Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday July 24, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-02-2010, 10:59 PM   #1301
john 1badSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:
04 sti 10.51@138.5
on e85@ 30psi--spinning

Default

spend the money on a 2nd walbro I will send you a y fitiing if you need it and run a designated power supply with a 70 amp relay from NAPA(PART #195)to power the pumps and you will have all the fuel volume you will need.Of course adding an adjustable regulator(jegs-135.00) would probably be needed.The best place to get walbro pumps and supplies is apeusa.com.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
john 1badSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 11:04 PM   #1302
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02RexWI View Post
You guys aren't understanding... at WOT your fuel pump duty cycle is going to be 100%... that doesn't mean the fuel pump is maxed out, it just means that the fuel pump is pumping as hard as it can, and any excess fuel volume is being returned to the tank through the FPR.

You are right that you have to find the right combination of fuel pressure for the amount of boost you plan to run, if you want I can send you the injector spreadsheet I made to compare the two, but you'd have to have a good understanding of the mechanics of the system to understand the spreadsheet. Its already filled in for a single in tank walboro 255 lph hp pump and ID1000cc injectors.
Oh ok, So, how can I tell the pump is done? Can I see it on the datalogs? If so how? how about mechanically? is your spreadsheet the only way I can tell?
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 11:05 PM   #1303
02RexWI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165141
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: WI
Default

You guys who are running dual walboro- are you leaving one walboro wired up to the stock fuel pump controller and the other to switched ignition power?
02RexWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 11:08 PM   #1304
02RexWI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165141
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: WI
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
Oh ok, So, how can I tell the pump is done? Can I see it on the datalogs? If so how? how about mechanically? is your spreadsheet the only way I can tell?
Your fuel pump can only flow a certain amount of fuel, so when its maxed out you wont be able to make your AFR's richer by changing anything in the tune.
The spreadsheet I made will give you an idea of when this will happen and what pressure to run the fuel pump at to get the most out of the single pump
02RexWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 11:24 PM   #1305
john 1badSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:
04 sti 10.51@138.5
on e85@ 30psi--spinning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02RexWI View Post
You guys who are running dual walboro- are you leaving one walboro wired up to the stock fuel pump controller and the other to switched ignition power?
no I have mine hard wired with a 10ga power supply straight from the batt. and use the fact power wire to energize the 70a relay and both modded walbros run 100% all the time.To me it seems safer and more controllable to run both pumps all the time.
john 1badSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 11:31 PM   #1306
02RexWI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165141
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: WI
Default

^Yeah, the only thing i'd be worried about is wear on the pump...
I dont think it would be a concern for cars like ours that aren't likely to be run another 100k miles on the same fuel pump setup, but I would be curious to know what walboro rates their pumps at for life expectancy when running @ 100% duty cycle.

Have you ever considered testing the flow of the pump to the fuel rails to see what kind of volume that system is capable of supplying at various pressures?

If I ever build my car into a high horsepower car and have to worry about fuel delivery I will be doing flow testing to verify the fuel volume is sufficient since that is the thing that has the most potential to grenade your engine after tuning if it fails.
02RexWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 11:52 PM   #1307
john 1badSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:
04 sti 10.51@138.5
on e85@ 30psi--spinning

Default

at the cost of the walbros from apeusa you could switch them out every year and only have a 200.00 expense for ease of mind if you wanted to.
john 1badSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 11:54 PM   #1308
maxpowr
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159243
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: medford nj 08055
Vehicle:
sg3 Turbo Tek Tuned
Hakt Ecu e85 30r 6spd

Default

02RexWI...post the spreadsheet for all. this is good reading.

john...i'm having trouble imagining what you are describing. the pumps are not on with direct power because the factory power wire is only on when keyed up? somehow a relay controls this?

big up to all the guys helping us sort out this awesome stuff.

i already have another walbro, but broke a stud on my gas tank pump bracket...the small studs on the top of the tank that take like 1# of torque, and am not excited about opening it back up.

plus i'm jumping the gun day dreaming here...lets just hope my engine runs for longer than 15 seconds this time...
maxpowr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 11:59 PM   #1309
02RexWI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165141
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: WI
Default

He's saying that the factory power wire energizes the relay which then supply's power to the two fuel pumps.

