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Old 04-01-2009, 11:45 PM   #1
MattDell
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Default Autocross Number height? - 8", 10", or 12"

Hey guys, I'm trying to order some Auto-X magnets so

a) I look like less of a newb on Sundays and
b) so I never again have to attempt taping my car with painters tape in the rain:



Anyway, I was hoping I could maybe visualize what the different letter sizes looked like. Could you guys post up what size numbers you run and maybe a pic?

It seems like standard is 8", but that sounds small (twss). I don't want to order some numbers and end up with little sissy numbers.

-Matt
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Last edited by MattDell; 04-02-2009 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:14 AM   #2
misterwaterfallin
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why dont you go try them out with your painters tape and measure the height of what you think looks right?
that seems like the simplest way, or borrow someone's numbers at the next event
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:38 AM   #3
austinpike
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^ winnar.

but fwiw, these are 9" numbers.

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Old 04-02-2009, 01:08 AM   #4
racerjon1
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SCCA rules say #s shoudl be at least 8" tall, 1.5 inch stroke. Class letters should be 1/3rd to 3/4th the size of numbers, matching font, adjacent to, and at least 4" tall with 1/2 inch stroke.

Also, contrasting colors. Grey/Silver, Red/Black, Silver/white, etc = no-no.


Jon K
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:21 AM   #5
racerjon1
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and, what the heck.. this is a write-up I did for my local SCCA region last year...



What defines a racecar?

Is it a roll bar? No, Police cars have those.

Stickers showing off the parts you have on the car? Nah, show cars have those in spades.

Want to know?

Drive a car by a school bus full of elementary school kids and they will let you know when.

So when is it?

It’s when the number dominates the car.

There is a reason why the #3 is synonymous with Dale Earnhardt Sr. Why when I say “the #43” and you think of Richard Petty. It’s why the #14 has been reserved for the use of AJ Foyt in IndyCar racing.

So it stands to reason that if you want your car to work as a competition vehicle when autocrossing you should have very visible numbers on the side of it. (Oh.. and it’s in the rules as well.)

The SCCA Solo Events rule book has an entire section on numbers, and even a clarification in the appendix.



So let’s break down Section 3.7 – VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION:


Quote:
SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
3.7.A: All vehicles must display numbers and class letters on both sides, which must be readable by Timing & Scoring, Course, and Grid workers at all times.
What this means is what it says - All cars must have numbers and class letters on both sides, and they must be able to be read by timing and scoring along with course workers. “Able to be read” is defined more in depth later.


Quote:
SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
3.7.B: Only one set of numbers and class letters may be visible while the vehicle is running.
This means that you can’t have another set of numbers on the car.. like “14ES” if you are registered as “14ASP”


Quote:
SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
C. Class shall be represented by the upper-case abbreviated form rather than be spelled out. Ladies’ classes shall be indicated by the letter “L” following the class letters. (Example: “BSPL” instead of “B Street Prepared Ladies”).
Hey.. that one is even spelled out for you. I am not going to bother explaining. (I will mention that I have seen something like, “45 TIR” for street-tire classes. Which, by the rules doesn’t work. (sorry no picture of that)


Quote:
SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
D. Numbers and class letters should be positioned next to each other. All letters and numbers must be on body panels, not on windows. All numbers and class letters must use the same typeface and the same color, and this color must provide adequate contrast to the background color (see Appendix F for examples).
Let’s break this one down, because it seems to be one of the more misunderstood…

Numbers and class letters should be next to each other. Adjacent to. Not numbers on the door and letters on the window, or fenders, or, well.. anywhere else.


Where are the class letters? Is XP the sponsor or the class? See the problem?


All letters and numbers must be on body panels, not on windows.


This doesn’t work.


All letters must have matching typeface (font) and color: See the example above with the “XP” not having a matching typeface just adds to the confusion.


Colors must provide contrast to the background color. Dark colors on a dark color doesn’t work, light colors on a light car doesn’t work… (As I have heard said, red is dark, black is dark.. so red and black doesn’t work)


I hope I don’t have to explain this example, and even though it was probably put on by tech, it still doesn’t work – this is why tech should have some purple masking tape.



At least the class letters are ok.. but white on silver.. yea.. that’s just not working.



This one didn’t pass tech at the 2008 SCCA Solo National Championships – so if you THINK it might work, you might want to go one extra step to be sure.


A really bad example...


Quote:
SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
E. Numbers must be a minimum of 8" high with a 1.25" stroke. Class letters must be a minimum of 4" high with a 0.75" stroke. In all cases, the height of the class letters must be between 25% and 75% of the height of the numbers. Stroke width must be at least 10% of the height. (See Appendix F.)
This one is the one you get to do math with. When we work tech at national events, this is where we come out with little rulers and such.

