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Old 03-31-2009, 04:02 AM   #1
shum_87
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Default Did you go to ubc and paid for a parking ticket?

Quote:
Breaking News: Judgment Passed for UBC Parking Court Case

Verdict: PARK ANYWHERE, AND DON’T PAY EVERYBADY!!!
Verdict: The Court ruled against UBC, and ticketing is illegal, and people are allowed to recoup their losses.
More details to come (check this post for constant updates as they come).
[73]
Considering the merits of this matter, it is noteworthy that almost half of UBC’s tickets go unpaid. The person who has been penalized by UBC’s regime is the good citizen whose natural instinct is to trust that UBC has the power to impose the Parking Regulation Fines and pays the fine when it is demanded. There is something fundamentally unfair that those good citizens should not recover the money that UBC had no right to collect in the first instance.
[80]
The Parking Regulation Fines are ultra vires. UBC cannot enter contracts or licenses that incorporate the Parking Regulation Fines. UBC’s common law proprietary rights authorize the towing and storage of vehicles parked contrary to the Parking Regulations. UBC is entitled to collect the costs arising from such towing. UBC cannot, however, rely on its proprietary rights to charge or collect the Parking Regulation Fines. The plaintiff and other class members are entitled to restitution in the amount of the Parking Regulation Fines subject only to applicable defences under the Limitations Act, towing and storage charges and the applicability of UBC’s claim of set-off which has yet to be resolved.
Source: http://aermarketing.com/aerblog/?p=102



CN: it was illegal for UBC to issue tickets to cars parked illegally on the UBC campus. if you have ever paid for a parking ticket, you can get your money back.

I don't know the details of how you get your money back, but I thot I'd share this news.

fyi: before the verdict of this case, ubc refused to give my friend his degree upon his graduation until he paid one outstanding parking ticket.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:06 AM   #2
cococly
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I spotted a blue Impreza with quite a few UBC parking tickets somewhere in Vancouver.

I wonder who drives that car :S. [ P.S. : Not my car ]

Last edited by cococly; 03-31-2009 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:22 PM   #3
mynxi
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Hmm that's interesting, I wonder if you can get money back.... let me look into that.
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:34 PM   #4
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Hold on to your asses, I smell an appeal coming up.
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:45 PM   #5
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hmmmm... i wonder if bcit can issue something like that... is the UBC campus controlled by impark?
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:51 PM   #6
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So I no longer have to pay for parking when I park on UBC campus??? Sweet! I hope they do the same thing for SFU... stupid SFU
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:29 PM   #7
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So does that there is no point in paying for parking on the surface lots, such as B-lots anymore? Are they still able to tow it though? since it seems they are still allowed to tow vehicles section [80] above?
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:35 PM   #8
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I love how people or special interest groups and thier lawyers will push ahead with stupid cases like this regarding lack of jurisdiction and then claim it is a victory.

This isn't a victory for the illegal parker... the ruling determines that UBCs only recourse for illegal parking is towing and impounding vehicles. If I was UBC my response would be "fine you guys win. Roll out the fleet of tow trucks". The reciepts for every $200 tow bill would read "UBC can no longer issue $20 parking tickets and must tow and impound courtesy of Joe Retard vs. UBC."


Edit: I also trust the legal advice of a group that cannot spell "everybody"
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:12 PM   #9
alcoolaid
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Wow it finally got settled eh. I remember my UBC friends telling me about this like over a year ago.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:19 PM   #10
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Does that mean they can just tow you now and charge you for that instead
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawmacs View Post
I love how people or special interest groups and thier lawyers will push ahead with stupid cases like this regarding lack of jurisdiction and then claim it is a victory.

This isn't a victory for the illegal parker... the ruling determines that UBCs only recourse for illegal parking is towing and impounding vehicles. If I was UBC my response would be "fine you guys win. Roll out the fleet of tow trucks". The reciepts for every $200 tow bill would read "UBC can no longer issue $20 parking tickets and must tow and impound courtesy of Joe Retard vs. UBC."


