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Old 04-13-2013, 11:37 AM   #7251
Phatron
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Try stock heat range plugs n a closer gap.

Put some shims or a stiffer spring in your bpv and clean your bpv
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:51 PM   #7252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
Is there any reason your idle timing is so low and varies so much? On the E85 map it is fairly steady, but it is only 10-11*, and on the pump gas map it is anywhere from 10-15*. That is pretty low, and that big of a variance on the pump gas map isn't helping anything either. Try bumping your base timing at idle up to like 16*. This may or may not be CONTRIBUTING to your problem, but it was the only abnormal thing I saw in the logs.
its really not that low. stock idle timing on a 2011 WRX is 12*

For the wrx its
2002-2005 12*
2006-2008 17*
2009-2013 12*

And to the guy with the misfires....log the 4 Roughness monitors that will show you the misfires.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:18 PM   #7253
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First of all you should run the stock range heat plugs with a 21ish gap or less depending on the power for the E85. Check for boost leaks, check your bpv. What's your AFR at idle?
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:21 PM   #7254
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^ you dont need to run a gap that small until your turbo is bigger than your head.

His AFR is in his posted logs. Its 14.7 +-2%
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:28 PM   #7255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
^ you dont need to run a gap that small until your turbo is bigger than your head.

His AFR is in his posted logs. Its 14.7 +-2%
Sorry I thought I read he was running a bigger turbo hence (depending on power) and I'm doing this from my phone so it won't open those.

Hmm we'll I'm going with a leak, bad bpv, stock plugs need to be put back in, or sticking injectors
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:59 PM   #7256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
Is there any reason your idle timing is so low and varies so much? On the E85 map it is fairly steady, but it is only 10-11*, and on the pump gas map it is anywhere from 10-15*. That is pretty low, and that big of a variance on the pump gas map isn't helping anything either. Try bumping your base timing at idle up to like 16*. This may or may not be CONTRIBUTING to your problem, but it was the only abnormal thing I saw in the logs.
Thank you! I will ask my tuner about this on Monday. I'm very happy to see someone actually looked at my logs. I know it's a bit time consuming so I really appreciate it. Just trying to figure this annoyance out before I go back to stock and just live at stock power level .



**edit**

Nasioc app only showed one reply.
Thanks to all who posted. i will ask my tuner on the spark plugs subject. I had asked him originally when i was getting tuned if i needed to throw my stock range plugs back in but he said my one step colders should be fine since i'm running a lot more hp with E85. I will question this subject again though, i believe they gapped my plugs at 30. I overheard the tech saying this but i could be wrong. I'm unsure what color spring is in the Forge BPV since it's been attached to my TMIC since purchased. I will take a look though!

Jdub.csu: My vacuum at idle is normal. I do notice when the A/C is on vacuum drops to around 19ish and the issue is mysteriously almost completely gone. When the A/C is off vacuum is normal and steady at 21 1/2. It fluctuates a tiny bit when the misfiring happens/starts.

Phatron: I was logging 1-4 cylinder roughness and the ones that continue to show some counts are 1 and 3. 2 and 4 very rarely show any roughness. Again this is only at idle with the A/C off. Will try to do some more logging.

Last edited by PROcede; 04-13-2013 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:03 PM   #7257
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I've run e85 at 600whp and never had to go smaller than .028" gap. A lot of people do it seems, but I can't help think that's due to another issue somewhere.

Closing your gap to improve idle makes NO SENSE whatsoever to anyone who has a clue how combustion works.


The gap is exactly that, a gap. High voltage is needed to jump that gap. As you increase the amount of non-conducting material in the chamber (ie fuel and air), you increase the amount of insulating atoms between the two points. This effectively increases your gap making the amount of voltage needed to jump the gap larger. At idle, you have no appreciable amount of insulating atoms between the terminals on the spark plug. Therefor, if you need to close the gap to improve idle you either have the wrong plug or low coil voltage.

Fuel and air don't conduct electricity. If they did, you wouldn't have fuel pumps in your gas tanks.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:47 PM   #7258
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Joining this thread with my first tank of E85. Upgraded my injectors and pump last week. got my 93 octane tune dialed in and just loaded the first E85 map once I filled up at a new, local E85 station. Can't wait to see how much power she makes! Already feels much stronger than 93 octane.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:14 AM   #7259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I've run e85 at 600whp and never had to go smaller than .028" gap. A lot of people do it seems, but I can't help think that's due to another issue somewhere.

Closing your gap to improve idle makes NO SENSE whatsoever to anyone who has a clue how combustion works.


The gap is exactly that, a gap. High voltage is needed to jump that gap. As you increase the amount of non-conducting material in the chamber (ie fuel and air), you increase the amount of insulating atoms between the two points. This effectively increases your gap making the amount of voltage needed to jump the gap larger. At idle, you have no appreciable amount of insulating atoms between the terminals on the spark plug. Therefor, if you need to close the gap to improve idle you either have the wrong plug or low coil voltage.

Fuel and air don't conduct electricity. If they did, you wouldn't have fuel pumps in your gas tanks.
This is excellent advice. Closing a gap to fix a misfire is like putting a band aid on a severed arm. It's trying to patch something that is caused by a bigger concern. Most issues with idle and misfire caused by plugs is simply the wrong plug.

