Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday April 24, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-15-2002, 02:08 AM   #1
Indiglo167
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13224
Join Date: Dec 2001
Vehicle:
02 impreza
blue

Question what's the best engine management ?

TechII $2000
wolf 3D :$1250
Heltech:$1200
I''ve a 98 Impreza L with a EJ20 turbo motor installed and only missing some spark plugs wire and need a engine management for it.
1.Tech II seems like a pretty good choice(except the price and need a laptop) as far as I know it comes with ALL the sensor I'll need right ??? if I'm wrong what else do I need to buy and how much are they ??
2.wolf 3D looks good also specially it comes with the hand programmer and have every thing except the spark plugs wire and the map sensor right? Please correct me if I'm wrong also.
3. Heltech is about the same price with the wolf but missing the hand programmer and I'll need couple more sensor.
I want to know what system will work the best for my car... I can either use the direct ignitions coil that comes with the turbo motor(just like the new EJ20 off the 02 WRX) or use the stock ignitions system that comes with the car.
Please help !!!
If any vendor read this or any of you guys have any of the above system avilable please let me know . Cash is ready
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Indiglo167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 02:12 AM   #2
ac_gohan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1903
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bay Area, I-Speed Tech
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 RS-T coupe
T3/04 Link'd 2 10 PSI

Default

another suggestion is the LINK II.
ac_gohan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 02:20 AM   #3
Indiglo167
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13224
Join Date: Dec 2001
Vehicle:
02 impreza
blue

Default

Link II ?? how much is it and where to buy ?? how's it compare to the others three ??
Indiglo167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 02:29 AM   #4
Andrew
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1170
Join Date: Mar 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Jose, CA
Vehicle:
2005 STi
White

Default

wolf 3d is a rip for what it does (from what ive seen). go with the link2
Andrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 11:27 AM   #5
Indiglo167
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13224
Join Date: Dec 2001
Vehicle:
02 impreza
blue

Default

wolf is a rip ??? how come ??
Indiglo167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 11:55 AM   #6
Andrew
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1170
Join Date: Mar 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Jose, CA
Vehicle:
2005 STi
White

Default

doesnt the wolf 3d only control fuel and stuff. or was that a different wolf. if it cant even control timing than it is a rip. i also dont think its the best piece to use. maybe im wrong. for 1250 i sure i hope i am. i still think the Link2 the most for how much it costs.
Andrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 01:13 PM   #7
RallyNavvie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7113
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Minnesotan in Texas
Vehicle:
2008 Spec B
DGM

Default

I guess I need to read up on the Link II. I've compared the Haltech to the TEC-II and to the new FJO one but not to the Link.

I have a Haltech installed on my turbo RS. You will need a laptop to tune it, but the one I have was only $150. All the laptop needs is a 9-pin serial port and runs DOS. It helps if it has at least a few colors and has Home, End, Page Up, Page Down, etc. keys on it somewhere.

If you buy the Haltech kit for ~$1300 it comes with all the sensors required, except for the MAP. The only sensors you'll use from that kit are the coolant temp sensor and the air temp sensor. You can use the stock cam angle sensor, crank trigger, and TPS. You will need to purchase a GM MAP sensor. You will also need to either tap a new hole for the CTS or make a thread adapter to fit it in the stock location. I welded a bung onto the intercooler for my air temp sensor.

Tuning the Haltech is pretty easy to learn. I have a base map to start you off if you need it. It helps a lot to have a 4WD dyno to tune on, otherwise you can road tune it. I'm not sure if your crank trigger will work though. You'd need to find out if it's the 6-tooth trigger or the finer tooth one on CA-spec models.

~Garrett
RallyNavvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 01:14 PM   #8
Indiglo167
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13224
Join Date: Dec 2001
Vehicle:
02 impreza
blue

Default

I think the wolf 3D will do every thing the others will do also .... may be I'm wrong.
and www.bspecusa.com is selling them for $1250 but I've try e-mail them many times and no respond.
Indiglo167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 01:17 PM   #9
Indiglo167
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13224
Join Date: Dec 2001
Vehicle:
02 impreza
blue

Default

Garrett : I think my car use the CA spec crank trigger..... is this means I'll need another sensor to get it work ??
Indiglo167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 01:35 PM   #10
Really_Soaked
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 4992
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Revelstoke BC, CANADA
Vehicle:
2000 Impreza 2.5 RS
Blue Ridge Pearl

