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Old 02-24-2009, 12:19 AM   #1
dlo914
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Default Need some info on EJ22.

So my buddy and i are doing a Porsche 914 project. We already picked up a roller just this past weekend and have gone into clean up the minimal rust areas and Por-15 the bare metal areas.

But as far as powerplant goes it's up in the air, till today. I just came up on a JDM EJ22 motor with low miles. Also there's an NA EJ20 that i can also pick up. What is there to look for on these as far as identifying which year car they came out of. And what are possible NA mods that can squeeze some more power out of the EJ22 or EJ20.

Here's our progress thread on www.914world.com for those that wanna keep updated on our project: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.p...pic=92942&st=0
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:40 AM   #2
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I don't think you can do much to the non turbo engines to get much more power out of them, but the EJ22 is known as being very reliable. Stay away from the phase I EJ25 due to head gasket issues. If you do decide to go with a turbo motor you can get pretty much as much power as you are willing to pay for. Although stock power from a 2.0 liter WRX engine should be plenty for the little 914. I am sure someone with more knowledge in engines will give you some useful advice.

Mounting the intercooler in a way that it gets proper airflow would be tough. I envision a setup like the Exige has with a hood scoop on the roof for sucking in air.

Whatever you do it sounds like a great project.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:27 AM   #3
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Where on the engines do i get the engine code? And from there how do i find out what year cars they came outta? If we were to do some head work to either the EJ22 or EJ20 would that help or should we just get the project running first and then if we want more power to upgrade to turbo'd motor?

Thanks for the fast reply AFViper!
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Old 02-24-2009, 02:04 AM   #4
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Our N/A engines just have a hard time getting air period.

We can do headwork and cam as hard as we can, but in the end we all have a hard time trying to pass 200awhp.

Of course, you can combine ej22 heads with ej25 block and make a high compression motor. Which would get you close enough to 200awhp.

With a standalone ecu and whatever else you need, you'd make a neat and super unique car. It'd be NUTS for autox if you're ever considering it.
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Old 02-24-2009, 02:14 AM   #5
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we're thinking about going with a stock EJ22 wiring harness and having www.enginewiring.com splice and combine that with the stock 914 wiring harness. A standalone ecu at the moment is out of our budget. Plan is to keep it all under 3k. And So far we've spent $300 for rolling chassis, and will be $250 for EJ22 (have yet to pick up).

Also which would you guys prefer for this specific car swap? EJ22 or EJ20?
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:36 AM   #6
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afviper:Stay away from the phase I EJ25 due to head gasket issues.

What year cars came with the phase 1 EJ25? 96-99 Legacys?
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:53 PM   #7
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First, there are a few things you can do to squeeze more power out of both engines. Adding cams, bigger valves, P&P, intake, a good header and engine management will add power. You need to decide how much you want to spend.

afviper, intercooler and turbo on a NA EJ20? Much experience with phase1 EJ25's? They are fine motors that can be had cheap because of people like you. Replace the head gasket with the new revised ones and your golden.

There are limitations to using either motor. PM sent.
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Old 02-24-2009, 02:50 PM   #8
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I was thinking of the turbo EJ20 in 2 liter WRXs. As for head gasket issues in the earlier 2.5 liter engines, I have just read of a lot of people that have had head gaskets go. I am assuming that the OP wouldn't want to build up the engine, but if he doesn't mind taking it apart then yes, replacing the head gasket at that time would give the option of using the early EJ25s.
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:24 PM   #9
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Also how do you distinguish whether i have a closed or open deck EJ22? I was told to look up the engine code, but wasn't given specific numbers to see which is which.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:05 AM   #10
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what kind of wiring harness would the jdm ej22 NA need? can it be from any ej22? or is it specific to a phase 1 or phase 2 harness? im the one with 914.
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:28 AM   #11
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these cars need little to no power to be amazingly entertaining - I used to know a guy who had one and would let me drive it - even with the stock 4 cylinder motor it was a true joy.

Whatever you get, I would focus on something reliable, since, like I said, you don't really need a lot of power to get these guys going. I don't have experience with "JDM" Subaru motors, but from dealing with Hondas I can tell you that often you get a ragged out piece of crap, and there's no way to verify the mileage.

I would search local junkyards for any Porsche or Subaru flat 4 or flat 6. A flat 6 would actually be awesome - very few 914s came with a 6 cylinder motor, so that would at least be a throwback and homage to the rare 914-6, even if its not all "original".

Oh, and just to prepare you - most Porsche purists will be horrified at the thought of a Frankenstein car powered by anything that wasn't built in Stuttgart.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cretinx View Post
these cars need little to no power to be amazingly entertaining - I used to know a guy who had one and would let me drive it - even with the stock 4 cylinder motor it was a true joy.

