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Old 03-31-2009, 09:46 PM   #1
UpSideDownDesi
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Default Stock Hybrid motor limit?

To what limit can a stock 2.5 bottom end and stock heads hybrid can be pushed reliably? I know can't be pushed as much as the STI motor since it has higher compression. What are some of you on here have maxed out there hybrid setup? I was thinking about 400whp-420whp with max load of about 22-24psi? Input asap please.
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:19 PM   #2
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Load is not your psi its a tuning parameter but anyway, but if 24psi I hope its E85 so you don't knock at 24 psi on 93, 400/420whp is right what I thought too. I have a hybrid too. You cant max the engine out like a turbo , but you could blow it up... I could run 550whp on a hybrid block but for how long would be the issue...
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:37 PM   #3
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I meant to say max boost. Well motor only has 9k miles on it, block was bought brand new, and so were the heads. I would like it to last lol. Yes 24psi on E85 or Race gas, 93 pump will be a 22psi map. The turbo i am running is Borg Warner s256 bigger than gt30r and tad bit smaller than 35r. I wanted to see what some of they hybrid guys on here with bigger turbo have maxed their motors too, and didn't blow a ringland or crack a piston.
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:44 PM   #4
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that turbo is very efficient 24psi on 93 pump with conservative a/f or timing shouldnt be a problem.
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:50 PM   #5
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I have a custom built rotated setup with Garrett 3076 .82 hotside on E85, my heads where completly rebuilt for the hybrid which only has 5k miles on it... I want mine to last too I hear you... You will blow your ringland and/or crack your stock sleeve before maxxing the motor out though.... I couldn't give you an answer yet though because I need to install my 6mt to get it back on the road....
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:17 PM   #6
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Really depends on the tune, with a good tune motors around 500whp have lasted for years. While others making only 300 only last weeks.
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:21 PM   #7
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S256 comes alive at 22psi+. Seems like low 400's will be the safe limit on the setup without cracking ringland or sleeve (exactly what i don't want to crack = rebuild the motor lol). Yea i am sure the tuner will be able to keep conservative a/f's, and probably be able to tell me more as he starts working on the tune.
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeed View Post
Really depends on the tune, with a good tune motors around 500whp have lasted for years. While others making only 300 only last weeks.
couldn't have said it better myself. All in all in the end comes down to ability of tuner to tune and trust in the tuner.
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:32 PM   #9
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Might have a little bit to do with how it was driven a little more I would say. It could be the best tune in the world but.....hehehe you got this guy who just blows things up....everyone knows a guy like this btw and knows why his stuff blows up.....

But yeah a good tune and driven right. I am also tuning my setup....

400's is my plan also upsidedowndesi....
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UpSideDownDesi View Post
I meant to say max boost. Well motor only has 9k miles on it, block was bought brand new, and so were the heads. I would like it to last lol. Yes 24psi on E85 or Race gas, 93 pump will be a 22psi map. The turbo i am running is Borg Warner s256 bigger than gt30r and tad bit smaller than 35r. I wanted to see what some of they hybrid guys on here with bigger turbo have maxed their motors too, and didn't blow a ringland or crack a piston.

It takes a lot more to hit your hp goals on a hyrbid than it does on a straight 2.5L. You lose a ton of HP when using the 2.0L heads. You gain a ton of tq, but you lose HP. So 400whp on a hybrid, will take a setup that would make more like 450whp on a normal 2.5L

So no, you arent going to get anywhere near those numbers reliably on the stock 2.5L bottom end and 2.0L heads.
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
Might have a little bit to do with how it was driven a little more I would say. It could be the best tune in the world but.....hehehe you got this guy who just blows things up....everyone knows a guy like this btw and knows why his stuff blows up.....

But yeah a good tune and driven right. I am also tuning my setup....

400's is my plan also upsidedowndesi....
car doesn't get DDed nor do i bust ass all the time i drive nor does it get tracked other than once every season to the drag strip and occasional HWY run ins.
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Old 03-31-2009, 11:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant Autospeed View Post
It takes a lot more to hit your hp goals on a hyrbid than it does on a straight 2.5L. You lose a ton of HP when using the 2.0L heads. You gain a ton of tq, but you lose HP. So 400whp on a hybrid, will take a setup that would make more like 450whp on a normal 2.5L

