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Old 06-26-2013, 09:54 PM   #7376
manitou
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The DW fuel pump calculator is a pretty good tool.http://www.deatschwerks.com/resource...ump-calculator
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:08 PM   #7377
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Yeah im going to try the rewire first with the 300lph pump I have and go from there. Are there any down sides to upping the fuel pressure or is it just that my 300 lph pump wont be able to pump any more anyways so its a waste of time. I originally had a dw65c and maxed that out and by adding the 300lph proto type drop in pump I gained a little over 10% idc headroom on that alone so im hoping with the rewire I can get it down 10-15% more and I should be safe. I would go bigger pump but I did the walbro back before the dw65c came out and could never get it to fit and seal rite and don't want to break out the dremel on my new housing is there any other options for direct replacement?
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:22 PM   #7378
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look at fuel pump flow as u increase pressure

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Old 06-26-2013, 10:26 PM   #7379
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Adding fuel system base pressure lowers the volume that your pump will flow. That's why Phatron was suggesting that you go to a bigger pump with the rewire. The rewire with your 300lph pump won't hurt and you'll maintain a higher voltage to the pump but you should run the numbers through a calculator/ calculations.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:38 AM   #7380
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Thanks for the input!!
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:34 PM   #7381
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Adding 12psi to your base pressure is really going to put you at the ragged edge of the pump's flow capability even with a rewire. My advice would be like the others, add a bigger pump. You honestly are probably getting towards the upper end of those ID1000's as well with that turbo. So if you swap the pump out and don't see enough improvement, its going to need more injector.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:37 PM   #7382
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Don't increase base pressure unless you're out of injector, but have plenty of pump. I don't think you're in that situation. If you put in a 465 pump, then it could be beneficial to bump the base pressure a bit.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:16 PM   #7383
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Yeah I think the walbro 465 is my best option if my rewire of the 300lph does not give me enough head room. I wish it was plug and play but oh well also does anyone have any good tricks on forcing that huge pump into that little housing? Or is it the same as the walbro 255 were you just dremal the clips off the make it fit and smoosh it in there lol. Also does anyone know why the e85 version is almost twice the money and if its needed? Sorry for all the questions.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:22 PM   #7384
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What are you referring to as the "E85 version". Maybe these two?

http://foreinnovations.blogspot.com/...omparison.html

I got the 465 "E85" pump and it's a real tight fit in the OEM 08+ housing (tighter than the 255 for sure). The mods to make it fit are similar, but it's just a bit bigger and tighter to fit all around.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:25 PM   #7385
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The 465 fits almost the same as the 255. It pretty much is plug and play. What do you mean by you wish it was plug and play? The e85 version flows more than the non-e85 one, and it also has sealed connections. You definitely would be able to install the non-e85 one (plenty of people seal the connections on their own).
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:28 PM   #7386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
The 465 fits almost the same as the 255. It pretty much is plug and play. What do you mean by you wish it was plug and play? The e85 version flows more than the non-e85 one, and it also has sealed connections. You definitely would be able to install the non-e85 one (plenty of people seal the connections on their own).
You have to splice the wiring vs. actual plug and play with the 255. The 465 is definitely bigger than the 255. It's not a lot more modding you have to do, but it is a much tighter fit jamming it all together.
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:35 PM   #7387
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Looks like the 400 non e85 version is my better option and looks like they can be had for around $110 shipped and will fit better. I must ask about the sealed connections what do you mean by that?
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:40 PM   #7388
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There is no way that 20g is going to max those ID1ks! I just maxed them at 520 WHP WITH A 58 lb turbo, cams, head work etc....

Nate just buy the dam 465 E85 version, do the hardwire and be done with this!! So you have to mod the hangar, big deal it's not the end of the world! Jeez guys
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:03 PM   #7389
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I agree. When I read that post I thought the same thing.

Sounds to me like you have fuel pressure issues. Many people don't get the fuel pump fully seated or they pinch the oring when installing the pump and that leads to lower than adequate fuel pressure. This is more likely your issue, in my opinion.
Also, the new fuel pump housing is more restrictive than the old hanger style. So you may just be experiencing issues from the housing limiting your fuel flow.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:12 PM   #7390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
There is no way that 20g is going to max those ID1ks! I just maxed them at 520 WHP WITH A 58 lb turbo, cams, head work etc....

Nate just buy the dam 465 E85 version, do the hardwire and be done with this!! So you have to mod the hangar, big deal it's not the end of the world! Jeez guys
You don't have the problem of modding the housing on your model its not as easy as modding a hanger unfortunately but im sure you already know that. I do agree that my id1000cc are not going to be maxed out on a 20g and if I want I can bump the pressure to make them flow a lot more if need be. The only reason I don't want to do the e85 pump is the neck at the bottom is longer and will make it even harder for me to shut the 2 pices of the pump housing and further more crushing the sock and causing poor flow imo.

Last edited by nate_fisher; 06-27-2013 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:16 PM   #7391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I agree. When I read that post I thought the same thing.

Sounds to me like you have fuel pressure issues. Many people don't get the fuel pump fully seated or they pinch the oring when installing the pump and that leads to lower than adequate fuel pressure. This is more likely your issue, in my opinion.
Also, the new fuel pump housing is more restrictive than the old hanger style. So you may just be experiencing issues from the housing limiting your fuel flow.
Yeah im pretty sure its in there pretty tight and it did drop my idc 10% over the dw65c I had in there before it. It is a drop in no modifications needed pump so there should not be any leaks and its not crushed like the walbro 255 I had in the past but you could be rite and its just the housing makes it flow less then the old hanger setup.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:45 PM   #7392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
There is no way that 20g is going to max those ID1ks! I just maxed them at 520 WHP WITH A 58 lb turbo, cams, head work etc....