Default

Also DTA Fast.

http://www.dtafast.co.uk - edit (real url)

It offers some killer features for a good price point.
Really_Soaked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 01:43 PM   #11
Andrew
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1170
Join Date: Mar 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Jose, CA
Vehicle:
2005 STi
White

Default

i was with some locla buddies when they tuned a WRX and I was impressed by the Link's software. everything is real time, even the tuning is in realtime. ti will display where you are at on MAP and Ignition tables so you can tune it exactly at that point that you are having problems with instead of guessing.

but either way, any of these units are going looking at are better than piggy backs.
Andrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 03:31 PM   #12
RallyNavvie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7113
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Minnesotan in Texas
Vehicle:
2008 Spec B
DGM

Default

Haltech software is real-time as well. A small arrow indicates current conditions the engine is undergoing. Hitting the "Home" key will bring you to that specific value to tune it. You tune a bar graph basically, so it's easy to read.

As for the crank trigger it may be as simple as replacing yours with a 6-tooth Subaru trigger. Otherwise buy a Motec trigger and sensor. The Haltech with work with lots of those universal crank triggers. It may be possible to use the fine-tooth Subaru trigger, but I sure didn't see a way to use it.

~Garrett
RallyNavvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 06:28 PM   #13
KillerTHC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4942
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Palo Alto, CA USA
Vehicle:
01 SRP 2.5 RS-T
Ludespeed Stage 3 Link'd

Default

i too have to give my nod and hard earned ( ) money to the Link II. i was very impressed with the way the WRX unit worked and the RS unit seems just as capable.
KillerTHC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2002, 07:41 PM   #14
Indiglo167
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13224
Join Date: Dec 2001
Vehicle:
02 impreza
blue

Default

guys !! where can I get some info for the link system ???
so far no body like the wolf 3D right ???
Indiglo167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 03:06 AM   #15
Radar_Lover
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11748
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lexington, KY
Vehicle:
2001 GC6
Silverthorn

Default

I've seen the locals using Autronics. Said it's not expensive and easy Auto-tune feature. http://www.turbofast.com.au/autronic/autronic.html
Radar_Lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 03:12 AM   #16
ac_gohan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1903
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bay Area, I-Speed Tech
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 RS-T coupe
T3/04 Link'd 2 10 PSI

Default

PM skywalker about it. Where do you live? If you live in CA he can tune it for you.
ac_gohan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 10:26 AM   #17
Jay_UK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 296
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Derby, Derbyshire, England
Default

Pectel baby

Forget Motec, Autronics, Haltec, Link, Wolf, Tec, GEMS...go Pectel!!

J.
Jay_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 12:23 PM   #18
Z1 Performance
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 9327
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Z1Auto.com
Default

Look at what others use...ever see anyone here using a Wolf? Not many that I know, except B-Spec.

Are you planning on tuning yourself and installing yourself, or paying a shop to do it? if so, see what people local to you are using..that will yield the best results overall.

From a hardware standpoint, they are all farily similar...the make or break point is in who is programming the software.

One thing of note to point out is that they all use real time software (not sure of the Wolf, but TECII, LINK2, Pectel, Motec). The Haltech however, can only run 80% injector duty cycle...not good for a Subaru....

What is your budget? how adept ar you at programming?

The LINK2 is a nice unit..comparable to the TECII, though the software is not as easy to master IMHO. However, its a fasir bit cheaper. If you are interested in a TECII (our personal recommendation) or LINK2, just drop us a line

adam
Z-1 Performance
Z1 Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 03:56 PM   #19
RallyNavvie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7113
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Minnesotan in Texas
Vehicle:
2008 Spec B
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
The Haltech however, can only run 80% injector duty cycle...not good for a Subaru....
I don't remember seeing in there that it peaks at 80%, but even if it does that's a good thing. You can always run richer or get bigger injectors to keep the duty cycle down. You shouldn't be going past 80% duty cycle on any injectors though otherwise you may run into lean-out conditions. I don't see why this is an issue

~Garrett
RallyNavvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2002, 11:00 PM   #20
Indiglo167
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13224
Join Date: Dec 2001
Vehicle:
02 impreza
blue

Default

guys does the haltech have some thing like the "auto tune " like the autronic ?? and what's the price for it ??
Indiglo167 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2002, 09:35 AM   #21
Z1 Performance
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 9327
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Z1Auto.com
Default

100% duty cycle is not a good thing....does not allow for peak injector efficiency, and makes tuning harder (sure, you can drop in bigger injectors, and now your idle suffers).

