So lost, I need direction...

whatishe · 04-08-2009, 08:32 PM

OK, here is my issue. I have a 2004 WRX wagon. It makes good power with its current 18g setup, but I want to make more, around 400 if I can. As it sits it has the following bolted on:

TurboXs ECU
FP 18G
550cc Injectors
Large TMIC
Cobb CAI
Nvidia Highflow DP
Perrin Catless UP
Full Greddy exhaust
Blitz MBC
Walbo 255 Fuel Pump
A good tune

I have bolted on most of what you can bolt on an EJ205 to make power. I am at that stage where my tuner and I agree that for 400 I'm going to need to rebuild the engine itself, but we can't figure out the best route to go. It comes down to a few options:

Sleeve my EJ205 and put in forged internals, do a shim conversion and run more aggressive cams with a big turbo
Do #1 with an EJ207 minus the sleeving and run a big turbo
Build a Hybrid 2.5L with modded WRX heads and use pistons to lower the CR, moderate size turbo
Sell the damn wagon and buy an STI, start over (this costs the same as a full swap more or less)
Buy an entire STI swap (really don't want to do this, I could buy an STI for the same amount)

I think I want to build an EJ207 but I don't know for sure. I like the hybrid for its simplicity, the parts aren't super expensive, and I can get everything together quickly. However, all the mixed things I've read about them make me nervous. I would do a full long block, but then i would want to run AVCS which means a wiring harness, ecu, and cluster out of a STI (which in turn leads to full swap, which is more money and time than I really want to invest). The full STI drivetrain swap is just too much work and is very expensive, I could buy an STI for the cost for the swap (and trading my wagon in). I don't think 400whp is a crazy goal, but with the 205 I just can't risk blowing a ringland or spinning a bearing; I want/need to build a 400whp daily driver. Does anyone have any solid advice? I've been reading, reading, and reading on what to do and all I have are more questions.

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seanathanq83 · 04-08-2009, 10:38 PM

dude i say go with the 207, i am building one to put in, it really depends what kind of money you have, and what you are going to use the car for, to get that power you are talkinga bout a decent sized turbo on a 2.0 somewhere around gt30r or bigger, depending what else you use (meth) on a 2.5 you could get it with something like a dom 3, but again it all depends on what you want to use the car for, also you will need a new tranny

AWDWRXLOVER · 04-08-2009, 10:45 PM

right now your limited by your tranny more than your engine so i wouldnt bother with more power unless you do the tranny as well.

whatishe · 04-08-2009, 11:16 PM

I have already accounted for the trans as a given. I'll be going with a 6mt and a 3.9 conversion; that part is simple, haha!

whatishe · 04-08-2009, 11:19 PM

Maybe I should just buy an STI and put forged internals in...

whatishe · 04-08-2009, 11:22 PM

I spoke with my friend/tuner tonight for about 45 min. We decided to go for the hybrid if I couldn't find an EJ207 for a decent price. Either way, the cost is going to be similar. I feel better about mating an EJ207 to WRX heads but the hybrid seems more obtainable. Does anyone know where I can get a decent price for an EJ207? I can get an STI block for 850 bucks, which is part of the reason I am heavily considering it. They major draw back for the hybrid is going to be the weeks of tuning.

seanathanq83 · 04-08-2009, 11:50 PM

JDMspecC offers great deals, see if you can just get a shortblock, most long blocks are around 3500, but you get avcs which makes a night and day difference

lapointe11 · 04-08-2009, 11:54 PM

I vote for doing away with the wagon and just buying an sti. I'm in the exact same position as you with my e316g wrx I want more power and have considered all the options you listed and have opted for an sti, its cheaper and you get all the fancy stuff lol. 2.5, trans,brembos,dccd, hid's, better everything lol. Plus it will be easier and your car won't be down as long being built etc etc.

wheatpaste · 04-09-2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatishe

Does anyone know where I can get a decent price for an EJ207?

Check the classifieds. A day or two ago, there was a woman selling a built EJ207 with WRX heads for like $3500. I think she wanted $2600 for the shortblock. There are also a few vendors in canada selling complete EJ207s for around $4000, but that includes turbo, intercooler, etc...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1704332

Also, if you're going to do a hybrid, it seems better to use the EJ255 short block with the EJ205 heads. The combustion ratio bump is less when using the EJ255 short block.