Stock heat range plugs work great in E85 (as i have larned from personal experience)...E85 already runs much cooler than gasoline (thus the knock resistance) and does not need the plug to pull extra heat from the cylinder to increase timing or boost effectively.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:42 PM   #7260
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:41 PM   #7261
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^ Thats a good one!
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:37 AM   #7262
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^ Thats a good one!
Dude was Soo Pumped!!!! 12.1? WHa Wha WHa
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:44 PM   #7263
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10.5.

They clearly don't understand how much power and/or how little weight it takes to do 10.5 on a 4 cylinder.

12.1 on a street subaru is very respectable.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:34 PM   #7264
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Good info for E85 newbies like me, and/or those who are still hesitant on making the move.

Ford-AVL Analysis Promotes Higher-Alcohol-Content Fuel
Posted: April 21, 2013 at 11:51 pm
AVL Powertrain Engineering Inc. and Ford Motor Co. say a gasoline blend containing between 20% and 40% alcohol appears to be a good option for high-compression engines designed for high-octane fuel, Green Car Congress reports.
Researchers from the two companies presented their analysis at last week’s SAE 2013 World Congress in Detroit.
Adding ethanol to gasoline produces a constellation of new variables that impact engine performance and efficiency, the team notes. It says carefully balancing the characteristics of ethanol blends with engine design can produce significant efficiency improvements.
The team says a 20%-40% ethanol blend with regular-grade gasoline would provide high knock resistance. This characteristic could be use to support downsized engines designed to operate at slower speeds, thus improving fuel economy.
The increased knock resistance of ethanol blends enables a higher compression ratio that raises thermal efficiency. This characteristic can be used to offset the 33% lower energy content of ethanol compared with gasoline.
Likewise, increasing the ethanol content also reduces the need to richen the fuel mixture in high-speed, high-load conditions to control exhaust temperature. Both options increase fuel efficiency.
The AVL-Ford team concludes that the impact of higher ethanol blends on engine emissions is relatively neutral in modern engines.

Last edited by V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN; 04-22-2013 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:27 PM   #7265
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Last year Ford made an official statement saying they have achieved the same or better fuel economy on E85 than E10 with some of their ecoboost engines.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:01 PM   #7266
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I drove my XTI down to Cinci a couple weeks ago and decided to leave it on the 560 WHP E85 map just to see how it did on the highway fuel wise. My motor's calculated CR is around 9.5-9.6:1 with the custom MPS LR 2.5 short block and my PnP'd, big valve D25 heads. I did behave myself pretty well and mostly stayed out of higher boost. I got an almost astounding 21 mpg! It really surprised me.

The next couple of tanks saw a bit more spirited driving with more boost in the 24-26 psi range mixed with constant throttle cruising but I still got 16-18 mpg.
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:35 PM   #7267
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Manitou I gotta come see this thing in Detroit. Sounds Badass.
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:52 PM   #7268
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With my 500+whp bugeye I was seeing 23mpg on the interstate with cruise set at 80. It was running 9.77:1 CR. Sad that I got better gas mileage in my 500whp bugeye on E85 at 80mph than I do in my 09 FXT on 93oct. The FXT on E85 doesn't even get over 20mpg at 80mph. Apparently the combo of the baby turbo always able to spool and the lower compression compared to my bugeye makes a big difference in fuel economy.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:31 PM   #7269
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Quote:
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Manitou I gotta come see this thing in Detroit. Sounds Badass.
Thanks man, it's pretty fun and unsuspecting to most! I live near Cedar west of Traverse City but my car has resided in the Detroit since last October. Yeah, we should get a group together for some fun in Detroit. Levon "Layvon" and I have talked about getting together with Angel and his buds at either Milan or Lapeer. We've also talked about heading to Mid Michigan Motorplex with Darius, "4warned"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
With my 500+whp bugeye I was seeing 23mpg on the interstate with cruise set at 80. It was running 9.77:1 CR. Sad that I got better gas mileage in my 500whp bugeye on E85 at 80mph than I do in my 09 FXT on 93oct. The FXT on E85 doesn't even get over 20mpg at 80mph. Apparently the combo of the baby turbo always able to spool and the lower compression compared to my bugeye makes a big difference in fuel economy.
Amalgrover, there is no doubt about the higher compression ratio and bigger turbo combo being the way to go with e85. The off boost response of the higher CR combined with the larger turbo works well to net decent gas mileage if you can use some restraint! Junior likes to tune to this combo!! I'm sure your Forester will morph into something more of your vision!
Allan
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:55 PM   #7270
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next time you head to cinncy shoot me a pm I live an hour and a half north of that.Maybe we can meet up and check out each others setups.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:11 AM   #7271
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Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
next time you head to cinncy shoot me a pm I live an hour and a half north of that.Maybe we can meet up and check out each others setups.
I'm heading there this week. I have to be in Cinci for the Flying Pig Marathon Expo to set up on Thursday afternoon. I'll work the expo all day on Friday and Saturday and head back north Saturday evening.

PM me if you want to try and meet up!
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:34 PM   #7272
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what the heck is the flying pig expo?
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:05 PM   #7273
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what the heck is the flying pig expo?
The flying pig marathon in Cincinnati is one of the bigger marathons in the country! There is an expo for all the run/ sporting goods vendors and local retailers to sell stuff to the runners when they come in for their race packet pickup. We'll have 30-40,000 people come thru this expo. One of my bigger running retailers sets up a big booth and asks us (reps) to come work it with them.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:16 PM   #7274
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Flying Pig had me thinking Pink Floyd.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:23 PM   #7275
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Flying Pig had me thinking Pink Floyd.
Watching... for pigs on the wing.
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