Again, the hardware is far less important than the programmers mastery of the software. LOADS of rotary guys use the Haltech...why? Becuase loads of guys use it..get it? There is a huge knowledge base among rotaries about using, isntalling, mastering that ecu for that application, so there i no need to use anything else.

Loads of Porsche guys run the TECII....again, same reason as above.

Loads of Subaru guys run the LINK....start to get it.....

And forget the auto-tune...waste of time

Last edited by Z1 Performance; 04-23-2002 at 12:43 PM.
Z1 Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2002, 09:53 AM   #22
Really_Soaked
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 4992
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Revelstoke BC, CANADA
Vehicle:
2000 Impreza 2.5 RS
Blue Ridge Pearl

Default

Where the hardware becomes important is for being flexible. More memory and faster processors allow for higher RPM, better tuning "resolution" and potentially increased functionality. Some systems allow you to run stages of injectors so your idle doesn't suffer but can bring on banks of injectors as required for WOT.

Some systems are far superior to others for their precision in tuning. For all you nerds out there you understand the amount of memory required to store timing points and qty of fuel for every RPM X Air Volume X Temperature etc. and the processing power that must be present to compute the real-time outputs from the generated maps. More robust systems allow for more precise tuning.

There are also some really cool (but arguably useless to most people) features that some systems have Traction control, launch control, Anti-lag, auto throttle cut-off etc

But as Z1 eluded to, it really comes down to knowledge and experience - whether it comes from a single expert or a collective group. If you're going to have someone else tune it, go to an expert and have them decide what to use within your price range. This will give you better results than forcing them into a system they're not familiar with. If you're going to do it yourself, look for how much knowledge is available to you through this forum and other resources. Base your decision on budget, bredth of knowledge but make sure that the system is technically going to meet your needs.


My $0.0126906 (Two canadian cents)

-sw
Really_Soaked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2002, 01:33 AM   #23
racerwad
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2564
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: utah
Default Link Plus?

does anyone have any experience with the Link Plus for a turbocharged GC8 RS? unfortunately they don't have a drop in replacement ECU ala Link2 for our cars. nevertheless this system is looking quite appealing and i was wondering if anyone had any experience with it. thanks.

andy
racerwad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2002, 10:35 AM   #24
Impreza Rider
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 756
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Ashburn, Va
Vehicle:
2003 Legacy L wagon
2009 Kawasaki C14

Default

The Link2 is a wire in system that will work on just about any car made. If you look around you will find a number of us running the Link2 on our RS-T's...not me though...it's sitting at my house waiting for summer
Impreza Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2002, 10:50 AM   #25
skywalker
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1990
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

I am currently running a Link II in my GC8 with a LudeSpeed Stage II kit and 5 PSI. As with any kit you have to get it tuned to your car which takes a little time to get use to the system and then tune it. So far I have had it my car for about 1 week and within one week the car has been pretty well tuned.

With a ton of help from AMR I have gotten my GC8 running strong throughout the powerband, a steady idle, and it's way better then any piggy backs.

Just make sure to get a harness made so that you can plug it in. Makes life a little easier.

Anymore questions ask AMR Mods or I. If I can't answer it I am sure AMR can.

As Z1 said loads of Subaru's use the Link II and just to prove that point I know of 3 other Subaru's getting them in the next month. Everything from stock 280cc injectors all the way up to 550cc injectors.

Forgot to mention all without the use of a O2 sensor because mine are both shot from piggy backs. Of course I will be putting one in soon.

Cheers,
Bill

Last edited by skywalker; 04-18-2002 at 10:55 AM.
skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's the best way to clean the engine compartment under the hood? rabbit92x Car Care & Detailing 4 11-27-2008 09:06 PM
Best engine management/ecu tune for the N/A?!?!?! shanemono4 Normally Aspirated Powertrain 28 05-03-2008 06:26 PM
What is the best Engine management??? happy69 Other Engine Management 16 03-20-2007 03:26 PM
best engine management for the buck afro Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 39 10-03-2004 09:45 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.