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View Poll Results: miles on built motor?
5,000-10,000 49 33.56%
10,000-20,000 35 23.97%
20,000-30,000 11 7.53%
30,000+ 51 34.93%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-06-2009, 11:54 PM   #26
TopEndPull
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5k miles
darton sleeved, cp pistons stock bore, pauter rods.
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Old 04-07-2009, 01:04 AM   #27
flycaster
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Adding a qt. of oil every now and then hasn't detracted from my enjoyment of the car one bit. Oil is cheap.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:09 AM   #28
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well it sounds like their is no such thing as a 400whp(built block) daily driver lasting up to 100,000plus miles then huh? How do the Evo's do it? Is it because its a stock fully forged inernal motor?
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:49 AM   #29
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I'm @ 10K now - pushing for 100K+
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drkwrx View Post
well it sounds like their is no such thing as a 400whp(built block) daily driver lasting up to 100,000plus miles then huh? How do the Evo's do it? Is it because its a stock fully forged inernal motor?
I'm sure there are a few around. OTOH, the couple of EVO's that I know over in Portland area have pretty much the same issues. Moreover, I don't think Evo's come out of the factory with forged pistons either, but I'm not 100% positive about that; however, that in-line iron block is a stout platform to be sure.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:40 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustleshark206 View Post
I was gonna participate but there is no option for 0 miles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by godforbid67 View Post
haha me 2

LOL, there's no option for "it broke before i got it broken in either" haha

oh wait,
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Old 04-07-2009, 04:42 PM   #32
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well i just havent put mine in my car yet i would really hope for at least 60-80 thousand miles but w/e ill just have to buy a beater.
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
no way. beaten like they should be, i would guess 50,000 tops before the rings start to wear hard.
We've performed durability tests on our built engines and this is exactly correct. The part that takes the hardest beating is the top ring on a high HP Subaru. After tearing down our race engine after a season of racing and some street use (12k miles) pushing 500+ whp our top ring opened up about 2k. With 50k miles I would suspect a top ring end gap at least +8k. High rpm and high HP does not equal an engine that will remain fresh for a lifetime. Sure it will still be in one piece but it will not be making the power it once did. Luckily from what we've seen on our engines at least the rest of the motor stays really fresh (quality oil, frequent changes, proper crankcase pressure management, and great tuning).

Typically on our race car we do a complete disassembly at the end of the season to measure and inspect everything but we don't change anything but the rings (hone) and gaskets (skim the head) (unless something broke of course). We do this so we can actually get long term data from our engine program. If you replace everything with new parts you'll never learn anything about the parts life cycle under extreme circumstances.

If the car doesn't see a lot of redline use or as much heat and HP it will last longer. Frankly some of the newly builder X motors we've torn down have such loose ring end gaps they would be like stock motors with +100k miles. It's no wonder people complain about their built engines burning oil
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:07 AM   #34
ERICS02WRX
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what about the HP levels of the cars along with the miles put on the built motor. HP and boost level, assuming good tune, would have a direct correlation to the longevity of the engine. Just curious.
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:11 AM   #35
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I have around 4k miles on my rebuilt rebuilt rebuilt 2.5L... more than half of those miles with 500whp+ on tap. [email protected] on 93, [email protected] on c16.

cp 100mm pistons + swaintech skirts
pauter rods
stock crank
stock sleeves
headwork+cams/valvetrain
35r+huge fmic

It's the same motor I had that broke a camshaft in half @ 6k miles and a blown hg 2k miles later. The block was rehoned, heads resurfaced, one piston was replaced, all four pistons had the skirts coated, new rings, one rod had the small end bushing "fixed", the crank was machined for undersize main bearings, and that's about it besides new headstuds, gaskets, bearings, t-belt/tensioner, and little things. The heads were in great shape after all the problems and I was very happy about that.
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:32 AM   #36
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I have 12,500 on the Cosworth longblock. Still running strong. Saving up for a 40r.
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:53 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
We've performed durability tests on our built engines and this is exactly correct. The part that takes the hardest beating is the top ring on a high HP Subaru. After tearing down our race engine after a season of racing and some street use (12k miles) pushing 500+ whp our top ring opened up about 2k. With 50k miles I would suspect a top ring end gap at least +8k. High rpm and high HP does not equal an engine that will remain fresh for a lifetime. Sure it will still be in one piece but it will not be making the power it once did. Luckily from what we've seen on our engines at least the rest of the motor stays really fresh (quality oil, frequent changes, proper crankcase pressure management, and great tuning).

Typically on our race car we do a complete disassembly at the end of the season to measure and inspect everything but we don't change anything but the rings (hone) and gaskets (skim the head) (unless something broke of course). We do this so we can actually get long term data from our engine program. If you replace everything with new parts you'll never learn anything about the parts life cycle under extreme circumstances.

If the car doesn't see a lot of redline use or as much heat and HP it will last longer. Frankly some of the newly builder X motors we've torn down have such loose ring end gaps they would be like stock motors with +100k miles. It's no wonder people complain about their built engines burning oil

Spot on. I tore down my 08 STI CP Piston block, and the end gaps were just a bit under 2 thous more open then when I put the pistons in 12k miles before. This was a hard 12k miles mind you, and an eventual overboost to 28psi cracked a cylinder liner, but the pistons looked perfect.

