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Old 04-09-2009, 12:41 PM   #1
stg2wgn
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Default td05 18g vs. td05 20g?

i would like to see some comparing numbers. im still not sure which i should go after this summer. also i dont want to totally destroy my stock tranny/engine. and to have some people help decide on my decision, im looking for more than 315 whp, though im partial to 1/4 mile times, however the car will be used for autocross every-so-often. like maybe 2-3 times a summer.
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Old 04-09-2009, 12:44 PM   #2
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with those two turbos your going to HAVE to be VERY careful with a stock 2003 gearbox. Your gears are a little better than the 2002 gears but you are chancing your gears with those turbos.
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Old 04-09-2009, 01:03 PM   #3
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I would go with the 20g if i were you!

Here is the MOD list and results of my 05 WRX
Grimspeed EWG uppipe
Tial 38mm EWG
Perrin turbo back exhaust
Blouch td05-20g
CXRacing FMIC
840cc Modified stock injectors
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Running E85
The Dyno is just above 5500ft in elevation. The ambient temprature was 67 F. And all pulls were dont at 21 psi. it is spooled by 3600 rpm
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Old 04-09-2009, 02:31 PM   #4
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If you want numbers search the PPB forum. If you want advice, you want the 18G especially if you are autcrossing and fearing for your tranny and this advice is the best advice in the history of ever.
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Old 04-09-2009, 02:35 PM   #5
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^ Best advice in the history of EVER!
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Old 04-09-2009, 02:54 PM   #6
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The 20g is not the ideal turbo for the 205. As you can see on the dyno graph, your not making full power till after 5500. It's just WAY too short of a powerband. An 18g is a lot more suitable for the 2.0l...
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sicWRX View Post
The 20g is not the ideal turbo for the 205. As you can see on the dyno graph, your not making full power till after 5500. It's just WAY too short of a powerband. An 18g is a lot more suitable for the 2.0l...

I'll take the counterpoint. No turbo makes peak hp before 5500ish on an ej205, and usually even later than that; but look how much torque there is by 4500. Also, he said he sees full spool by 3600, so he could have torque even sooner on the street. A dyno loads the car differently than actual driving. And finally, when you run to redline and then shift again, you don't drop down lower than his peak torque is; so that powerband looks great to me...


And it's you're, not your...
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:25 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jason miller View Post
I'll take the counterpoint. No turbo makes peak hp before 5500ish on an ej205, and usually even later than that; but look how much torque there is by 4500. Also, he said he sees full spool by 3600, so he could have torque even sooner on the street. A dyno loads the car differently than actual driving. And finally, when you run to redline and then shift again, you don't drop down lower than his peak torque is; so that powerband looks great to me...


And it's you're, not your...
Which is fine for being on a fast track or even down the 1/4 mile. Around town where you can't just gear down in to second or third and have 3500+ rpm to spool that big 20G. Making the 20G a not ideal DD turbo.

I really just see no point in running a turbo that big just to say you are and so you can have Penis extension dyno numbers. Not with the 5spd which will likely blow up anyway with 20G peak power.

Not any direct offence to anyone with a 20g. If you like making big power...good for you. I'll take a 60 or 80 peak hp cut for around town power any day using a nice 16G or maybe even 18G.
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:36 PM   #9
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^ Truths
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:51 PM   #10
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Alright, how often do you need full spool in your daily driver? A few pounds of boost through a 20g should be way more than necessary to manuever through traffic with a daily driver. In fact, I don't make any boost at all most days when I'm just going to class or running errands...

And just because we have weak transmissions doesn't necessarily mean a 20g will blow yours while a 16g wouldn't. In fact, I've pm'ed some people held in high esteem by the nasioc community that think the smoother transition into torque with a larger turbo is in fact less likely to blow the transmission. And there are several people on here with 18g's and 20g's making some serious power that don't have any tranny problems. At the same time, some people break them with stock power. It's my opinion that any turbo upgrade is not a good idea for the tranny, and your individual driving habits make the majority of the difference.
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason miller View Post
I'll take the counterpoint. No turbo makes peak hp before 5500ish on an ej205, and usually even later than that; but look how much torque there is by 4500. Also, he said he sees full spool by 3600, so he could have torque even sooner on the street. A dyno loads the car differently than actual driving. And finally, when you run to redline and then shift again, you don't drop down lower than his peak torque is; so that powerband looks great to me...


