what's the best engine management ?

[Indiglo167]

TechII $2000
wolf 3D :$1250
Heltech:$1200
I''ve a 98 Impreza L with a EJ20 turbo motor installed and only missing some spark plugs wire and need a engine management for it.
1.Tech II seems like a pretty good choice(except the price and need a laptop) as far as I know it comes with ALL the sensor I'll need right ??? if I'm wrong what else do I need to buy and how much are they ??
2.wolf 3D looks good also specially it comes with the hand programmer and have every thing except the spark plugs wire and the map sensor right? Please correct me if I'm wrong also.
3. Heltech is about the same price with the wolf but missing the hand programmer and I'll need couple more sensor.
I want to know what system will work the best for my car... I can either use the direct ignitions coil that comes with the turbo motor(just like the new EJ20 off the 02 WRX) or use the stock ignitions system that comes with the car.
Please help !!!
If any vendor read this or any of you guys have any of the above system avilable please let me know . Cash is ready

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[ac_gohan]

another suggestion is the LINK II.

[Indiglo167]

Link II ?? how much is it and where to buy ?? how's it compare to the others three ??

[Andrew]

wolf 3d is a rip for what it does (from what ive seen). go with the link2

[Indiglo167]

wolf is a rip ??? how come ??

[Andrew]

doesnt the wolf 3d only control fuel and stuff. or was that a different wolf. if it cant even control timing than it is a rip. i also dont think its the best piece to use. maybe im wrong. for 1250 i sure i hope i am. i still think the Link2 the most for how much it costs.

[RallyNavvie]

I guess I need to read up on the Link II. I've compared the Haltech to the TEC-II and to the new FJO one but not to the Link.

I have a Haltech installed on my turbo RS. You will need a laptop to tune it, but the one I have was only $150. All the laptop needs is a 9-pin serial port and runs DOS. It helps if it has at least a few colors and has Home, End, Page Up, Page Down, etc. keys on it somewhere.

If you buy the Haltech kit for ~$1300 it comes with all the sensors required, except for the MAP. The only sensors you'll use from that kit are the coolant temp sensor and the air temp sensor. You can use the stock cam angle sensor, crank trigger, and TPS. You will need to purchase a GM MAP sensor. You will also need to either tap a new hole for the CTS or make a thread adapter to fit it in the stock location. I welded a bung onto the intercooler for my air temp sensor.

Tuning the Haltech is pretty easy to learn. I have a base map to start you off if you need it. It helps a lot to have a 4WD dyno to tune on, otherwise you can road tune it. I'm not sure if your crank trigger will work though. You'd need to find out if it's the 6-tooth trigger or the finer tooth one on CA-spec models.

~Garrett

[Indiglo167]

I think the wolf 3D will do every thing the others will do also .... may be I'm wrong.
and www.bspecusa.com is selling them for $1250 but I've try e-mail them many times and no respond.

[Indiglo167]

Garrett : I think my car use the CA spec crank trigger..... is this means I'll need another sensor to get it work ??

[Really_Soaked]

Also DTA Fast.

http://www.dtafast.co.uk - edit (real url)

It offers some killer features for a good price point.

[Andrew]

i was with some locla buddies when they tuned a WRX and I was impressed by the Link's software. everything is real time, even the tuning is in realtime. ti will display where you are at on MAP and Ignition tables so you can tune it exactly at that point that you are having problems with instead of guessing.

but either way, any of these units are going looking at are better than piggy backs.

[RallyNavvie]

Haltech software is real-time as well. A small arrow indicates current conditions the engine is undergoing. Hitting the "Home" key will bring you to that specific value to tune it. You tune a bar graph basically, so it's easy to read.

As for the crank trigger it may be as simple as replacing yours with a 6-tooth Subaru trigger. Otherwise buy a Motec trigger and sensor. The Haltech with work with lots of those universal crank triggers. It may be possible to use the fine-tooth Subaru trigger, but I sure didn't see a way to use it.

~Garrett

[KillerTHC]

i too have to give my nod and hard earned ( ) money to the Link II. i was very impressed with the way the WRX unit worked and the RS unit seems just as capable.

[Indiglo167]

guys !! where can I get some info for the link system ???
so far no body like the wolf 3D right ???

[Radar_Lover]

I've seen the locals using Autronics. Said it's not expensive and easy Auto-tune feature. http://www.turbofast.com.au/autronic/autronic.html

[ac_gohan]

PM skywalker about it. Where do you live? If you live in CA he can tune it for you.

