Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday October 21, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-10-2009, 05:31 PM   #1
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default 100mm Wiseco Ring Gap Specs Needed... Wiseco Engine Builders Please Help

Ok.. well i called Wiseco looking for Ring gap for 100mm wisecos. Told them this was on a modified Subaru. Aprx. 500whp. They gave me .003 piston to wall clearance which i believe is correct. However they told me that the top ring gap is .020-.022' and the 2nd at .016-.18".

Well my engine builder has now filed them specs that the Tech department at Wiseco told me.. however one of the guys at my engine shop said the 2nd is always larger then the first.

What are shops running these Wisecos at?? Im going to be pretty upset with wiseco if they told me wrong and I have to purchase a new set and than pay for my builder to refile them. I even double checked with the wiseco guy... guess i should get names next time.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 06:33 PM   #2
Storm
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:
96L Most Over-
Developed Beater

Default

Look at what you typed, what you're asking, and what they told you.

You typed:
Quote:
the top ring gap is .020-.022' and the 2nd at .016-.18".
Maybe it's the punctuation flaws or maybe something else. I can't make heads or tails from what you typed. There's a big gap between .016" and .180".....

Jay
Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 07:58 PM   #3
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Look at what you typed, what you're asking, and what they told you.

You typed:
Maybe it's the punctuation flaws or maybe something else. I can't make heads or tails from what you typed. There's a big gap between .016" and .180".....

Jay
Ya.. obviously its .018"

Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 08:32 PM   #4
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default

Here guy's. Did a few hours of researching. This is from Wiseco

Ring Gap Table Instructions
1) Cylinder bore size must be in inches. If measuring millimeters, divide
bore by 25.4.
2) Multiply your bore size by the “x Bore” column for your application.


Min. Gap Per Inch of Bore
Top Ring 2nd Ring Oil Ring Rail



______________________________Top Ring____ 2nd Ring_____ Oil Ring Rail
Application____________________Bore x ........ Bore x .........Min. Gap
High-Perf. Street/Strip ............... .0040” ......... .0050” ........... .015”
Street-Moderate Turbo/Nitrous .. .0050” ......... .0055” ........... .015”
Late Model Stock ....................... .0050” ......... .0053” ........... .015”
Circle Track/Drag Race ............. .0055”.......... .0057” ........... .015”
Nitrous Race Only ...................... .0070” .......... .0073” ........... .015”
Blown Race Only ....................... .0060” ......... .0063” ........... .015”

NOTE: The chart above is a general end gaps guideline. Each ring should
be fi tted to the particular cylinder in which they are to be installed. The
gap on the 2nd ring should always be larger than the top ring end gap,
this will help
reduce top ring
fl utter.


http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/Sport...ccessories.pdf

Above is the link. Scroll to the end of page.. gives you great info

Last edited by Hayaboosted; 04-10-2009 at 09:01 PM.
Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 08:54 PM   #5
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default

Well from what my calculations are.. Wiseco Told me in the reverse order.. This is how it should be

Wisecos Hi Performance. Street/Strip setup Would be:
Top Ring @ .016"-.018" & 2nd ring @ .020"-.022"

Now basically to salvage my entire ring set I would be using their Street-Moderate Turbo
setup. Which calculations say are:
Top Ring @ .020" - .022" & 2nd Ring @ .022"-.024"



Do you think its safe to use the Street-Moderate Turbo Setup from the Chart in the previous post?

