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Old 07-25-2013, 09:08 AM   #7551
05_wRex
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No worries. Lots of different people in here. Keeping track of everything could get pretty time consuming. Lol.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:10 PM   #7552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post

You dont ever NEED a surge tank for fueling needs....a surge tank has nothing to do with providing extra fuel.

A surge tank is to prevent leaning out due to fuel sloshing away from the fuel pump.

Anyone that races at all, especially anything with turns, should have a surge tank.

This is especially true for 02-05 wrx's that done have any sort of surge box around the filter sock. Any turn below 1/4 tank is pretty much guaranteed to lean out.
Yeah, I made a poor assumption that it was just a dd streetcar.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:50 PM   #7553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Anyone that races at all, especially anything with turns, should have a surge tank.

This is especially true for 02-05 wrx's that done have any sort of surge box around the filter sock. Any turn below 1/4 tank is pretty much guaranteed to lean out.
This... every on ramp. I really need to work on getting the surge box bracket made.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:11 PM   #7554
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Have you thought about trying an Sti surge box? Could probably pillage one from a junk yard
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:15 PM   #7555
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I have the plastic part from a STi. But I need to fab a bracket to attach it to the sending unit piece. I've just been too lazy to pull it out and see how hard it's going to be.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:26 PM   #7556
05_wRex
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What is the consensus on afr for ethanol? My aem wideband reads lambda and displays gasoline afr. This shouldn't be a problem and I should be able to tune accordingly, yes? As in, I understand that stoich in ethanol afr is 9.x and not 14.7. But since the gauge is reading in lambda, it should be ok to tune based on the gasoline afr, right? I mean, stoich is stoich.

So, what are you guys shooting for tuning on ethanol? Same low 11's (gasoline afr) at target boost? Cruising in the same 14-15 (gasoline afr)at range?

Thanks for the help.

Flex fuel sensor is in and tables are setup. The sensor is displaying 66% right now with a combo of 2 gallons of 93, 8.7 gallons of 83% (tested), and 5.3 gallons of 70% (tested). Seems fairly agitate, but I think its a little low.

The car is running great. I think it runs better than pump gas in every aspect so far. I am out of injector though. 93% letting out at 5400 rpm at only 23 psi. I have id1000s and a set of id2000s waiting to go in. I am really considering the id1300s if they ever start selling them.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:39 PM   #7557
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**** I cannot use my calculator on phone... it is like 68-69% so not too far off.

I made assumption 93 was 5-10% ethanol

Last edited by Layvon; 07-28-2013 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:48 PM   #7558
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A lot of guys are rolling their own anti surge boxes.

Still haven't seen a good design. And what material would you use for E85?


I ran into this last year when I was at the track and this year at an autox event.



I really didn't expect it to happen at an autox event. Always happened into a tight right hander. So annoying, and with a half tank of fuel.

Had to run almost a 3/4 tank to get it to stop. Surge tank is needed for motorsports.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:02 PM   #7559
05_wRex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layvon View Post
**** I cannot use my calculator on phone... it is like 68-69% so not too far off.

I made assumption 93 was 5-10% ethanol
Ya. I guess its not far off. I'm really liking this stuff. Haha.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:44 PM   #7560
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Gasoline afr to be safe safe 11.3 ish. Afr to go crazy 12's but that's kill tune style. Around 11.6-8 you'll see the best numbers and tune will look the best most likely.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:05 PM   #7561
05_wRex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchedk7 View Post
Gasoline afr to be safe safe 11.3 ish. Afr to go crazy 12's but that's kill tune style. Around 11.6-8 you'll see the best numbers and tune will look the best most likely.
That's exactly where its at so far. 11.3-11.4. My id1000s aren't enough though, so it looks like I'll be dropping in some id2000s I have laying around. Lol. Dyno tomorrow. Shooting for 600+ at 28-29 psi. Stock sleeves. Wish me luck or tell me I'm crazy...Haha.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:08 PM   #7562
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Nah as long as you have enough turbo you'll be fine. At least I think so. Your timing tuning always looks smooth and not over aggressive.