Edit: I also trust the legal advice of a group that cannot spell "everybody"
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimbeaver View Post
Does that mean they can just tow you now and charge you for that instead
Wouldn't that be more of a hassle for them then as opposed to just handing out tickets? Unless they have their own tow truck on hand ready to nab people.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:56 PM   #13
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There are many fraudulent cases regarding students buying "gift card" to use as MasterCard for parking ticket(s). Seeing this final verdict, I believe UBC would be happy to just contract a towing company ready.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantec View Post
Unless they have their own tow truck on hand ready to nab people.
I'm sure there are lots of towing companies that would love an exclusive contract at UBC. Can you say cash-cow?
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:13 PM   #15
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shawmacs is right. It only states it can enforce parking regulation by towing and impounding instead of ticketing. If it's anything, this is much worse than before. Would you rather pay 160 per tow or a ticket? Not to mention the risk of getting our cars towed.

UBC is probably happy with this as it'll save them resources even though, they will loose 4 million in fees.

Quote:
[81] Once counsel has had the opportunity to consider these reasons, they should
arrange a pre-trial conference to determine the next steps in this class proceeding.
It ain't over.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:15 PM   #16
Yannerd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawmacs View Post
I love how people or special interest groups and thier lawyers will push ahead with stupid cases like this regarding lack of jurisdiction and then claim it is a victory.

This isn't a victory for the illegal parker... the ruling determines that UBCs only recourse for illegal parking is towing and impounding vehicles. If I was UBC my response would be "fine you guys win. Roll out the fleet of tow trucks". The reciepts for every $200 tow bill would read "UBC can no longer issue $20 parking tickets and must tow and impound courtesy of Joe Retard vs. UBC."


Edit: I also trust the legal advice of a group that cannot spell "everybody"
I disagree, read p. 48 of the judgement.

Quote:
In this case, UBC has conceded that the taking of fines and impounding vehicles is outside UBC’s
U.A.
powers. By extension, UBC does not have the power to contract for the right to take fines or impound vehicles since that would not be in furtherance of a power under the
U.A.
Since UBC has conceded that the taking of fines and the impounding of vehicles was as a matter of public law
ultra vires
the university, contracting for the power to take such fines is also
ultra vires
.
From what I'm reading UBC needs to do their own towing as per the judgement at the end. But yes appeals are coming!
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:20 PM   #17
cococly
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I have talked to one of those parking guys today and he said UBC should be releasing its offical response to the media later this week.

if that guy wins, UBC would be towing any car right away, no warning, no ticket.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:23 PM   #18
Yannerd
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What's also interesting is p. 53-56

Quote:
UBC, as a private landowner has the power under the doctrine of distress damage feasant to impound and hold vehicles which, at the time of seizure, are causing actual damage. I accept UBC’s submission that vehicles parked in contravention of the Parking Regulations cause damage to UBC sufficient to engage its right to invoke distress damage feasant. Such vehicles may be impeding or obstructing traffic or the movement of emergency vehicles; blocking the movement of other parked vehicles; occupying a reserved or handicap space without authority; or parked in contravention of a parking sign, yellow curb, crosswalk, sidewalk, improved boulevard or in a prohibited area. Where drivers have failed to pay the required parking fee UBC has been deprived of revenue and UBC has the right to remove cars parked in a pay lot or parkade who have not paid the required parking fee. Having properly impounded the vehicle, UBC can charge a reasonable fee for towing and storage and hold the vehicle until payment.

UBC’s common law proprietary rights do not give it the power to tow a vehicle, otherwise lawfully parked, because of a past offence. Nor can UBC refuse to release a car that has been lawfully impounded until other outstanding fines are paid.

UBC cannot use its common law proprietary rights to collect the Parking Regulation Fines that it has no power to impose. I note that in most cases the Parking Regulation Fines are well in excess of any notional damage caused to UBC. To take but one example, a person who over parks at a meter faces a fine of $30 in circumstances where UBC’s actual loss of revenue may be less than a dollar.