Although plenty of people have done EJ257 short block+EJ205 heads with success...

whatishe · 04-09-2009, 10:15 AM

the 255 is the NA block right? Its open deck and uses a different pump right?

whatishe · 04-09-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheatpaste

Check the classifieds. A day or two ago, there was a woman selling a built EJ207 with WRX heads for like $3500. I think she wanted $2600 for the shortblock. There are also a few vendors in canada selling complete EJ207s for around $4000, but that includes turbo, intercooler, etc...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1704332

Thanks for the heads up, hopefully that block is still around.

zeropsi · 04-09-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatishe

I spoke with my friend/tuner tonight for about 45 min. We decided to go for the hybrid if I couldn't find an EJ207 for a decent price. Either way, the cost is going to be similar. I feel better about mating an EJ207 to WRX heads but the hybrid seems more obtainable. Does anyone know where I can get a decent price for an EJ207? I can get an STI block for 850 bucks, which is part of the reason I am heavily considering it. They major draw back for the hybrid is going to be the weeks of tuning.

Mine definitely didn't require weeks of tuning. I really don't get that misconception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheatpaste

Check the classifieds. A day or two ago, there was a woman selling a built EJ207 with WRX heads for like $3500. I think she wanted $2600 for the shortblock. There are also a few vendors in canada selling complete EJ207s for around $4000, but that includes turbo, intercooler, etc...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1704332

Also, if you're going to do a hybrid, it seems better to use the EJ255 short block with the EJ205 heads. The combustion ratio bump is less when using the EJ255 short block.

Although plenty of people have done EJ257 short block+EJ205 heads with success...

EJ205 heads + EJ255 shortblock will lead to even higher compression ratio! The EJ257 is lower compression from the factory, and the smaller combustion chambers in the EJ205 heads will just make it even higher.

I have EJ207 heads on my EJ257 and it's doing just fine - @ 8.8:1 compression.

whatishe · 04-09-2009, 11:03 AM

I think I'm doing a 207, but we'll see. The goal is to reuse my 205 heads if possible on either build. I recognize on the 257 or 255 that would mean using special pistons and/or a head gasket to lower CR. Do the 207 heads have avcs? I can't support that on my usdm ecu.

zeropsi · 04-09-2009, 11:07 AM

V7 and up 207 heads do.

V6 and earlier do not.

whatishe · 04-09-2009, 01:23 PM

I'm getting a EJ207, mating it to modded 205 heads. I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone have a 6mt for sale =P

gto7419 · 04-09-2009, 01:42 PM

Ive got a 6mt with a bunch of supporting parts... pm me your cell number and we can talk...

wheatpaste · 04-09-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zer0psi

Mine definitely didn't require weeks of tuning. I really don't get that misconception.

EJ205 heads + EJ255 shortblock will lead to even higher compression ratio! The EJ257 is lower compression from the factory, and the smaller combustion chambers in the EJ205 heads will just make it even higher.

I will find the thread for you that shows otherwise. The EJ257 does have lower compression from the factory, but you are talking about a long block. The pistons in the EJ257 are different than in the EJ255.

And when I say EJ255, I mean the motor that is in the 06-07 WRX.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Read this:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1667168

Compression ratio with EJ205 heads and EJ257 block is 8.84:1. Compression ratio with EJ205 heads and EJ255 block is 8.64:1. Yeah, it's not a huge difference, but every little bit counts.

But like I said, and like zer0psi said, lots of people run 2.0 heads on the EJ257 block without much drama.

zeropsi · 04-09-2009, 05:49 PM

Forgot about the difference in heads between the two. 255/257 have different combustion chamber volumes. D'oh!

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04-08-2009, 08:32 PM	#1
whatishe Scooby Specialist Member#: 65711 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX Wagon 2.5 Hybrid STI Conversion	So lost, I need direction... OK, here is my issue. I have a 2004 WRX wagon. It makes good power with its current 18g setup, but I want to make more, around 400 if I can. As it sits it has the following bolted on: TurboXs ECU FP 18G 550cc Injectors Large TMIC Cobb CAI Nvidia Highflow DP Perrin Catless UP Full Greddy exhaust Blitz MBC Walbo 255 Fuel Pump A good tune I have bolted on most of what you can bolt on an EJ205 to make power. I am at that stage where my tuner and I agree that for 400 I'm going to need to rebuild the engine itself, but we can't figure out the best route to go. It comes down to a few options: Sleeve my EJ205 and put in forged internals, do a shim conversion and run more aggressive cams with a big turbo Do #1 with an EJ207 minus the sleeving and run a big turbo Build a Hybrid 2.5L with modded WRX heads and use pistons to lower the CR, moderate size turbo Sell the damn wagon and buy an STI, start over (this costs the same as a full swap more or less) Buy an entire STI swap (really don't want to do this, I could buy an STI for the same amount) I think I want to build an EJ207 but I don't know for sure. I like the hybrid for its simplicity, the parts aren't super expensive, and I can get everything together quickly. However, all the mixed things I've read about them make me nervous. I would do a full long block, but then i would want to run AVCS which means a wiring harness, ecu, and cluster out of a STI (which in turn leads to full swap, which is more money and time than I really want to invest). The full STI drivetrain swap is just too much work and is very expensive, I could buy an STI for the cost for the swap (and trading my wagon in). I don't think 400whp is a crazy goal, but with the 205 I just can't risk blowing a ringland or spinning a bearing; I want/need to build a 400whp daily driver. Does anyone have any solid advice? I've been reading, reading, and reading on what to do and all I have are more questions. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads. Last edited by whatishe; 04-08-2009 at 11:18 PM.

