Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday September 2, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-14-2002, 10:53 PM   #1
DDMan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11221
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rocklin, California
Vehicle:
2002 2.5 RS
Black as Midnight!!!

Default Pulley's or ProECM?

Ok, so im lookin into something else for my car, and now I'v come down to the decision of either the ProECM chip or the N1 3 lightweight pulley set.

Which system would give more of a power gain, I'm really leaning towards the pulleys
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
DDMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2002, 11:10 PM   #2
Pikeadon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4422
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: College Station, TX
Vehicle:
00 RS
Yellow

Default

do both I plan on getting both to go along with an intake and exhaust, should add a little extra power. The pullies will help your engine response and there is the theory/fact that for every pound off the pullies it free up 2.7 hp so with the N1 pullies it could give an additional 10.8hp. Where in the power band this power is I don't know. I will find out in the future when I get them. The pro ecm is supposed to help gain torque and most of the people who have it are happy, thus why I also plan on getting this. Dam I cant wait for this semester to be over so I can go back to working full time, I need mod money
Pikeadon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2002, 11:57 PM   #3
Subie Trials
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 14013
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Flossmoor, IL
Vehicle:
2002 impreza 2.5 TS
White 5spd

Default

I'd go with the pulleys before the chip. I just put the pulleys on my car and they rock. I feel that they do a lot more for daily driving then the chip will. My car revs a lot quicker and its a lot easier to rev match with the pulleys then stock. I'd wait till i get some more mods till you put a chip on. The pulleys will make your car feel a lot faster unless you are looking more towards top end power.
Subie Trials is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 12:41 AM   #4
DDMan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11221
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rocklin, California
Vehicle:
2002 2.5 RS
Black as Midnight!!!

Default

Thats what I'm thinking

I already have the intake and cat-back exhaust... All I really need now in pulleys, headers, and then probly the chip.
DDMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 02:07 AM   #5
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: haha XD
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru 599 :P
Galaxy Blue Sexy

Default

Oooh, I hope you get either one, Im curious as to the before/after results
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 08:47 AM   #6
DanzBorin
Subaru Bounty Hunter
Moderator
 
Member#: 7131
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston - Back in the Alief
Vehicle:
2008 STi DGM (3rd
STI) prev 05 STi (white)

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Kostamojen
Oooh, I hope you get either one, Im curious as to the before/after results
The chip improves throttle response and torque throughout the band, but especially midrange. The car seems to pull out of corners faster and you get better pull at partial or full throttle. Don't have pulleys yet, so you'll have to ask these guys.
DanzBorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 07:53 PM   #7
Kevin Thomas
Street Racing Instructor
Moderator
 
Member#: 110
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX
Vehicle:
1989 1989 XT6

Default Vice Versa

Quote:
Originally posted by DanzBorin


The chip improves throttle response and torque throughout the band, but especially midrange. The car seems to pull out of corners faster and you get better pull at partial or full throttle. Don't have pulleys yet, so you'll have to ask these guys.
The PULLEY improves throttle response and torque throughout the band, but especially midrange. The car seems to pull out of corners faster and you get better pull at partial or full throttle. Don't have pulleys yet, so you'll have to ask these guys.

The exact same could be said about both.

Last edited by Kevin Thomas; 04-16-2002 at 02:40 AM.
Kevin Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 09:20 PM   #8
obyone
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16523
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Inbetween Hesco's and T-walls
Vehicle:
JDM Maxxpro

Default

Which is easier to install?
obyone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 12:23 AM   #9
DDMan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11221
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rocklin, California
Vehicle:
2002 2.5 RS
Black as Midnight!!!

Default

Dunno, depends on your preference.

Pulleys are a few bolts and re-tensioning the belts. If you have a 5MT its really easy to get the crank pulley off.

The proECM requires cutting and soldering wires on the ECU.

So if out are mechanichally inclined, the pulleys. Electrically inclined, the chip.