[Jay_UK]

Pectel baby

Forget Motec, Autronics, Haltec, Link, Wolf, Tec, GEMS...go Pectel!!

J.

[Z1 Performance]

Look at what others use...ever see anyone here using a Wolf? Not many that I know, except B-Spec.

Are you planning on tuning yourself and installing yourself, or paying a shop to do it? if so, see what people local to you are using..that will yield the best results overall.

From a hardware standpoint, they are all farily similar...the make or break point is in who is programming the software.

One thing of note to point out is that they all use real time software (not sure of the Wolf, but TECII, LINK2, Pectel, Motec). The Haltech however, can only run 80% injector duty cycle...not good for a Subaru....

What is your budget? how adept ar you at programming?

The LINK2 is a nice unit..comparable to the TECII, though the software is not as easy to master IMHO. However, its a fasir bit cheaper. If you are interested in a TECII (our personal recommendation) or LINK2, just drop us a line

adam
Z-1 Performance

[RallyNavvie]

Originally posted by Z1 Performance
The Haltech however, can only run 80% injector duty cycle...not good for a Subaru....

I don't remember seeing in there that it peaks at 80%, but even if it does that's a good thing. You can always run richer or get bigger injectors to keep the duty cycle down. You shouldn't be going past 80% duty cycle on any injectors though otherwise you may run into lean-out conditions. I don't see why this is an issue

~Garrett

[Indiglo167]

guys does the haltech have some thing like the "auto tune " like the autronic ?? and what's the price for it ??

[Z1 Performance]

100% duty cycle is not a good thing....does not allow for peak injector efficiency, and makes tuning harder (sure, you can drop in bigger injectors, and now your idle suffers).

Again, the hardware is far less important than the programmers mastery of the software. LOADS of rotary guys use the Haltech...why? Becuase loads of guys use it..get it? There is a huge knowledge base among rotaries about using, isntalling, mastering that ecu for that application, so there i no need to use anything else.

Loads of Porsche guys run the TECII....again, same reason as above.

Loads of Subaru guys run the LINK....start to get it.....

And forget the auto-tune...waste of time

[Really_Soaked]

Where the hardware becomes important is for being flexible. More memory and faster processors allow for higher RPM, better tuning "resolution" and potentially increased functionality. Some systems allow you to run stages of injectors so your idle doesn't suffer but can bring on banks of injectors as required for WOT.

Some systems are far superior to others for their precision in tuning. For all you nerds out there you understand the amount of memory required to store timing points and qty of fuel for every RPM X Air Volume X Temperature etc. and the processing power that must be present to compute the real-time outputs from the generated maps. More robust systems allow for more precise tuning.

There are also some really cool (but arguably useless to most people) features that some systems have Traction control, launch control, Anti-lag, auto throttle cut-off etc

But as Z1 eluded to, it really comes down to knowledge and experience - whether it comes from a single expert or a collective group. If you're going to have someone else tune it, go to an expert and have them decide what to use within your price range. This will give you better results than forcing them into a system they're not familiar with. If you're going to do it yourself, look for how much knowledge is available to you through this forum and other resources. Base your decision on budget, bredth of knowledge but make sure that the system is technically going to meet your needs.


My $0.0126906 (Two canadian cents)

-sw

[racerwad]

does anyone have any experience with the Link Plus for a turbocharged GC8 RS? unfortunately they don't have a drop in replacement ECU ala Link2 for our cars. nevertheless this system is looking quite appealing and i was wondering if anyone had any experience with it. thanks.

andy

[Impreza Rider]

The Link2 is a wire in system that will work on just about any car made. If you look around you will find a number of us running the Link2 on our RS-T's...not me though...it's sitting at my house waiting for summer

[skywalker]

I am currently running a Link II in my GC8 with a LudeSpeed Stage II kit and 5 PSI. As with any kit you have to get it tuned to your car which takes a little time to get use to the system and then tune it. So far I have had it my car for about 1 week and within one week the car has been pretty well tuned.

With a ton of help from AMR I have gotten my GC8 running strong throughout the powerband, a steady idle, and it's way better then any piggy backs.

Just make sure to get a harness made so that you can plug it in. Makes life a little easier.

Anymore questions ask AMR Mods or I. If I can't answer it I am sure AMR can.

As Z1 said loads of Subaru's use the Link II and just to prove that point I know of 3 other Subaru's getting them in the next month. Everything from stock 280cc injectors all the way up to 550cc injectors.

Forgot to mention all without the use of a O2 sensor because mine are both shot from piggy backs. Of course I will be putting one in soon.

Cheers,
Bill