So no, you arent going to get anywhere near those numbers reliably on the stock 2.5L bottom end and 2.0L heads.
thanks for the input, very true my stock 2.0 head are will kill whole lotta power, especially top end power. Looking up upgrade to semi built bock and a head with p&P and cams in future. I guess till then will be playing safe, and i am sure my tuner will chime in also when reaching the limit on the car.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:05 AM   #13
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I already seen 360wtq and 325whp on my tdo5 18g on this engine btw.... AND that was with boost peaking at 21 psi at 4000rpm and then tappering all the way to14.5 at redline( I was out of injector ) this was on e85, but proves that our high compression set ups make plenty of power I have NO doubt in my mind that if I could have held that 21 psi to redline I would have made 360+ whp too....
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:53 AM   #14
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I already seen 360wtq and 325whp on my tdo5 18g on this engine btw.... AND that was with boost peaking at 21 psi at 4000rpm and then tappering all the way to14.5 at redline( I was out of injector ) this was on e85, but proves that our high compression set ups make plenty of power I have NO doubt in my mind that if I could have held that 21 psi to redline I would have made 360+ whp too....
for pump and race gas my injectors are good (930cc), and i am hoping to see at least close to 400whp. I need 1100+ for e85.
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:41 AM   #15
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how well do hybrid motors perform with after market pistons?
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UpSideDownDesi View Post
To what limit can a stock 2.5 bottom end and stock heads hybrid can be pushed reliably? I know can't be pushed as much as the STI motor since it has higher compression. What are some of you on here have maxed out there hybrid setup? I was thinking about 400whp-420whp with max load of about 22-24psi? Input asap please.
I'm realizing someone may disagree with me, but I really don't believe that a higher compression motor can't be pushed as much as an STi motor within the contexts of what we're looking at here. True, higher compression will result in detonation and knock sooner than lower compression, but within the constraints of 22-24psi and appropriate fueling, you can push a hybrid just as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant Autospeed View Post
It takes a lot more to hit your hp goals on a hyrbid than it does on a straight 2.5L. You lose a ton of HP when using the 2.0L heads. You gain a ton of tq, but you lose HP. So 400whp on a hybrid, will take a setup that would make more like 450whp on a normal 2.5L

So no, you arent going to get anywhere near those numbers reliably on the stock 2.5L bottom end and 2.0L heads.
From what I've seen, I have to respectfully disagree. I simply do not believe that the 205 heads are as much of a restriction compared to 255/257 heads as most think. True you may lose some power, but not 50whp. The port sizes aren't much different, valves are the same. Combustion chamber is a little smaller, but that bumps up compression and isn't so much a power killer.

Now, 207 heads on the other hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
I already seen 360wtq and 325whp on my tdo5 18g on this engine btw.... AND that was with boost peaking at 21 psi at 4000rpm and then tappering all the way to14.5 at redline( I was out of injector ) this was on e85, but proves that our high compression set ups make plenty of power I have NO doubt in my mind that if I could have held that 21 psi to redline I would have made 360+ whp too....
High compression FTW. IMO, of course.

Quote:
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how well do hybrid motors perform with after market pistons?
Very well.
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:58 AM   #17
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Hrmm I see, my hybrid is being built right now with cp pistons and cosworth bearings. I will be running an aps sr50 turbo. Will having aftermarket pistons significantly raise my whp due it being able to with stand more power?
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Old 04-01-2009, 04:02 AM   #18
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Not necessarily. Depending on compression ratio due to the new pistons (not sure what yours are setup for), it should make pretty close to the same power as stock, just handle it more safely.

Now if you're also adding heads and/or cams with the new motor, that's different.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:39 AM   #19
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^^that's my game plan next....heads then bottom end. Either stock heads with p&p and plugged sti cams (easy on pocket) and if money allows at the time...p&p, 272, and valvetrain. Are 207 heads pretty much plug and play?...tunning ofcource.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:42 AM   #20
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207 heads are not plug and play. The biggest issue is whether or not you'll be running AVCS (with a stock '02 WRX ECU, you can't), so it's either blocking it off or finding a way to make it work, and also the 207 cam sensors are three wire, not two wire, so they wouldn't plug directly into the harness/ECU.

Running a JDM ECU is an option, but there might be a way to get the 207 heads to work.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:47 AM   #21
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theres alot of guys at precision tuning in NJ putting down big number on dom 3's
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:11 PM   #22
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tehres alot of guys at precision tuning in NJ putting down big number on dom 3's
on stock hybrid motor? I'll wait for precision to chime in.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:12 PM   #23
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207 heads are not plug and play. teh biggest issue is whetehr or not u'll be running AVCS (with a stock '02 WRX ECU, u can't), so it's eitehr blocking it off or finding a way to make it work, and also teh 207 cam sensors are three wire, not two wire, so tehy wouldn't plug directly into teh harness/ECU.

Running a JDM ECU is an option, but tehre might be a way to get teh 207 heads to work.
cost wise worth doing 207 head swap with JDM ECU or building stock heads?
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:32 PM   #24
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Nothing wrong with building stock heads, plus JDM ECU's might have issues with emissions readings depending on the state.

There's a way besides the JDM ECU, but I can't say for sure yet until I've seen it work firsthand.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:55 PM   #25
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Nothing wrong with building stock heads, plus JDM ECU's might have issues with emissions readings depending on teh state.

tehre's a way besides teh JDM ECU, but I can't say for sure yet until I've cn it work firsthand.
how does no Emissioin required in the county i live in sound ? So going JDM is no problem at all .
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