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Old 04-08-2009, 08:32 PM   #1
whatishe
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2.5 Hybrid STI Conversion

Default So lost, I need direction...

OK, here is my issue. I have a 2004 WRX wagon. It makes good power with its current 18g setup, but I want to make more, around 400 if I can. As it sits it has the following bolted on:
  • TurboXs ECU
  • FP 18G
  • 550cc Injectors
  • Large TMIC
  • Cobb CAI
  • Nvidia Highflow DP
  • Perrin Catless UP
  • Full Greddy exhaust
  • Blitz MBC
  • Walbo 255 Fuel Pump
  • A good tune

I have bolted on most of what you can bolt on an EJ205 to make power. I am at that stage where my tuner and I agree that for 400 I'm going to need to rebuild the engine itself, but we can't figure out the best route to go. It comes down to a few options:
  1. Sleeve my EJ205 and put in forged internals, do a shim conversion and run more aggressive cams with a big turbo
  2. Do #1 with an EJ207 minus the sleeving and run a big turbo
  3. Build a Hybrid 2.5L with modded WRX heads and use pistons to lower the CR, moderate size turbo
  4. Sell the damn wagon and buy an STI, start over (this costs the same as a full swap more or less)
  5. Buy an entire STI swap (really don't want to do this, I could buy an STI for the same amount)

I think I want to build an EJ207 but I don't know for sure. I like the hybrid for its simplicity, the parts aren't super expensive, and I can get everything together quickly. However, all the mixed things I've read about them make me nervous. I would do a full long block, but then i would want to run AVCS which means a wiring harness, ecu, and cluster out of a STI (which in turn leads to full swap, which is more money and time than I really want to invest). The full STI drivetrain swap is just too much work and is very expensive, I could buy an STI for the cost for the swap (and trading my wagon in). I don't think 400whp is a crazy goal, but with the 205 I just can't risk blowing a ringland or spinning a bearing; I want/need to build a 400whp daily driver. Does anyone have any solid advice? I've been reading, reading, and reading on what to do and all I have are more questions.
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Last edited by whatishe; 04-08-2009 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:38 PM   #2
seanathanq83
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dude i say go with the 207, i am building one to put in, it really depends what kind of money you have, and what you are going to use the car for, to get that power you are talkinga bout a decent sized turbo on a 2.0 somewhere around gt30r or bigger, depending what else you use (meth) on a 2.5 you could get it with something like a dom 3, but again it all depends on what you want to use the car for, also you will need a new tranny
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:45 PM   #3
AWDWRXLOVER
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right now your limited by your tranny more than your engine so i wouldnt bother with more power unless you do the tranny as well.
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:16 PM   #4
whatishe
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I have already accounted for the trans as a given. I'll be going with a 6mt and a 3.9 conversion; that part is simple, haha!
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:19 PM   #5
whatishe
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Maybe I should just buy an STI and put forged internals in...
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:22 PM   #6
whatishe
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2.5 Hybrid STI Conversion

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I spoke with my friend/tuner tonight for about 45 min. We decided to go for the hybrid if I couldn't find an EJ207 for a decent price. Either way, the cost is going to be similar. I feel better about mating an EJ207 to WRX heads but the hybrid seems more obtainable. Does anyone know where I can get a decent price for an EJ207? I can get an STI block for 850 bucks, which is part of the reason I am heavily considering it. They major draw back for the hybrid is going to be the weeks of tuning.
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:50 PM   #7
seanathanq83
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JDMspecC offers great deals, see if you can just get a shortblock, most long blocks are around 3500, but you get avcs which makes a night and day difference
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:54 PM   #8
lapointe11
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I vote for doing away with the wagon and just buying an sti. I'm in the exact same position as you with my e316g wrx I want more power and have considered all the options you listed and have opted for an sti, its cheaper and you get all the fancy stuff lol. 2.5, trans,brembos,dccd, hid's, better everything lol. Plus it will be easier and your car won't be down as long being built etc etc.
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Old 04-09-2009, 01:32 AM   #9
wheatpaste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatishe View Post
Does anyone know where I can get a decent price for an EJ207?
Check the classifieds. A day or two ago, there was a woman selling a built EJ207 with WRX heads for like $3500. I think she wanted $2600 for the shortblock. There are also a few vendors in canada selling complete EJ207s for around $4000, but that includes turbo, intercooler, etc...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1704332

Also, if you're going to do a hybrid, it seems better to use the EJ255 short block with the EJ205 heads. The combustion ratio bump is less when using the EJ255 short block.