Whatever you get, I would focus on something reliable, since, like I said, you don't really need a lot of power to get these guys going. I don't have experience with "JDM" Subaru motors, but from dealing with Hondas I can tell you that often you get a ragged out piece of crap, and there's no way to verify the mileage.

I would search local junkyards for any Porsche or Subaru flat 4 or flat 6. A flat 6 would actually be awesome - very few 914s came with a 6 cylinder motor, so that would at least be a throwback and homage to the rare 914-6, even if its not all "original".

Oh, and just to prepare you - most Porsche purists will be horrified at the thought of a Frankenstein car powered by anything that wasn't built in Stuttgart.
Yes i know all this info, i've been in the 914 community for about 7 years now. I myself had two 914's both 74's and i went through two engines on one 914. I went through a 1.7L Djet that threw a valve and a 2.0L Djet that threw a rod. After that i vowed to never use a volkswagen type4 engine ever again in a 914. I wanted the reliability of a japanese motor and since the subaru conversions are quite common now i went with that option.

And yes i know Porsche purist will rag on me, but so what? It's not their car and you can get just as much power from a turbo'd subaru compared to a flat 6. And you would spend probably a third of the cost to achieve that amount of HP/Trq.

So back onto my question how do i ID a closed or opened deck EJ22?
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:15 AM   #13
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To ID the closed deck motors and be sure, you have to pull the heads off. If you are planning on merging a wire harness into your car try to use one from an OBD-II car. It uses 2 o2 sensors but oh well.

My suggestion for you is using any EJ25 block you want with dual exh. port (1990-1994) EJ22 heads. If you use the newer SOHC EJ25 block, you get 11.5:1 comp. ratio. If you use the 96-99 DOHC EJ25 block, you get 10.8:1 comp. ratio. Either one will run on premium gas, and premium gas only. Throw in some Delta spicy cams for the EJ22 heads for better breathing and call it done.

Then after you get bored with that power. Find yourself some WRX heads ( or EJ20H heads) and an EJ22 block. Put those together for a quick spooling turbo motor. You dont need a closed deck block to have a reliable turbo motor.



~Josh~
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballitch View Post
To ID the closed deck motors and be sure, you have to pull the heads off. If you are planning on merging a wire harness into your car try to use one from an OBD-II car. It uses 2 o2 sensors but oh well.

My suggestion for you is using any EJ25 block you want with dual exh. port (1990-1994) EJ22 heads. If you use the newer SOHC EJ25 block, you get 11.5:1 comp. ratio. If you use the 96-99 DOHC EJ25 block, you get 10.8:1 comp. ratio. Either one will run on premium gas, and premium gas only. Throw in some Delta spicy cams for the EJ22 heads for better breathing and call it done.

Then after you get bored with that power. Find yourself some WRX heads ( or EJ20H heads) and an EJ22 block. Put those together for a quick spooling turbo motor. You dont need a closed deck block to have a reliable turbo motor.



~Josh~
Good info, i was afraid that i would have to take the head off to check. I've already googled the two and found how both versions look like. Is it okay to use an OBD1 harness if that's all i can find? What are the benefits of the OBD2 harness?

Thanks for the hybrid motor suggestions, but for now i think we're just gonna refresh the EJ22 by changing out the: timing belt, water pump, tensioner(s), valve cover gasket, and the usual maintenance items before we put it in the car.
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Old 03-13-2009, 03:02 AM   #15
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for now we just want to get it running on the stock ej22, in the future when money isnt such a problem we may swap in a ej20t. for now which harness can be used? we would probably end up stripping the wiring down bare, theres no a/c no radio nothing, just the engine and the road =P theres no cel light either, so would running a obdII hurt? or can a OBDI be used. which would be cheaper?
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:41 PM   #16
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I'm pretty sure that if it is a naturally aspirated EJ22 it is a OPEN deck. Only the EJ22T had the closed deck in the 2.2l family (and the back of the EJ22T passenger side head has oil ports to feed the turbo).

on the wiring harness question: The USDM 90-91 EJ22 had a slightly different harness than the 92-94 (and probably even another variation for the 95+, but that I am not familiar with). They can probably be made to work with eachother but it would require sourcing the "right" connectors - the connections from the main harness to the intake manifold sub-harness is different (3 conectors for the 90-91 and 2 connectors for the 92-94) and I think the ignition circuit is bit different as well (later routes the ignition power through the switch). it's best to have the harness that came with the car - find a donor Legacy and pull it all.