Overall, I would think that they are equally about as easy for the DIY'er

Oh, and on a final note, I'v decided to get the pulleys because of the ease of install and ability to convert to stock if necessary. Plus the black pulleys LOOK stock, so no one would notice.
DDMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 12:45 AM   #10
SoobATV
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6883
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Manchester, NH
Vehicle:
MY04 Foz XS
MY02 Imp TS

Default

I'd do the pullies first... free up some hp that you already HAVE rather than work the system for more.
SoobATV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 02:12 AM   #11
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: haha XD
Vehicle:
2013 Subaru 599 :P
Galaxy Blue Sexy

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by DanzBorin
The chip improves throttle response and torque throughout the band, but especially midrange. The car seems to pull out of corners faster and you get better pull at partial or full throttle. Don't have pulleys yet, so you'll have to ask these guys.
Well I know what everyone says about it, but since he lives on the other side of town from me Ill get to witness the difference first hand as opposed to reading about it
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 08:52 AM   #12
DanzBorin
Subaru Bounty Hunter
Moderator
 
Member#: 7131
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston - Back in the Alief
Vehicle:
2008 STi DGM (3rd
STI) prev 05 STi (white)

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by DDMan
The proECM requires cutting and soldering wires on the ECU.

So if out are mechanichally inclined, the pulleys. Electrically inclined, the chip.
You don't have to solder. I just used the connectors they supplied. You don't have to be electrically inclined. Neither are hard, but the chip is definately easier...
DanzBorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 11:22 AM   #13
Mr. Rogers
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 17028
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Patiently Waiting for an 05 Legacy STI.
Vehicle:
2002 2.5 TS wagon
Black

Default

Am new to subies but why not toss my 2 cents in. Yeah am not bored either!, anyhow, in my previous car I had a UR Pulley and I came acroos a problem while sitting at a stop light. With my radio on, lights and A/C my cra decided it didn't have enough power. Apparently while the car is not in motion my accessories (incl. TV , yes I had one) were running off of the battery directly. Has anyone had this problem ? thats why I scratched the pulley off my mod list. If decide to do any I.C.E. it will cripple my car.
Mr. Rogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 11:43 AM   #14
Yebisu69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11989
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2006 LegacyGT LTD
Brilliant Metallic Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Karlos
Am new to subies but why not toss my 2 cents in. Yeah am not bored either!, anyhow, in my previous car I had a UR Pulley and I came acroos a problem while sitting at a stop light. With my radio on, lights and A/C my cra decided it didn't have enough power. Apparently while the car is not in motion my accessories (incl. TV , yes I had one) were running off of the battery directly. Has anyone had this problem ? thats why I scratched the pulley off my mod list. If decide to do any I.C.E. it will cripple my car.
Hey Karlos,

They are not talking about a UR pulley. They are talking about the N1 Pulley set, which replaces 3 pulleys.

Supposedly, the EJ25 engine (which you have) has very little crankshaft vibration by design and will not suffer with the absence of the harmonic balancer.

The N1 Set is not underdriven so the lights and electrical systems are not affected at idle, supposedly.

There is currently no hard before and after data by either manufacturers, N1 and proECM.

These guys here are the test pilots, pioneers, guinea pigs, chimpanzees, or whatever you want to call em.


I await thier results.

By the way, my proECM chip just arrived.

I am going to do a G-tech test run (I only have a ganzflow), before and after I install the chip to see what we can measure.

The stromung dual tip is sitting in my living room. I await my intermediate pipe and random tech high-flow cat.

Still got to get headers.
Yebisu69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 11:57 AM   #15
DanzBorin
Subaru Bounty Hunter
Moderator
 
Member#: 7131
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston - Back in the Alief
Vehicle:
2008 STi DGM (3rd
STI) prev 05 STi (white)

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Yebisu69
By the way, my proECM chip just arrived.

I am going to do a G-tech test run (I only have a ganzflow), before and after I install the chip to see what we can measure.
I am interested to see how you like the ProECM. But be warned even if you try to help and put up #'s, people who normally flame the chip will flame you for some reason or another...
DanzBorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 12:12 PM   #16
DDMan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11221
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rocklin, California
Vehicle:
2002 2.5 RS
Black as Midnight!!!

Default

attn Yebisu69:

Thats pretty much the same setup I have, without the random tech cat, and I have the PDM intake instead of the Gansflow.

I'll see if I can borrow my friends g-tech and do some before and after tests also....