Yeah when I was on the aeromotive 340 pump and stock lines and id2000's I couldn't even tune wastegate boost on my 35r lol (19psi)

Now with -12 feed and weldon pump so far showing 30 percent duty cycle at 40 psi lol fuel map I mean.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:11 PM   #7563
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What's your email? Ill mail you and see what it made! I might have it already but to lazy to look.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:41 PM   #7564
05_wRex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchedk7 View Post
Nah as long as you have enough turbo you'll be fine. At least I think so. Your timing tuning always looks smooth and not over aggressive.

Yeah when I was on the aeromotive 340 pump and stock lines and id2000's I couldn't even tune wastegate boost on my 35r lol (19psi)

Now with -12 feed and weldon pump so far showing 30 percent duty cycle at 40 psi lol fuel map I mean.
Ya, I currently have stock lines (top feed) and an aero 340 with the 1000s. Pump is hardwired and does pretty good for being ethanol. I have a walbro 465 lph e85 pump waiting to go in...looks like it might be a long night getting it ready. Lol. Should be enough fuel for what I'm wanting...I hope. Lol.

Last edited by 05_wRex; 07-31-2013 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:49 PM   #7565
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I just hard wired a 465 for a buddy and seems pretty decent. I'd say that and id2000's and your good
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:39 PM   #7566
05_wRex
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So far so good! Idc is 58% @ 23 psi (pte 6266) on stock base pressure. Id2000s. Haven't tried higher yet. Should have no problem. Idle is kind of iffy @ 14:1 afr though. Rock solid at 12:1. Lol. This could be because I'm still using the stock fpr. I have one on the way, so we'll see if it helps. Driveability is great. No power numbers yet. My dyno time got pushed back.
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:02 PM   #7567
99STM
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So is everyone here using the Walbro E85 400/465's?
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:33 PM   #7568
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Not everyone...
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:42 PM   #7569
99STM
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Obviously...

Is there anything better for 400-500whp applications?
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:33 AM   #7570
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I am not really sure better is the word I would use, but are there more options, yes. Essentially, ANY fuel pump normally used in our cars will work just fine. The question is will it flow the amount of fuel needed...

I know quite a few are using dual walbro 255 setups, quite a few are using DW300 pumps, quite a few are using AERO340 pumps, quite a few are using dual pump setups with AERO or DW pumps, there are a few using one of these pumps and a Boost-a-pump, and then there are a few with external pumps, surge tanks, and internal pumps with just about every combination of pump available being used in various setups.

400-500whp is a pretty broad range as far as fuel pumps go. I mean, a single walbro 255 will safely and easily get you about 400whp, and a single dw300 or aero340 pump will safely and easily get you to about 450whp. Once you cross the 450whp mark (or before if you just want the extra headroom on the smaller setup) you are going to have to think about a bigger pump like the walbro 465 and a rewire or a Boost-a-pump setup.

Really, in order to accurately advise you on fuel pumps, we need to know what your exact goals are for the vehicle, what boost psi you will be running at, what size injectors you will be running, and what the fuel pressure will be. You need to look at the flow rate of your injectors at 100% IDC. That is the MAX demanded flow. Then you need to look at the boost psi and the base fuel psi. Add those together, and this is the max psi that the fuel pump will see. Then you go onto the flow chart for the fuel pump, and if the fuel pump output at that psi is not equal to or greater than your max demand, then you are going to be outflowing your fuel pump.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:16 PM   #7571
99STM
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Plan is a GT30R sized turbo on about 20psi, maybe a tad more with Five-O 1200cc injectors. I don't fore see having to adjust base fuel pressure but if I need to I will get an adjustable FPR. I can't think of what factory base pressure is off the top of my head, but add 20-23psi to that. I think a Walbro 465lph E85 and a hardwire will suit my needs.

Thank you.