04-08-2009, 10:38 PM	#2
seanathanq83 Scooby Specialist Member#: 173241 Join Date: Feb 2008 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 2002 s256 twinscroll now with one more gear	dude i say go with the 207, i am building one to put in, it really depends what kind of money you have, and what you are going to use the car for, to get that power you are talkinga bout a decent sized turbo on a 2.0 somewhere around gt30r or bigger, depending what else you use (meth) on a 2.5 you could get it with something like a dom 3, but again it all depends on what you want to use the car for, also you will need a new tranny

04-08-2009, 10:45 PM	#3
AWDWRXLOVER Scooby Specialist Member#: 50267 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: SWIC Vehicle: 02 built hybrid sr55/meth/sick speed	right now your limited by your tranny more than your engine so i wouldnt bother with more power unless you do the tranny as well.

04-08-2009, 11:16 PM	#4
whatishe Scooby Specialist Member#: 65711 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX Wagon 2.5 Hybrid STI Conversion	I have already accounted for the trans as a given. I'll be going with a 6mt and a 3.9 conversion; that part is simple, haha!

04-08-2009, 11:19 PM	#5
whatishe Scooby Specialist Member#: 65711 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX Wagon 2.5 Hybrid STI Conversion	Maybe I should just buy an STI and put forged internals in...

04-08-2009, 11:22 PM	#6
whatishe Scooby Specialist Member#: 65711 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX Wagon 2.5 Hybrid STI Conversion	I spoke with my friend/tuner tonight for about 45 min. We decided to go for the hybrid if I couldn't find an EJ207 for a decent price. Either way, the cost is going to be similar. I feel better about mating an EJ207 to WRX heads but the hybrid seems more obtainable. Does anyone know where I can get a decent price for an EJ207? I can get an STI block for 850 bucks, which is part of the reason I am heavily considering it. They major draw back for the hybrid is going to be the weeks of tuning.

04-08-2009, 11:50 PM	#7
seanathanq83 Scooby Specialist Member#: 173241 Join Date: Feb 2008 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 2002 s256 twinscroll now with one more gear	JDMspecC offers great deals, see if you can just get a shortblock, most long blocks are around 3500, but you get avcs which makes a night and day difference

04-08-2009, 11:54 PM	#8
lapointe11 Scooby Newbie Member#: 175232 Join Date: Mar 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Spokane, WA Vehicle: 2005 WRX CGM	I vote for doing away with the wagon and just buying an sti. I'm in the exact same position as you with my e316g wrx I want more power and have considered all the options you listed and have opted for an sti, its cheaper and you get all the fancy stuff lol. 2.5, trans,brembos,dccd, hid's, better everything lol. Plus it will be easier and your car won't be down as long being built etc etc.

04-09-2009, 10:15 AM	#10
whatishe Scooby Specialist Member#: 65711 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX Wagon 2.5 Hybrid STI Conversion	the 255 is the NA block right? Its open deck and uses a different pump right?

04-09-2009, 11:03 AM	#13
whatishe Scooby Specialist Member#: 65711 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX Wagon 2.5 Hybrid STI Conversion	I think I'm doing a 207, but we'll see. The goal is to reuse my 205 heads if possible on either build. I recognize on the 257 or 255 that would mean using special pistons and/or a head gasket to lower CR. Do the 207 heads have avcs? I can't support that on my usdm ecu.

04-09-2009, 11:07 AM	#14
zeropsi * Banned * Member#: 175453 Join Date: Mar 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: wilCO, IL Vehicle: AE86 GT-S coupe i <3 alqonquin homosauce	V7 and up 207 heads do. V6 and earlier do not.

04-09-2009, 01:23 PM	#15
whatishe Scooby Specialist Member#: 65711 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX Wagon 2.5 Hybrid STI Conversion	I'm getting a EJ207, mating it to modded 205 heads. I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone have a 6mt for sale =P

04-09-2009, 01:42 PM	#16
gto7419 Scooby Specialist Member#: 44256 Join Date: Sep 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Long Island, NY Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon	Ive got a 6mt with a bunch of supporting parts... pm me your cell number and we can talk...

04-09-2009, 05:49 PM	#18
zeropsi * Banned * Member#: 175453 Join Date: Mar 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: wilCO, IL Vehicle: AE86 GT-S coupe i <3 alqonquin homosauce	Forgot about the difference in heads between the two. 255/257 have different combustion chamber volumes. D'oh!