Although plenty of people have done EJ257 short block+EJ205 heads with success...

Last edited by wheatpaste; 04-09-2009 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:15 AM   #10
whatishe
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2.5 Hybrid STI Conversion

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the 255 is the NA block right? Its open deck and uses a different pump right?
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:18 AM   #11
whatishe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatpaste View Post
Check the classifieds. A day or two ago, there was a woman selling a built EJ207 with WRX heads for like $3500. I think she wanted $2600 for the shortblock. There are also a few vendors in canada selling complete EJ207s for around $4000, but that includes turbo, intercooler, etc...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1704332
Thanks for the heads up, hopefully that block is still around.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:22 AM   #12
zeropsi
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatishe View Post
I spoke with my friend/tuner tonight for about 45 min. We decided to go for the hybrid if I couldn't find an EJ207 for a decent price. Either way, the cost is going to be similar. I feel better about mating an EJ207 to WRX heads but the hybrid seems more obtainable. Does anyone know where I can get a decent price for an EJ207? I can get an STI block for 850 bucks, which is part of the reason I am heavily considering it. They major draw back for the hybrid is going to be the weeks of tuning.
Mine definitely didn't require weeks of tuning. I really don't get that misconception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatpaste View Post
Check the classifieds. A day or two ago, there was a woman selling a built EJ207 with WRX heads for like $3500. I think she wanted $2600 for the shortblock. There are also a few vendors in canada selling complete EJ207s for around $4000, but that includes turbo, intercooler, etc...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1704332

Also, if you're going to do a hybrid, it seems better to use the EJ255 short block with the EJ205 heads. The combustion ratio bump is less when using the EJ255 short block.

Although plenty of people have done EJ257 short block+EJ205 heads with success...
EJ205 heads + EJ255 shortblock will lead to even higher compression ratio! The EJ257 is lower compression from the factory, and the smaller combustion chambers in the EJ205 heads will just make it even higher.

I have EJ207 heads on my EJ257 and it's doing just fine - @ 8.8:1 compression.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:03 AM   #13
whatishe
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I think I'm doing a 207, but we'll see. The goal is to reuse my 205 heads if possible on either build. I recognize on the 257 or 255 that would mean using special pistons and/or a head gasket to lower CR. Do the 207 heads have avcs? I can't support that on my usdm ecu.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:07 AM   #14
zeropsi
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V7 and up 207 heads do.

V6 and earlier do not.
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Old 04-09-2009, 01:23 PM   #15
whatishe
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I'm getting a EJ207, mating it to modded 205 heads. I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone have a 6mt for sale =P
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Old 04-09-2009, 01:42 PM   #16
gto7419
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Ive got a 6mt with a bunch of supporting parts... pm me your cell number and we can talk...
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:08 PM   #17
wheatpaste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zer0psi View Post
Mine definitely didn't require weeks of tuning. I really don't get that misconception.



EJ205 heads + EJ255 shortblock will lead to even higher compression ratio! The EJ257 is lower compression from the factory, and the smaller combustion chambers in the EJ205 heads will just make it even higher.
I will find the thread for you that shows otherwise. The EJ257 does have lower compression from the factory, but you are talking about a long block. The pistons in the EJ257 are different than in the EJ255.

And when I say EJ255, I mean the motor that is in the 06-07 WRX.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Read this:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1667168

Compression ratio with EJ205 heads and EJ257 block is 8.84:1. Compression ratio with EJ205 heads and EJ255 block is 8.64:1. Yeah, it's not a huge difference, but every little bit counts.

But like I said, and like zer0psi said, lots of people run 2.0 heads on the EJ257 block without much drama.

Last edited by wheatpaste; 04-09-2009 at 05:22 PM. Reason: added link
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:49 PM   #18
zeropsi
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Forgot about the difference in heads between the two. 255/257 have different combustion chamber volumes. D'oh!
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