In the result, therefore, the answer to common question 2(b) is a qualified no. UBC cannot rely on its common law proprietary rights to collect and retain all the Parking Regulation Fines. It can, however, rely on its common law proprietary rights to retain some towing fees and related storage fees.
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:28 PM   #19
geebutbut
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http://www.cfmlawyers.ca/class_actio...assAction.html

Looks like the ruling was in favour of the class...
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Old 03-31-2009, 04:46 PM   #20
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It's not so simple because paragraph 16 states:

Quote:
[16] Towing of vehicles may occur in several situations including for:
(a) impeding or obstructing traffic;
(b) blocking the movement of other vehicles;
(c) occupying parking spaces reserved for other vehicles;
(d) parking in contravention of a parking sign, on crosswalks, sidewalks, or
areas identified with yellow hash marks as no parking zones;
(e) being parked in a pay lot or a parkade for more than 24 hours without
payment of the requisite parking fees;
(f) being abandoned; and
(g) repeat offender status.

..
[18] Until approximately 1996, it was PACS’ practice not to add vehicles to its tow
list until they had 10 unpaid traffic notices and to issue tow warnings prior to towing a
vehicle with 10 or more violation notices. Under this practice, at least 1,000 tow
warnings remained outstanding at any given time. Over time, and with a goal to
improve access to the community, PACS reduced the number of unpaid violations
prior to towing to the present level of four.

[21] Vehicles are towed to an impound lot operated by PACS on campus.....
From the Judges statement, UBC can't really do anything if you are not in violation of their parking policies. IANAL however.

For further reading on the University Act: http://preview.tinyurl.com/dlsqrb

Interesting...
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:02 PM   #21
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...i had no idea there were so many lawyers in the VIC.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:07 PM   #22
semaj
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When I went to UBC my buddy would park anywhere he wanted without paying. When he got a couple of $20 tickets racked up, he would get his plates changed from ICBC

He said it was cheaper to constantly change his plates than it was to pay the tickets, but you had to change the plates before you got enough tickets for a tow.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:07 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostfoot7 View Post
...i had no idea there were so many lawyers in the VIC.
Naw it's not being a lawyer, it's reading the actual judgement itself
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:09 PM   #24
shawmacs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannerd View Post
I disagree, read p. 48 of the judgement.



From what I'm reading UBC needs to do their own towing as per the judgement at the end. But yes appeals are coming!

From the two sections you have quoted I interpret:

1. UBC does not have the authority to ticket, collect ticket fees, or tow or impound (read: boot) vehicles otherwise legally parked because of outstanding fines

2. UBC does have the authority to tow or impound vehicles that are illegally parked at the time of siezure.


Since they reference common law authorities similar to private land ownership, this case may also set a precedent against impark or other private parking companies from issuing tickets... they will just tow automatically.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawmacs View Post
From the two sections you have quoted I interpret:

1. UBC does not have the authority to ticket, collect ticket fees, or tow or impound (read: boot) vehicles otherwise legally parked because of outstanding fines

2. UBC does have the authority to tow or impound vehicles that are illegally parked at the time of siezure.


Since they reference common law authorities similar to private land ownership, this case may also set a precedent against impark or other private parking companies from issuing tickets... they will just tow automatically.
The issue came down to the fact that UBC is incorporated under the University Act and under that act the board doesn't have the authority to enforce the Parking Regulations Act. However, at the end of the day UBC owns the property therefore it has the authority to remove vehicles illegally (ie didn't pay or improperly parked) parked on its property as a private land owner. I think the difference is corporations are different because they're incorporated under the Business Corporations Act which says that a corporation has the capacity and rights, powers and privileges of an individual of full capacity whereas UBC under the UA is only a legal entity but only for the limited purpose of exercising its powers in carrying out its duties and functions as per the UA (see para. 47).

That means it was a matter of whether or not UBC can enter into valid and enforceable contractual regulations which are beyond what is written in the UA (see para. 37).
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