Don’t let anyone ever tell you size doesn’t matter. (At least in the case of numbers on racecars) The bigger it is, the easier it is to read. Notice these example pictures are kind of small – I did that on purpose. If you want a good test, take a picture of your car, resize it to thumbnail size. Show it to someone who has never seen it before for less than one second. If they can’t tell you what number it is, go back and order new numbers. (If you haven’t ordered numbers yet.. well.. make sure you wont have to order new ones, they can be expensive)


Example one.. class letters too large. It is readable, but it isn’t right, and at a glance it is good to have the different sizes.


Think this one will pass my thumbnail test?



For reference, here is the image used in the SCCA Appendix:




Quote:
SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
F. The “1” on two-driver cars and the “L” on Ladies class cars are subject to all of the above requirements with regard to placement, color, size, and stroke.
We also see this one violated at local events. I will dig up some pictures and update the thread.. Essentially though, putting the “L” or “P” or “T” somewhere far away from the number and class letters doesn’t help anything..


Quote:
SCCA National Solo Rules wrote:
G. Karts may use numbers and class letters of reduced size provided that the following conditions are met: 1) Numbers must be displayed on the front and rear in addition to both sides; 2) Class letters must be on both sides; 3) In no case may the numbers be smaller than 6" in height with ¾” stroke, using a high-contrast color and background.
This one explains the rule for karts.. so it won’t apply to most of us. But you see there is still a lot of attention paid to being able to see the number.



more to come...
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:22 AM   #6
racerjon1
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Finally, some good examples:

To prove that it can be done in tape – good size, correct ratio for numbers:letters.. the stroke isn’t really enough, but for a local event, it isn’t horrible:


Dark numbers on a light background:


Light numbers on a dark background:


More light numbers on a dark background:




Of course, sometimes you don’t want to have a lot of different numbers and letters to keep track of, so you want a single-piece number plate – here are a couple that work:







So hopefully that helps…

Take this time to make sure your numbers are ok. Remember, you can’t have an SCR-SCCA annual tech without SCCA Nationals-spec numbers. Make sure that you are not the cause of a numbers-related delay or scoring problem.

Then, once you get them right, drive by an elementary school and watch the kids pointing and cheering.



Jon K
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Old 04-02-2009, 02:51 AM   #7
Butt Dyno
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9", I think...
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:09 AM   #8
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Jon,

Can you send me the file, or can I cut and paste to my forum (with your full credit of course, and region)? I'd like to put that on our forum. That is an excellent writeup!

--kC
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:02 AM   #9
racerjon1
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KC,

That would be cool.. that's a BB-code write-up, so the file is just that, but I can send you the code version if you want.


Jon
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:07 AM   #10
KC
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Do you want me to re-host the images?

--kC
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:15 AM   #11
racerjon1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Do you want me to re-host the images?

--kC

Eh.. up to you, I am not getting such a massive amount of traffic is matters, so you can boost my hits :-) If it becomes a problem, I will say something. (but I dont anticipate it becoming an issue)


Jon
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:18 AM   #12
racerjon1
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Also.. there is a line in there about not getting the SCR annual tech without rulebook-legal numbers.. you can edit that if you want/need as well.


Jon
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:30 AM   #13
mla163
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I just picked up some nice meatballs from here

http://www.izoomgraphics.com/index.p...page_autocross

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Old 04-02-2009, 10:51 AM   #14
boyracer_05
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10' I think I am going to play around with placement a little.

Last edited by boyracer_05; 04-02-2009 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 10:56 AM   #15
boyracer_05
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damn doulble post
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:11 AM   #16
MattDell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mla163 View Post
I just picked up some nice meatballs from here

http://www.izoomgraphics.com/index.p...page_autocross

Yep, those look great on the STi...

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Old 04-02-2009, 02:16 PM   #17
kts262
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Curse you for posting that and reminding me how good those meatball numbers look on the STi. Makes me want to get a set to replace my current ones.



^^ got those from RallyDecals.com years ago.
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:17 PM   #18
delongedoug
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RallyDecals.com is the finest online establishment established online!

Last edited by delongedoug; 04-03-2009 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 11:13 PM   #19
Scooby South
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Heres mine..

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Old 04-02-2009, 11:19 PM   #20
Butt Dyno
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blah5

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Old 04-03-2009, 12:08 PM   #21
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8"






Last edited by TubeDriver; 04-03-2009 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 04-03-2009, 04:16 PM   #22
generalee69
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Mine are bigger than yours (in my best whiny voice)

16" numbers, 4 or 5" letters from iZoom.

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Old 04-06-2009, 07:18 PM   #23
MattDell
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Ooooh... those 16" numbers look nice!
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjon1 View Post
What defines a racecar?

Is it a roll bar? No, Police cars have those.

Police cars have a cage that is a divider and not a roll bar. They are not designed to offer roll over protection.
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:43 PM   #25
mla163
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8" numbers on meatballs from the link I posted above



ok, I just wanted to show off my new magnets
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