Last edited by 99STM; 08-11-2013 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:18 PM   #7572
05_wRex
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Update on the fuel system. Put a fuel lab regulator on the car. Bumped base pressure to 50 psi. 74% duty cycle at 26.5 psi to 7800 rpm so far. Walbro 465 hardwired. Stock top feed lines. Id2000s.

The walbro is doing well so far. We'll see if it falls on its face when I get up to 30 psi. Lol.
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Old 08-17-2013, 01:31 PM   #7573
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Well guys, finally time for me to post on this I guess. I've been looking for some Blouch 18g-XT examples on E85.

I currently have this turbo, and dyno'd to 347whp on EFI Logics' Mustang dyno on E85. Mods included a built bottom end, 264 cams, 1mm oversize valves, APS 70mm intake, and APS FMIC. Stock exhaust manifold. My fuel injectors (Power Enterprise 850cc) were running uncomfortably high duty cycles, so I switched back to pump gas.

I am now ready to switch back to E85, about to do an ID1000 top feed conversion and AEM 320lph E85 pump. I have also added GrimmSpeed PnP manifold, high-flow crosspipe, and up-pipe with TiAL 38mm external wastegate, and switched to a 3.15" Tomei exhaust and lightweight crankshaft pulley from GrimmSpeed.

I'm just trying to get an idea of what similar setups have done on E85, so I have an idea of what to expect and can determine a target boost pressure. Primary use of the car is road course and autocross.
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Old 08-17-2013, 02:57 PM   #7574
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Originally Posted by BadlandsRacer View Post
Well guys, finally time for me to post on this I guess. I've been looking for some Blouch 18g-XT examples on E85.

I currently have this turbo, and dyno'd to 347whp on EFI Logics' Mustang dyno on E85. Mods included a built bottom end, 264 cams, 1mm oversize valves, APS 70mm intake, and APS FMIC. Stock exhaust manifold. My fuel injectors (Power Enterprise 850cc) were running uncomfortably high duty cycles, so I switched back to pump gas.

I am now ready to switch back to E85, about to do an ID1000 top feed conversion and AEM 320lph E85 pump. I have also added GrimmSpeed PnP manifold, high-flow crosspipe, and up-pipe with TiAL 38mm external wastegate, and switched to a 3.15" Tomei exhaust and lightweight crankshaft pulley from GrimmSpeed.

I'm just trying to get an idea of what similar setups have done on E85, so I have an idea of what to expect and can determine a target boost pressure. Primary use of the car is road course and autocross.
You'll get more.

Sounds like you're on the gimmick bandwagon. Half of what you added doesn't do anything.

Nobody can answer your question with any certainty. There are still too many factors for anyone to be able to give you a real response.

Any answer would be purely speculation and pointless. You already know what you made on that turbo before so you should expect the same to slightly more.

Don't know what your old exhaust was. So telling us your new exhaust tells us nothing.
Porting factory headers is worthless and dumb (gimmick).
Lightweight pulley doesn't yield power (gimmick) and lowers bearing life if your tuner doesn't change your idle timing to compensate.

Improving your fuel system and adding the ewg are the biggest and only real improvements you made.
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Old 08-17-2013, 07:27 PM   #7575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post

You'll get more.

Sounds like you're on the gimmick bandwagon. Half of what you added doesn't do anything.

Nobody can answer your question with any certainty. There are still too many factors for anyone to be able to give you a real response.

Any answer would be purely speculation and pointless. You already know what you made on that turbo before so you should expect the same to slightly more.

Don't know what your old exhaust was. So telling us your new exhaust tells us nothing.
Porting factory headers is worthless and dumb (gimmick).
Lightweight pulley doesn't yield power (gimmick) and lowers bearing life if your tuner doesn't change your idle timing to compensate.

Improving your fuel system and adding the ewg are the biggest and only real improvements you made.
My first post on NASIOC in months, and I get a typical NASIOC answer. Thanks for reminding me why I'm never on this forum, and that there are more douche canoe Subaru owners than I recalled.
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