I'm 1/2way through a wiring harness conversion to run a '92 EJ22E in my VW Vanagon - you should do the work yourself guys so you KNOW the harness (will make future changes, and diagnostics much easier, plus it'll save you $$). (I got a steal on my motor - disassembled and hot tanked, with complete wiring harness for $275 - sweet)


For more powa - like stated before, maybe a street cam from Delta and a nice exhaust manifold. The basic I/H/E route will make it more eager to rev. Personally I'd focus on getting the swap in and running then make upgrades.
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:52 PM   #17
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Farfrumwork is correct. All of the NA Ej22's are open deck. He is also wise in suggesting that you merge your own wiring harness. I've got step by step instructions along with pictures on how to do it for the Ej205 harness from when Dana did his. It wouldn't be very difficult to change it over to the Ej22e harness since most of what gets merged into the 914 harness is the power and ground stuff along with certain things for the gauges. Then if there's any troubleshooting you know the ins and outs of it and can fix it yourself without wanting to kill someone. It will take you 15-20 hours to do it, but it's worth it.

You also have to be sure you get the VSS stuff right. There's a couple of guys on 914world claiming 5000rpm redlines on their swaps. There was no Subaru that ever came with a 5000rpm redline. Those guys screwed up their VSS signals.

The NA Ej20 engine would be an interesting option if it's the DOHC version. It's what's known as an Ej20D and has 150chp@6800 rpm. It's a peaky little 2.0l motor that would be perfect for a rev till you puke 914 swap. It can be made to run off of either an Ej18 or Ej22 ECU and wiring harness. If it's a SOHC Ej20 engine stay away from it. It's just a smaller Ej22 and not worth getting.

If you go with the EJ22e engine Delta makes cams for it for not a lot of money. The cams are good for 15chp right in the meat of the powerband from 4000-5500 rpm. I've run them on several engines and they really wake up that little anemic Ej22e.

Lastly, if you've got the ability (or $$$) go into the tranny and regear it a little bit. Doing a flipped ZD 5th in 3rd for a KA like the old skool racers used to do will make a swapped 914 immeasureably more fun. And of course a GT TBD would be really sweet, but that would blow half your budget just on a single part.

If there's anything I can do to help, either in the way of information and technical guidance, or parts just shoot me a PM, though I will watch this thread's progress and comment from time to time.
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Old 03-14-2009, 05:28 AM   #18
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thanks farfrumwork and matt monson, your comments are greatly appreciated. we've already picked up a JDM ej22e which im quite certain is a open deck. currently we are trying to source an engine harness/ecu and we've come across a 91 2.2 legacy harness and a 97 2.2 legacy harness. which harness would be the best to mate with the engine?, the jdm engine we have currently has a cut harness and i will go and take pictures of the plugs, which may help identify which harness i would need.

we were planning on sending the harness out to get it done professional, but lately i have been contemplating doing the harness myself, however it scares me lol. but yes the advantages would be the experience and ease to trouble shoot later down the road if problems arise. as well as the large sum of money saved. the car is going to be pretty bare, since the car does not have any luxuries like a/c and radio would this simplify the wiring?

as for power, we are definitely not going to concern ourselves with power and modifications besides intake and exhaust, at least until the car is running. but we will be refreshing the engine with all the normal maintenance.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:19 AM   #19
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Post pictures of the engine. My initial thoughts are to go with the '91 harness and ECU but I would want to see what year the engine is before I am sure.

Not having AC or radio wouldn't change anything. In a Subaru those things aren't really related to the engine and ECU.

Cams may sound like a big deal but on an Ej22 it's literally another half an hour of effort while you are doing the timing belt and the cams seals. It's literally another 11 bolts per side. The heads are hydraulic so there's no fiddling with lash adjustment. It's 10% more power for a couple hundred dollars. If you later decide you want to do it, you'll have to drop the engine and redo the timing belt job, which is something that normally has a 90K mi service interval. It's the most bang for the buck that you can do on an Ej22.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:00 AM   #20
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yea i totally thought the cams would be a big deal, but if its not much more work i'll try to look into it and see how my funds are doing and see if i can add in the cams.

im wasnt sure of what to take pictures of but here are the general pictures. if you need more specific pictures to tell which year/model this is, let me know what pictures to take.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...d/IMG_0928.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...d/IMG_0929.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...d/IMG_0930.jpg

Last edited by EvoWizard; 03-16-2009 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:12 PM   #21
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That's an early one. Get the '92 harness and ECU.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:17 AM   #22
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thanks matt! would it be any harness/ecu from a 90-96 legacy?

question about the cams, would it require a tune and aftermarket ecu? or can it be run on the stock ecu.
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:59 AM   #23
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so i picked up a harness from an early ej22, now i need an ecu and know have a line on a turbo ej22t ecu, would that work for my NA ej22?
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoWizard View Post
so i picked up a harness from an early ej22, now i need an ecu and know have a line on a turbo ej22t ecu, would that work for my NA ej22?
Nope. It may have the pins in the right place, but the ECU won't run the engine properly.
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Old 03-24-2009, 02:29 AM   #25
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Could we use the Automatic ECU, if we can't find a 5spd ECU?
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