And it's you're, not your...
Point taken... We can all agree that a 20g would suck for autocross on the 2.0l and not exactly ideal for spirited street driving. It's good for other things like the OP said. I just feel the 18g is a good compromise when it comes to doing things well in most environments.

You don't have to be dick about a minuscule grammar error. You must not have searched around the forums much to experience the kiddies with their texting langauge quite yet
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:00 PM   #12
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The main thing I think is important when discussing "g" series turbos is this: From what I've seen through nearly religious checking of ppb over the past couple years, a td05 7cm exhaust setup will pretty much spool any "g" series turbo between 3250-3750 rpm when well tuned and on the road or a normal loading dyno. The difference is that for some reason, a 20g will tend to have smoother and slightly later torque, even when spooled similarly to a 16g. That one I don't fully understand, but it's what seems to happen.

Edit: Looking at some more dyno charts, the reason a 20g has peak torque later makes sense. If you look at the 20g chart posted above, he's making the same torque as most smaller "g" turbos when they hit peak torque. However, the 20g continues to make more torque, which means the peak will obviously be later. Seriously now, show me a 16g hitting 300 lb/ft at 3800 rpm, and then tell me a 20g is a terrible daily driver turbo...

Last edited by jason miller; 04-10-2009 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sicWRX View Post
Point taken... We can all agree that a 20g would suck for autocross on the 2.0l and not exactly ideal for spirited street driving. It's good for other things like the OP said. I just feel the 18g is a good compromise when it comes to doing things well in most environments.

You don't have to be dick about a minuscule grammar error. You must not have searched around the forums much to experience the kiddies with their texting langauge quite yet

Didn't mean to sound dickish with the note of your grammar. I just really don't understand why people so frequently confuse "you are" becoming "your" instead of "you're"...

I agree that a 20g would suck for autocross. On a tight autox course, the stocker is probably going to be the best option. But I don't think daily driving a 20g would suck. I have an evo3 16g right now, and really wish I had gone 20g. Spool would be the same or similar, torque onset would be smoother, and it would pull harder up top. Plus, you could still have a couple pounds on tap pretty quickly if you needed to pass someone, and it wouldn't take long to really get rolling...
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:10 PM   #14
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To the OP, sorry for getting off topic. You mentioned 315 whp, which seems kind of arbitrary, but 315 whp and transmission friendly aren't necessarily two things that go hand in hand. It can and has been done, but carefull driving and a little luck are required. Also, a turbo that's going to make 315 whp on any standard dyno is probably not going to be your best setup on a tight autocross course, but a 16g with some meth and/or race gas would probably be your best bet. Also, supporting mods like external wastegate, tgv deletes, header, and porting anything you possibly can will help with response and overall power.
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason miller View Post
Didn't mean to sound dickish with the note of your grammar. I just really don't understand why people so frequently confuse "you are" becoming "your" instead of "you're"...
I know the difference and I am not confused about it. It's a ****ing internet chat room for gods sake man. Unless I stated every word with a capital letter or had continuous run on sentences than you can call me out on it. Otherwise, keep it to yourself since I'm one of the few people who make an effort in writing legibly as possible here...
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:31 PM   #16
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note to self- don't correct 1sicWRX... I've purposely not pointed out any of your other grammatical errors since, and will continue refraining from such in the future. My apologies. It's honestly just the "you're" one that drives me nuts, because it's so common. I'm starting to think people honestly don't know the difference. You, however, apparently do.
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason miller View Post
note to self- don't correct 1sicWRX... I've purposely not pointed out any of your other grammatical errors since, and will continue refraining from such in the future. My apologies. It's honestly just the "you're" one that drives me nuts, because it's so common. I'm starting to think people honestly don't know the difference. You, however, apparently do.
I'm just having one of those days man... I'll be the first to stand corrected but they're so many jackasses who post crap that is seriously almost unreadable. Many try here to keep a level of intellectualism here so when I get called out for a minor infraction like that I get pissed. It's just so frustrating with a a lot of the newer members. They type in text language or another form of the English language and trying to decipher it drives me nuts. Anyways, good day to you sir...
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:51 PM   #18
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All depends on what ya want bro. here is my take