If i'm not too busy at work tomorrow i'll throw the spreadsheet up on google spreadsheets for all to use... if anyone wants it tonight PM me your email and i'll send it to you in raw form.
02RexWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 12:07 AM   #1310
maxpowr
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159243
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: medford nj 08055
Vehicle:
sg3 Turbo Tek Tuned
Hakt Ecu e85 30r 6spd

Default

i can wait, i don't wanna put you out. i doubt i'll understand it but I WILL TRY!

i will be discussing this with my master , ron , as soon as i can give him a call. he's usually really patient explaining and bringing me up to speed.

again, big up guys for taking the time to share the knowledge.
maxpowr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 12:38 AM   #1311
john 1badSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:
04 sti 10.51@138.5
on e85@ 30psi--spinning

Default

the modded pumps that I run do not bleed off at 78psi like a normal pump they hold more pressure up top so they will throw off your data sheet a little bit.like I posted at 30psi on e85 with an hta86 I am only seeing 68% idc in the hydra.
john 1badSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 08:14 AM   #1312
02RexWI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165141
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: WI
Default

^Your double pump setup wouldn't work with the sheet I made anyways unless you did the flow testing because you cant assume it will be double what a single walboro will flow.
02RexWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 12:19 PM   #1313
amalgrover
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183480
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Valdosta, GA
Vehicle:
2011 Audi A3 Quattro
2009 Forester XT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
i'm averaging about 21mpg highway with 36*...i plan on playing with the timing a little bit to see if i can get anything better out of it, but i am pretty happy overall with what i have so far.
played with the cl/ol delays a little bit and now i am getting about 22-23mpg highway...probably more if i slowed down a little...
amalgrover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 12:29 PM   #1314
Greenracer6
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7962
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Louisville KY
Vehicle:
08 335i TwinTurbo
PSM 02WRX, 97 Dipped CRV

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
spend the money on a 2nd walbro I will send you a y fitiing if you need it and run a designated power supply with a 70 amp relay from NAPA(PART #195)to power the pumps and you will have all the fuel volume you will need.Of course adding an adjustable regulator(jegs-135.00) would probably be needed.The best place to get walbro pumps and supplies is apeusa.com.
Dude! I got the second walboro, submersible tank hose, hobbs switch 30A 12v relay to switch on at 10psi --- I really need the Y fitting and Im done!

How did you do the bulkhead wiring? have one of those fittings too??
Greenracer6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 12:29 PM   #1315
02RexWI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165141
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: WI
Default

Has anyone on here played around with the stock ECU to get it to start better on cold days? I went to start my car this morning @ ~48* F and it took a couple tries to get it to start... almost didn't make it to work on time. I assume I've gotta make the injector pulse width smaller at startup since its usually super rich when it starts until the o2 sensor warms up.
02RexWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 01:03 PM   #1316
wrxsubiemod
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165104
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: name where you like it
Vehicle:
E85 SoCalPorting
Phatron tuned

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenracer6 View Post
Dude! I got the second walboro, submersible tank hose, hobbs switch 30A 12v relay to switch on at 10psi --- I really need the Y fitting and Im done!

How did you do the bulkhead wiring? have one of those fittings too??
Just curious. How do you plane attaching the second pump in the tank? i seen a nice bracket but why wouldnt zip ties work
wrxsubiemod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 01:53 PM   #1317
Onyx10
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 138797
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chitown
Vehicle:
'06 STI
OBP

Default

Sorry to ask this but is there a good DIY on how to make an in-tank walbro double pumper setup? If not can anyone take the time to make a DIY? That would be awesome!
Onyx10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 05:03 PM   #1318
john 1badSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:
04 sti 10.51@138.5
on e85@ 30psi--spinning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenracer6 View Post
Dude! I got the second walboro, submersible tank hose, hobbs switch 30A 12v relay to switch on at 10psi --- I really need the Y fitting and Im done!