I mean, hell if we have about the same setup, then we should be pretty comparable in the tests since we are both using the same equipment....assuming you have a 5MT.
DDMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 12:34 PM   #17
Yebisu69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11989
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2006 LegacyGT LTD
Brilliant Metallic Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by DDMan
attn Yebisu69:

Thats pretty much the same setup I have, without the random tech cat, and I have the PDM intake instead of the Gansflow.

I'll see if I can borrow my friends g-tech and do some before and after tests also....

I mean, hell if we have about the same setup, then we should be pretty comparable in the tests since we are both using the same equipment....assuming you have a 5MT.
Almost, I got the 4EAT slushbox. So I should be a full second behind all your readings.

I really think that Dave at proECM should be doing these tests with a dyno. If you think about it, almost all his costs are R&D. The production costs are nominal and the rest is profit.

Would be nice if we don't have to be the test monkeys.
Yebisu69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 01:02 PM   #18
proecm
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12081
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Colorado Springs
Default

>I really think that Dave at proECM should be doing these tests
>with a dyno. If you think about it, almost all his costs are R&D.
>The production costs are nominal and the rest is profit.

What !!!???
Please don't speculate in what ProECM's costs are, since you obviously have no insight in the matter what so ever. If it makes you feel better I can guarantee you that personally I haven't gotten a dime out of the powerchip sales. Please stay professional. The reason we don't have any dyno number is because of time restrictions, not money restrictions.

>Would be nice if we don't have to be the test monkeys.
I agree completely, however I don't see it as you are being the test monkeys. The tests on the monkeys was done about a half year ago. ProECM would not release a product if it wasn't tested first.

/David

Last edited by proecm; 04-16-2002 at 01:12 PM.
proecm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 11:04 PM   #19
Yebisu69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11989
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2006 LegacyGT LTD
Brilliant Metallic Silver

Default

Whoa,

Sorry dave, didn't mean to rile you up.

>I really think that Dave at proECM should be doing these tests
>with a dyno. If you think about it, almost all his costs are R&D.
>The production costs are nominal and the rest is profit.

What !!!???
Please don't speculate in what ProECM's costs are, since you obviously have no insight in the matter what so ever. If it makes you feel better I can guarantee you that personally I haven't gotten a dime out of the powerchip sales.
You are manufacturing electronic boards. So the cost curve is pretty predictable. The electronics component market on the supplier level is pretty efficient. Economies of scale are in effect. In fact costs are dropping all the time. I hope for your sake, the production curve remains true for your venture; would suck to do all this work and not make any money. I am not socialistic about this at all, I think that if you are not getting any royalties at all then you got a bum deal.

But in the end, you are right. I was out of line, just speculation.


Please stay professional. The reason we don't have any dyno number is because of time restrictions, not money restrictions.
Never said that you didn't have the money for the dyno test. And as the saying goes "You can always make time to get important things done." How long does it take to dyno before and after?an afternoon? Guess it's not too important to you.

>Would be nice if we don't have to be the test monkeys.
I agree completely, however I don't see it as you are being the test monkeys. The tests on the monkeys was done about a half year ago. ProECM would not release a product if it wasn't tested first. My error, should not have used the word test, as that relates to chip aspects other than performance.

Would be nice if we did not have to be the dyno monkeys.
Yebisu69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2002, 12:06 AM   #20
proecm
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12081
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Colorado Springs
Default

Apology taken.
I reread my post this evening and realized that it was a little bit harsh, sorry for that.
I guess I am just a bit frustrated over the fact that I don't have any time over to do the dyno tests what so ever, and neither do my colleges. We are all busy either supporting the powerchip or developing new products. We have a few commitments to customers(rally team) that we cannot put aside, hence why we put the dyno tests aside for now.

/David
proecm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2002, 12:35 AM   #21
Kevin Thomas
Street Racing Instructor
Moderator
 
Member#: 110
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX
Vehicle:
1989 1989 XT6

Default Dave

Quote:
Originally posted by proecm
Apology taken.
I reread my post this evening and realized that it was a little bit harsh, sorry for that./David
Dave,

Relax a bit bud and don't be so defensive. You don't have to be. You have a LOT of happy customers. Just keep doing what you are doing.

