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Old 04-10-2009, 02:59 PM   #1
makofoto
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Default May Grassroots Motorsports Mag ... 1 G on Street Tires & WRX

Unfortunately they use the '08 dog WRX ... but still looks like a good article. Effect on AX times after each of these "mods," adjusting tire pressures, adding coilovers, alignment, rear sway bar, adjusting front shocks, front sway bar, Nitto NT05 tires, stiffening rear bar, adjusting tire pressures and shocks again, switching to Nitto NT01's ... with a bunch of interesting side bars.

Like the Oct. 2007 article where they essentially did the same with an earlier WRX wagon.
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Old 04-10-2009, 03:04 PM   #2
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anyone want to post her up - or am I gonna have to run out and find one (nearest store that carries it is 30 miles away )
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Old 04-10-2009, 03:21 PM   #3
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Go to their website and order your free first copy ...
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Old 04-10-2009, 04:56 PM   #4
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Got my GRM issue earlier this week. It's definitely a good read.
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Old 04-10-2009, 04:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky NRK View Post
anyone want to post her up - or am I gonna have to run out and find one (nearest store that carries it is 30 miles away )
It would end up getting taken down. Just spend the $5 (or less)
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Old 04-10-2009, 05:04 PM   #6
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An interesting article.

I thought it was funny that they pushed the camber plates out to 3 degrees, but kept 1/4" of toe out for "better turn in". I think they were too lazy to adjust the tie rods. I mean 1/4"?
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Old 04-10-2009, 05:14 PM   #7
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I'm also surprised they didn't bring the toe into zero for the skidpad test. Once the "turn-in" phase is complete, the toe out is not helping the car get around the pad. Could be a reason why they burned through the first set of tires so quickly too.....

Maybe one of the guys from GRM will chime in with more background info.

Jay
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Old 04-10-2009, 05:34 PM   #8
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Interesting. I'll have to run out and pick one up.
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:11 PM   #9
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When I did the EVO Set-Up school a few years ago, we spent the morning setting up the car for fastest lap and even tire temps on a skid pad (insides about 10 degrees warmer). We would do three runs in each direction, and then make adjustments. I had custom Tein Flex's, 12K/10K springs, Hotchkis bars, adjustable lateral links, camber/caster plates, sub-frame bolts, racing bushings - a SM set-up. With the '03 WRX set-up nicely for the skid pad, it was way too loose on the autocross course in the afternoon, especially in transition/slaloms. We had to go back and soften the rear and if I recall correctly we added some rear camber, perhaps took away some of the toe out in the rear. I'm sure a better driver would have been able to use some of that looseness, but both my co-drive and I had to dial some of it out.
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Old 04-10-2009, 07:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
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It would end up getting taken down. Just spend the $5 (or less)
no prob, i will get one i next time in town - didn't know if it would be an issue
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Old 04-10-2009, 08:41 PM   #11
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Uh ... copyright laws. There are people that earn a living producing magazines. They don't when they're given away.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:09 PM   #12
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The article was lame. Don't bother.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Uh ... copyright laws. There are people that earn a living producing magazines. They don't when they're given away.
and they are members here too.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
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The article was lame. Don't bother.
I thought the article was fine if you take it for what it is. The relative improvements of each change are still educational even if their alignment was unorthodox. Plus their skid pad numbers seemed reasonable. I did email them asking to do a follow-up showing the data from the WL ALK and RCK kits, and the rear camber bushings, as well as from adding more caster and maxing the camber bolts while minimizing the camber addition from the camber plates. We'll see if they step up...

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Old 04-10-2009, 11:08 PM   #15
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What was the actual G number, and by street tires do they mean the Nitto?

I did a sustained at 1.02g average (one lap in each direction) in a 2006 STI - Ohlin's and Continental Sport Contact 3's - -3.5' front camber, 1/8th total toe out, 0 toe in rear, -1.5' camber in rear...


Jon
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:42 PM   #16
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it was pretty good overall

few pieces of info were off- the 08 has a 15mm rear sway bar, not a 19mm one

they wanted to "retain the stock alignment of -1.5 up front"- you'd be very lucky to get that w/ stock hardware- the oe spec front camber is only -0.1

the side bar discussion on the WL roll center kit missed the mark IMO- they talked a bunch about bump steer and nata about roll center, the tie rod end is simply along for the ride to counter the longer ball joint needed to raise the roll center

I'm not going to complain too much though, the WRX even made the cover
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Old 04-13-2009, 07:04 PM   #17
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Picked it up yesterday, finally read it today. Are NT01's really considered street tires?

The article was okay, but when it said "Street tires" I thought it actually meant "street tires" and not R-Compounds.
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Old 04-13-2009, 07:14 PM   #18
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They achieved an indicated 1+ g's with streets, ie. the Nitto NT05, after adjusting the sway bar and tire pressures ... and THEN went on to the NT01.

A properly set-up STX/WRX or STU/STI will easily corner at more then 1 G with street tires.
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Old 04-13-2009, 07:21 PM   #19
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1g on the Traqmate, but not the real calculated number... unless I'm reading the number wrong. If you really want to get down to it, they got 1g on the traqmate with RE92s, even, but I thought only the calculated value counted.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makofoto View Post
They achieved an indicated 1+ g's with streets, ie. the Nitto NT05, after adjusting the sway bar and tire pressures ... and THEN went on to the NT01.

A properly set-up STX/WRX or STU/STI will easily corner at more then 1 G with street tires.
so what were they doing wrong? Inquiring minds want to know...
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:09 PM   #21
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STX/STU prep:

Higher end coilovers with MUCH stiffer springs ... 10k/12k

possibly a much bigger front sway bar, ie. 27 mm.

smaller rear bar

less weight through sport seat, light weight exhaust/downpipe, light weight wheels

wider wheels, shaved tires

lowered (our tests, with National Championship winning STX WRX's, show that the benefits of lowering outweigh optimal suspension geometry) Not sure where the GRM WRX was, but typically a STX car is at around 13.5" ride height

more aggressive alignment, ie. -4 or more camber, +6 caster, more toe out front and back

stiffer bushings

... but as I pointed out above, an optimal skid pad set-up might not work in a transition rich auto cross environment
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:18 PM   #22
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I ran some numbers. The difference between indicated and calculated Gs was about 1.1 (= traqmate/calculated) for every test they did. They stated that the difference between the 2 was because of body roll - the meter rolled, so gravity became a factor. Based on this the body roll would have been 12 degrees. Seems wrong.

Not saying the values were wrong, but I wonder why the calculated vs. measured G was so big. I'll run some more numbers at work when I am more sober.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:29 PM   #23
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I'm not familiar w/ the Nitto's they ran, but would wager that any of the top tier ST tires (especially shaved) would have yielded better numbers
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:41 PM   #24
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There were definitely some wierd moments in the test, where they did something that you'd think would really help and it made the car slower around the skidpad - just another reminder of the gap between theory and reality - and between different versions of reality (i.e. autox vs track vs skidpad vs rallyx etc etc)
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Old 04-14-2009, 01:59 AM   #25
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In the test they did a couple of years ago with the same car, Oct. '07 ... 10 mods with new lap times after each mod ... adding the coilovers did almost nothing ... except make the car easier to drive consistently at the limit ... if I recall correctly. But it doesn't seem they're really taking the time to find the best settings with the shocks.
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