Nate just buy the dam 465 E85 version, do the hardwire and be done with this!! So you have to mod the hangar, big deal it's not the end of the world! Jeez guys

520whp on what dyno and at what elevation though...i also never said it was going to max it, I said he would be getting towards the upper end of them...
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:48 PM   #7393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
The 465 fits almost the same as the 255. It pretty much is plug and play. What do you mean by you wish it was plug and play? The e85 version flows more than the non-e85 one, and it also has sealed connections. You definitely would be able to install the non-e85 one (plenty of people seal the connections on their own).
I see what you mean about the sealed connections and the e85 pump has a sealed female plug coming out of it. The question I have is why does it need to be sealed I have had 4 pumps and none of them were sealed and I never had a problem? The stock pump, walbro 255, dw65c and my current pump all have the standard non sealed plugs and I have never ran into any issues?
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:46 PM   #7394
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Last question I promise lol what would happen if I cut the bottom of the pump housing off so the pump hangs out the bottom instead of being smooshed where the sock is? I keep trying to think of a reason why that would not work since I have never heard of anyone doing it but can not think of a real reason why it would not work?
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:51 PM   #7395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate_fisher View Post
Last question I promise lol what would happen if I cut the bottom of the pump housing off so the pump hangs out the bottom instead of being smooshed where the sock is? I keep trying to think of a reason why that would not work since I have never heard of anyone doing it but can not think of a real reason why it would not work?
For one, you would lose the sump effect the housing provides. Under cornering with low enough fuel in the tank, the remaining fuel could slosh away from the pick up. The closed sump housing avoids this by returning fuel back into the housing and always having some fuel in the bottom of the housing.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:04 PM   #7396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate_fisher View Post
You don't have the problem of modding the housing on your model its not as easy as modding a hanger unfortunately but im sure you already know that. I do agree that my id1000cc are not going to be maxed out on a 20g and if I want I can bump the pressure to make them flow a lot more if need be. The only reason I don't want to do the e85 pump is the neck at the bottom is longer and will make it even harder for me to shut the 2 pices of the pump housing and further more crushing the sock and causing poor flow imo.
No I don't and yes I do know. I meant pump housing not hangar, so sorry for the typo. A buddy of mine has installed this pump in his 09 without much issue and making bigger power. The point I was trying to make was you need more pump. Or maybe Dom is right and your fuel pickup is restricted limiting flow. You don't need more injector for your turbo.

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520whp on what dyno and at what elevation though...i also never said it was going to max it, I said he would be getting towards the upper end of them...
On a VD/ Dynojet setting, 575', 25psi, 55 psi base, 50-100 in 4.19 seconds. He's got plenty of injector. Why do people want to downgrade the ID1k injectors? I hear some say they flow like 900cc at stock BP which is bull****, it's more like 1015cc! They also respond well to increased base pressure if needed. They are some of the best injectors on the market, the best at that size! His solution does not need to be over complicated and he does not need to spend money on parts he already has. He can always add an FPR later if he wants to play with his base pressure.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:20 PM   #7397
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The ID1000's flow around 900. This is well documented online. They are reliable but don't have huge flow. Your increased base pressure is getting you to that power (optimistically).

He may have a pump flow or pump install issue. But at normal base pressure I would think it is possible to get close to macing those injectors.

As for the 08+ housing restricting flow, I found it to restrict the return a lot. But the feed very little. Mine made 600WHP on VD with the 08+ housing and Walbro 465. But I couldn't get base pressure below 55psi.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:28 PM   #7398
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Having discussions about fuel systems is difficult because there are many different ways to set things up.

xluben is correct about the ID's scaling like 900's....but allen is also correct about them scaling higher. Its not a set in stone scaling, it depends on the whole fuel setup of teh car....if its on a walbro255 and stock regulator they will scale lower due to the fuel pressure falling off...if its on a wally460 and a FPR, they will scale higher.

you can basically not really say teh injectors are ever maxed until you've thrown on the biggest fuel pump you can find, jacked up the voltage to the pump, and jacked the base pressure up to 90psi.

In most cases, setting up teh fuel system with smaller injectors and a bigger fuel pump and increased fuel pressure will yield better drivability (especially on pump gas) than running a bigger injector and a smaller pump on a stock regulator.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:34 PM   #7399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
The ID1000's flow around 900. This is well documented online. They are reliable but don't have huge flow. Your increased base pressure is getting you to that power (optimistically).

He may have a pump flow or pump install issue. But at normal base pressure I would think it is possible to get close to macing those injectors.

As for the 08+ housing restricting flow, I found it to restrict the return a lot. But the feed very little. Mine made 600WHP on VD with the 08+ housing and Walbro 465. But I couldn't get base pressure below 55psi.
It's not well documented but questionably documented by some and I'm more inclined to believe ID's published numbers. Let's see you made 600 on the VD Dynojet but that's real, I made 520 VD Dynojet and its optimistic, LOL you're funny!! He's got a 49 lb turbo and he has plenty of injector. Junior made close to 600 Dynojet with an hta82 and turned a 10.8, 132 pass in an XTI using ID1000's.

Still a doubter Ben?

Still this is not the issue creating his lean condition. It's most likely pump/ pump install/ wiring issues.

Last edited by manitou; 06-28-2013 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:53 PM   #7400
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Nate, when you said lines earlier what lines are you referring to? Feeding the rails? Are you using aftermarket fuel rails? You surely don't need to replace your main lines!
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