Did I tell you that your 'awful' chip is slowly defeating my lean running condition between 5k-6k rpm? It's getting better and better everyday. When before between 5k-6k rpms it used to be .01-.20 lean on my Jumptronix, now it's between .69-.81. It took like a full week after resetting it again and it's beautiful. I'll try to get on a mobil dyno again to see how much power (if any) I've gained back since my last dyno run with the XT6. Thanks again Dave! Excellent product!

Oh...and now I have to fight torque steer for the first time between 2nd-3rd gear. The valve body helps! Hitting the nitrous will be a scary event.

Oh...and for the topic, I think they BOTH are an excellent deal. If you want dyno proof though, the pulley has been proven time and time again on the dyno with all types of cars. You WILL have extra hp available at the wheels after a pulley install. Question is only how much. Throttle response will improve and gas mileage may also improve (same could be said about the Pro ECM 'cept the dyno).

Be forewarned as mentioned above! One time I had my stock radio playing, my air conditioner on, my windshield wipers on and my headlights on and my car felt like it was going to shut off. It was a very humid afternoon that day and it was raining. It was in rush hour traffic and I felt like panicking for a it. I didn't like that at all but the car didn't shut off. Lights dimmed like hell and the car stuttered often until I shut something electrical off. That happened once (rare situation) and I've had my pulley on for god knows how long. Enough ranting! L8Rs
Kevin Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2002, 01:11 AM   #22
Yebisu69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11989
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2006 LegacyGT LTD
Brilliant Metallic Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by proecm
Apology taken.
I reread my post this evening and realized that it was a little bit harsh, sorry for that.
I guess I am just a bit frustrated over the fact that I don't have any time over to do the dyno tests what so ever, and neither do my colleges. We are all busy either supporting the powerchip or developing new products. We have a few commitments to customers(rally team) that we cannot put aside, hence why we put the dyno tests aside for now.

/David
It's all good Dave.

Please note that I have already forked over my money for your efforts.

And, I never said the chip was bad or useless. I don't think I would have bought it if that was the case.

I just cannot quantify what the gains are going to be. And I am going to have to find out via the old G-Tech measuring tool, that is all.

All this while I know my 5yr 60,000 mile pwertrain warranty is going bye-bye.
Yebisu69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2002, 09:39 AM   #23
proecm
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12081
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Colorado Springs
Default

>Relax a bit bud and don't be so defensive.
Thanks for the friendly reminder. I'm trying.
When you constanly have to monitor the board for misleading information, or BS to make sure your product doesn't get a bad reputation for no reason (very important on first product), you become defensive very easily.

Sorry again.

>All this while I know my 5yr 60,000 mile pwertrain warranty is
>going bye-bye.

The only warranty you should have to give up by installing the powerchip is the warranty on the wire harness, everything else should be fine.


/David
proecm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2002, 11:16 AM   #24
DDMan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11221
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rocklin, California
Vehicle:
2002 2.5 RS
Black as Midnight!!!

Default

That was another reason I didnt get the chip, and MAY not until my warranty is close to being up. If I have a prolem and subaru finds the powerchip connected to the ECU they would flip a lid and deny me any work (this is Roseville Subaru who are bitches to deal with)

At least the Pulleys can be replaced quickly or may not even be noticed since I'm getting black ones.
DDMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2002, 09:15 PM   #25
JSiwek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14909
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Bay Area, CA
Default

Remeber when you do that g-tech after installing the chip that ProECM claims it takes a while to 'learn' the proper ratios and whatnot. You will not feel a difference when you first install it, as it slowly produces gains over the course of a couple weeks (see Kevin Thomas' post).

Just a thought....

Jeremy
JSiwek@scu.edu
JSiwek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is the proECM or TCII legal for STS trojan9x Motorsports 29 03-17-2004 10:15 AM
Split Second VC2 or proECM? HondaH8er Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 25 07-22-2002 02:13 PM
ProECM or JC Torque chip? WRX 555 STi Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 2 04-12-2002 01:04 AM
Scooby Racing TCII or proECM.com powerchip poll! ImprezedRS Normally Aspirated Powertrain 12 02-24-2002 10:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.