How did you do the bulkhead wiring? have one of those fittings too??
I would not use the hobb switch,big al had the reference hose come off the hobb at high boost and blowtorched a cylinder.Just run both pumps all the time for security,just one less component to have fail.
john 1badSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 05:04 PM   #1319
Superorb
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
86% Operational :(

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
I would not use the hobb switch,big al had the reference hose come off the hobb at high boost and blowtorched a cylinder.Just run both pumps all the time for security,just one less component to have fail.
He could always replace 1 pump 1 year and then the next year replace the other pump. $100/year is pretty cheap insurance.
Superorb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 05:05 PM   #1320
john 1badSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:
04 sti 10.51@138.5
on e85@ 30psi--spinning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02RexWI View Post
^Your double pump setup wouldn't work with the sheet I made anyways unless you did the flow testing because you cant assume it will be double what a single walboro will flow.
I was told by an tech at apeusa that when you run the 2 walbros y'd together you get 1.5 times the flow of the 2 pumps not the 2 added together.
john 1badSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 05:13 PM   #1321
02RexWI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165141
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: WI
Default

^That might be true as a "rule of thumb" but I wouldn't rely on that information, it would be easy enough to hook up a pressure source to a high flow FPR and fill a container with fuel for 1 minute to flow test your fuel supply system if you wanted to know exactly how much it is flowing.

**Here's a link to the injector spreadsheet if anyone wants to use it**
Its already filled in for a single in tank walboro and ID1000cc injectors
There are directions on the sheet, but they're kind of scattered. post on here if you have questions on how to fill out the form, but if you can understand the math involved in it it'd be easy enough to trace the formulas and figure it out.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...uthkey=CMvt3EM
02RexWI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2010, 09:19 PM   #1322
Greenracer6
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7962
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Louisville KY
Vehicle:
08 335i TwinTurbo
PSM 02WRX, 97 Dipped CRV

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
I was told by an tech at apeusa that when you run the 2 walbros y'd together you get 1.5 times the flow of the 2 pumps not the 2 added together.
This is right on info, AMS did a flow test of them all, I find the chart every now and then comparing the dual walboros to a bosch 044 vs tank walboro plus inlne pump etc

I think I remember ~380lph volume on boost vs 210 for the single?? IIRC

**There are several hangers that are great for the 6an/8an lines, but for me I'm just using 3/8in submersible SAE rated fuel hose and use hoseclamps or whatever custom bracket in stainless steel to hold it steady. got a extra long wiring connector for the second walboro...

I know AL torched his cause of the hobbs so I'm torn, both the EVOs run a hobbs as well...+'s and -'s to both setups i guess
Greenracer6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2010, 09:33 PM   #1323
wichitalegacy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 116194
Join Date: May 2006
Default

hey guys... Whats the largest turbo I can run E85 on with my DW850cc injectors without maxing them out ?
wichitalegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 10:05 AM   #1324
Superorb
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
86% Operational :(

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wichitalegacy View Post
hey guys... Whats the largest turbo I can run E85 on with my DW850cc injectors without maxing them out ?
What you MEAN to ask is how much CFM can my turbo flow on 850cc injectors and e85 and then look at compressor maps to find a turbo that fits. I have a feeling that you'll max out 850cc's pretty fast unless you've got a stock 2.0 motor. Please fill out your profile so we know your car and location.
Superorb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 01:13 PM   #1325
waynoSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162151
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: IAG PERFORMACE!
Vehicle:
2.6L BLUE THUNDER
LOW&WIDE&SHAVED

Default

what kinda mpg are you guys seeing with this stuff?
I have a built motor with a 40r, ID2200 areomotive FPR and rails 1 walbro feeding a surge tank then 1 044 feeding the rails. Will i need another 044 with this stuff? i have -8 feed and -8 return back to the surge tank...

thx wayne
waynoSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Motion Lab Tuned: Juanmedina's 2007 WRX E85 ARMY Motion Lab Tuning Proven Power Bragging 125 04-12-2010 02:57 AM
jid2 Track Car - e85 ARMY jid2 Member's Car Gallery 38 01-22-2010 10:44 PM
The Honduran army is the bravest in the world... wrxcelent Off-Topic 36 07-07-2009 08:21 AM
Spacific E85 Tuning thread Here ? discopotato03 Engine Management & Tuning 1 09-09-2008 11:01 AM
Did anyone hear the one about the Italian army and the IRAQI satiation? Asinine Off-Topic 3 09-20-2005 07:06 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.