1) Tranny wont magically shatter. If you drive the car responsibly you will be fine
2) Big turbos dont scare me, boost is just a downshift away.
3) GET A GOOD TUNE. ITS ALL IN THE TUNE

and THAT is the best advice in the history of ever
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Old 04-09-2009, 06:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by 1sicWRX View Post
I know the difference and I am not confused about it. It's a ****ing internet chat room for gods sake man. Unless I stated every word with a capital letter or had continuous run on sentences than you can call me out on it. Otherwise, keep it to yourself since I'm one of the few people who make an effort in writing legibly as possible here...
That's God's sake to you buddy!
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:32 PM   #20
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That's Gods' sake, it's possesive therefore saying for God is sake would be incorrect. Since he was using it in a possesive sense of the word the apostraphy (sp?) in uneeded. Though I must say when people say I could care less when in fact they mean couldn't care less drives me up the wall. Op I am in your same boat. With taxes coming back I have the funds to go for a bigger turbo I think I will go 18 or 20 as well. Which ever I can find for the best respective price. I'll be watching here for more info.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:49 PM   #21
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God's IS possessive... You only put the apostrophe after the s if what you're making possessive has that s because it's plural. Since we commonly refer to one singular "God" in this country, God's is possessive. And if you had meant gods in the plural form, you wouldn't capitalize the G.

I can't believe I just typed that...
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS WRX View Post
All depends on what ya want bro. here is my take

1) Tranny wont magically shatter. If you drive the car responsibly you will be fine
2) Big turbos dont scare me, boost is just a downshift away.
3) GET A GOOD TUNE. ITS ALL IN THE TUNE

and THAT is the best advice in the history of ever
ill 2nd that advice. people always seem to think that a big turbo breaks gears when thats not the truth. bad or hard driving breaks gears.
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:58 PM   #23
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it would be nice if the threads werent filled w/ negative ppl i.e. correcting punctuation. as you can see i post like a text message its not a big deal. i am not typing an essay. also, alot of us are on here trying to get info not drama. plz can we get some more posts of pertinent info? and enough about the tranny problems...we get it.
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Old 04-10-2009, 07:30 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
If you want numbers search the PPB forum. If you want advice, you want the 18G especially if you are autcrossing and fearing for your tranny and this advice is the best advice in the history of ever.
Quite a convincing arguement, as usual. 20g is not quite going to get it done in autox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krang View Post
^ Best advice in the history of EVER!
Nuff said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerickRyoung View Post
it would be nice if the threads werent filled w/ negative ppl i.e. correcting punctuation. as you can see i post like a text message its not a big deal. i am not typing an essay. also, alot of us are on here trying to get info not drama. plz can we get some more posts of pertinent info? and enough about the tranny problems...we get it.
My friend blew his transmission on his 04 wrx with 42000 miles on it with stock turbo, just minor bolt ons. I agree its all in how you drive it. He regularly dropped the clutch and drove it hard. You drive your car like you stole it, something is going to break; at the worst time possible. That, is Murphy's Law.....

If someone types something that actually contributes positively to a thread and it has some sort of valuable information; probably would just let it slide... Now when someone says something totally unimportant and ALSO types via text message abbreviations-maybe time to put your "D" down. Just my opinion for what it may be worth.

Ps if i had a punctuation error, be sure to highlight it with your red pen and return it to me with my test on Monday. When we are all back in class.......
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:02 PM   #25
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I don't mean that you need full spool around town. I mean part throttle times when you are cruising in 4th or 5th (with a little more speed but not on a highway) or say going up a long 4 lane undivided hill. If I want to slowly pass anyone I don't want to drop a gear to pick up a few clicks or sit and wait and wait for a big turbo to make a few psi by going half throttle. I also don't want to drive around at 3000rpm if I don't have to. Obviously most of this is the general nature of a turbo car.

Spool does depend on many many things obviously like said. Tune being the big important one.

The 2.0 is just pretty gutless out of boost because of small displacement and low compression.
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