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:40 PM   #7085
06rexwagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchedk7 View Post
you gotta be doing something to bend rods like that. excessive timing, maybe some hard hot laps....bad tank of fuel to much cylinder pressure from something!
E98 rules the fuel out. I want to see the timing map.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:50 PM   #7086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post

E98 rules the fuel out. I want to see the timing map.
Sry scanned quickly!! Yeah but what about a watered down tank? I mean if it was on the edge timing wise and you got a bad tank I could see it then.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:09 PM   #7087
manitou
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What do you tuners on here say about oil in the intake tract? Does it lower octane rating on the AF mixture? Has this been proven?
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:11 PM   #7088
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Ouch! That's got to be some bad pre-detonation to wrinkle a rod like that!
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:07 PM   #7089
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I doubt it was debt if he was running e98.
Remember those graphs of cylinder pressure? All he needed was too much timing and even without detonation the cylinder pressures would exceed the capacity of the rod. Ethanol burns quicker than fuel, so if he was aggressive on the timing he'd have an explosion occurring at a fast rate while he was still adding energy with compression as the piston moved upwards. Cylinder pressures at TDC and just after would be immense.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:07 PM   #7090
06rexwagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I doubt it was debt if he was running e98.
Remember those graphs of cylinder pressure? All he needed was too much timing and even without detonation the cylinder pressures would exceed the capacity of the rod. Ethanol burns quicker than fuel, so if he was aggressive on the timing he'd have an explosion occurring at a fast rate while he was still adding energy with compression as the piston moved upwards. Cylinder pressures at TDC and just after would be immense.
I remember your graphs and agree with you.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:30 PM   #7091
Maxwell Power
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e85+ too much advance =



which means this



Totally sucks man to waste a nice Carillo Rod. Those rods are pretty darn sweet.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:32 PM   #7092
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Here is a little fea on a connecting rod. This is supposed to be compression forces.




This one is what rpm does. Notice the direction of wrist pin flex (and how exaggerated it is)



I stole these from google images, but I recognize them as being relatively accurate.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:41 PM   #7093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
E98 rules the fuel out. I want to see the timing map.
What was the rest of the setup to get the numbers you said it was making? How much torque was it making?

I would also be interested to know what the timing was like if you can find out.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:43 PM   #7094
06rexwagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
What was the rest of the setup to get the numbers you said it was making? How much torque was it making?

I would also be interested to know what the timing was like if you can find out.
~560-575 uncorrected on a dynojet.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:58 PM   #7095
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what do the bearings look like?
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:01 PM   #7096
BigRob74
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i am finally making my step up to e85 in a month. already made the appointment, not going for huge numbers, car only has a 3" DP, nameless 4" mufflers. adding FIC 1100s, DW65 fuel pump and having installed at my tuners shop. dont like the fact my current etune has my injectors 100%. do i need to add an intake, i hear the newer cars are good for 350whp but there are so many conflicts...
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:26 PM   #7097
06rexwagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
what do the bearings look like?
Little beat but not horrible. Worse than I would expect from under 3k miles.
Only map he has. This is from the old e70 tune that spun a rod bearing and bent all the wrist pins at around 4k miles.
Timing was increased for the e98 tune but I don't know by how much. The aem has been sent back to get checked.



Idle timing is strange

Important to note that this is a hybrid engine with oem gasket and Cnc head chambers. Not sure of cr.

Last edited by 06rexwagon; 03-05-2013 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:57 PM   #7098
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wow.

There is your answer right there.

You bent all the wrist pins and your tuner thought it was a good idea to add more timing?

That timing curve is ridiculous. You should have 5-7 degrees less timing than you do in the 20.76psi area (at LEAST).

Last edited by Maxwell Power; 03-05-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:15 PM   #7099
06rexwagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
wow.

There is your answer right there.

You bent all the wrist pins and your tuner thought it was a good idea to add more timing?

That timing curve is ridiculous. You should have 5-7 degrees less timing than you do in the 20.76psi area (at LEAST).
I don't know how much was added but it was a different engine and fuel this time. It did have a weird issue where it would misfire or break up at full boost pretty often.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:17 PM   #7100
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even from 14 psi on thats still alot of timing imo. rather make the power with boost then timing.
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