Jeff
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godforbid67 View Post
god damn, i did not know that. that sucks, i would probably have not spent all this money if i knew that was the case.

If the concept of a built motor not having a 100,000 mile life span is a surprise to you, indeed you should not have modified your car at all. The idea that this is a surprise is a surprise itself. It is unfortunate that so many places do such a poor job of educating customers. I always start out my ‘so you want a 400whp car’ with the required ‘do you have your funds set aside for the engine rebuild next year?’.

Jeff
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:09 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
Spot on. I tore down my 08 STI CP Piston block, and the end gaps were just a bit under 2 thous more open then when I put the pistons in 12k miles before. This was a hard 12k miles mind you, and an eventual overboost to 28psi cracked a cylinder liner, but the pistons looked perfect.

Jeff
What were you using to tune the 08? I've overboosted quite a few times, 28-31psi, on 93 octane with no repercussions. (Hydra pulled all timing and dumped fuel)
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:15 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
...I always start out my ‘so you want a 400whp car’ with the required ‘do you have your funds set aside for the engine rebuild next year?’.
Gee, Jeff, talk about a face full of cold water! So you think 50K miles is an unreasonable ballpark number for a built, 400whp street motor, or is this just a small dose of hyperbole?
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:24 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxwhat View Post
What were you using to tune the 08? I've overboosted quite a few times, 28-31psi, on 93 octane with no repercussions. (Hydra pulled all timing and dumped fuel)
I was on the AP, but of course disabled the boost cut as I was messing around with things a bit. It was not a surprise that I broke it given the cylinder pressures with knock at that boost level on pump fuel. It did make good power before going I must say. All in good fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
Gee, Jeff, talk about a face full of cold water! So you think 50K miles is an unreasonable ballpark number for a built, 400whp street motor, or is this just a small dose of hyperbole?
No no.. for a built motor that sounds good, but I was refering to the notion of 'the new modder conversation'. Someone comes in and says they 'read on the internet' that the stock motor can take 500hp all day. I then have to explain that all day is perhaps more of a generalized reference... They might mean all day, or just one day.

My point is really to make sure the customer understands what he is doing. He is increasing the HP of a factory built and engineered motor by more then 50%. There are thousands of engineering hours that have gone into the original design and it's limits. A speed shop build up does not generally have that kind of research and development behind it.

The real cold water is when the engine breaks and they have to sell the car at a loss because they can't afford to fix it.

Jeff

Last edited by sponaugle; 04-09-2009 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:58 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
...The real cold water is when the engine breaks and they have to sell the car at a loss because they can't afford to fix it.
Gotcha. There have been a few of those on both boards, and it makes for depressing reading especially when the car is heavily leveraged. Thin wallets should avoid this game altogether...it's not a matter of if, but when.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:17 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
Thin wallets should avoid this game altogether...it's not a matter of if, but when.
^^^^^
This is why I am already planning and purchasing parts for my next block, even though I only have a little over 8k on my current one.
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:22 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
If the concept of a built motor not having a 100,000 mile life span is a surprise to you, indeed you should not have modified your car at all. The idea that this is a surprise is a surprise itself. It is unfortunate that so many places do such a poor job of educating customers. I always start out my ‘so you want a 400whp car’ with the required ‘do you have your funds set aside for the engine rebuild next year?’.
People might mean different things when they say "built"... I need a rebuild anyway, so I'm contemplating putting in some modestly beefed-up internals so I can get a reliable 250awhp out of it. And, yeah, I would hope to get closer to 100k than 50k out of it, but then what I'm talking about isn't even on the same planet as the 500awhp monsters you guys build.

Or is it unrealistic to expect any non-OEM engine to survive to a ripe old age?
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:28 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
The real cold water is when the engine breaks and they have to sell the car at a loss because they can't afford to fix it.
I've been there and almost did that. Ended up buying a POS beater car and my STI was down for almost a year. Now that my car runs I hardly drive it and am already thinking about how I will handle the next rebuild.

The problem is when people think built = bulletproof.
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:59 PM   #46
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Bingo. As we all know it certainly will be stronger and able to withstand more punishment, but the concept that it will also have less longevity than the OEM block is a little tougher for a non-mechanically inclined guy to wrap his head around. In a race car, where the time between refresh/overhaul is measured in hours, this is just reality. Even 50K miles is a LOT of time for an engine that is putting out 3-4bhp/cu. in.

Heh, mention that kind of time to race team mechanic and he'd look at you like you have rocks in your head.
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:14 PM   #47
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Anything 50% over stock will not be manufacturer's longevity no matter what...
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:59 PM   #48
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hey so, on a ej25, what are you guys running your gaps at? what rings do you go with? and what kind of piston? can someone throw me a link to any good thread on gaps?
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Old 10-10-2009, 02:53 AM   #49
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im gonna bump this thread. all that posted give an update in how your motors are holding up and current miles. anyone else with built motors post up. include what your setup is please
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Old 10-10-2009, 03:53 AM   #50
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Just passed 14000. Still not burning oil or smoking. Compression is still even on all 4.

ej205 with wiseco pistons/manley rods/acl bearings.
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