Here is my current Setup
EJ257
100mm Bore
Wiseco Pistons
Manley Rods
Balanced Blue Printed
ARP Head Studs
BC Valve spring & Retainers
BC 280 Cam
ACL Main & Rod Bearings
Cosworth Oil Pump
Forced Performance Green turbo Possible moving to GT35-40 End of year
Will be planning on tuning on Meth and race fuel
Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2009, 10:34 PM   #6
mick_the_ginge
Citizen Mick
 
Member#: 27646
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
2003 Sleeved 2.5
Oil Dry Sump Goodness

Default

I do 22 thou top, 18 thou second (build boost between the two)

Cosworth does 15 thou top, 20-22 thou second

I've done 26/26 thou before as well (medium blowby with that setup)
mick_the_ginge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 01:08 PM   #7
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default

So wiseco was right?
Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2009, 07:29 PM   #8
RealStreet
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 205916
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: I SELL ENGINE PARTS!
Vehicle:
2003 Subaru WRX
in the 10's and the bends

Default

The second ring is always larger than the top. What ever charge gets past the first ring needs to get past the second to avoid flutter. Most manufactures have moved into putting accumulator grooves between the two rings to add some volume to avoid flutter.

What raises some real questions is how tight can we go from the spec that has been used for years that had cast iron blocks in mind. If you disassemble a new stock subi short you will find the rings butted. Clearly the bore grows away from the piston as the engine takes on heat. For those of you that have machined on a EJ block you have seen just how dynamic they are.

In the end you want them as tight as they can be without butting and/or trapping gas between the two.

Jay Meagher
RealStreet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 06:17 PM   #9
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default

so no one knows anything.. weird..
Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 08:02 PM   #10
RealStreet
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 205916
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: I SELL ENGINE PARTS!
Vehicle:
2003 Subaru WRX
in the 10's and the bends

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayaboosted View Post
so no one knows anything.. weird..
What part of my answer was unclear?
RealStreet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 08:48 PM   #11
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default

Really did you read the entire thread? I know the order and placement of my rings. I now need to know if the ring gap of

Top Ring @ .020" - .022" & 2nd Ring @ .022"-.024"

Would be an ok setup.

Or should I be calling Wiseco to send me some new rings on them?


Your post mentions nothing about spec.. Clarify?

Last edited by Hayaboosted; 04-13-2009 at 08:59 PM.
Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 08:59 PM   #12
mignotta9243
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 170836
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: yonkers NY
Vehicle:
2004 sti
wrb

Default

hello Hayaboosted !am doing wiseco piston to but i need to know the ring gap to ! tanks
mignotta9243 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 12:30 PM   #13
RealStreet
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 205916
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: I SELL ENGINE PARTS!
Vehicle:
2003 Subaru WRX
in the 10's and the bends

Default

Sorry I was trying to shead some light on the subject.

Your numbers of .020/.022 top ring and .022/.024 is fine. As long as the second is bigger than the first.

Jay Meagher
RealStreet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 03:38 PM   #14
WrXtaCy2003
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 85036
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2013 PBP sti ltd
05 LGT 35r 30psi..busted

Default

ive done 18 on top and 20 on 2nd for all my builds. Compression is consistently 170psi on all builds, no cylinder scoring either, no/minimal blowby. This is with 100mm wisecos, hybrid setup, stock sti headgasket.

DK
WrXtaCy2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 03:44 PM   #15
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default

Ok guys ur not reading the thread. The rings have already been filed in the wrong order because wise co screwed up.
Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 03:47 PM   #16
Bamofo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 159743
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Plymouth Ma
Vehicle:
07 STI Limited
TurboMike Tuned 2.35

Default

we do .018 on the top and .020 on the bottom for whiny people that dont like burning any oil due to blow by. and .020 on top .022 on bottom for normal people
Bamofo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 03:52 PM   #17
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WrXtaCy2003 View Post
ive done 18 on top and 20 on 2nd for all my builds. Compression is consistently 170psi on all builds, no cylinder scoring either, no/minimal blowby. This is with 100mm wisecos, hybrid setup, stock sti headgasket.

DK
. As said before the rings have already been filed making that not possible.
Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 04:16 PM   #18
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamofo View Post
we do .018 on the top and .020 on the bottom for whiny people that dont like burning any oil due to blow by. and .020 on top .022 on bottom for normal people
Thanks much help
Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 04:30 PM   #19
RealStreet
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 205916
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: I SELL ENGINE PARTS!
Vehicle:
2003 Subaru WRX
in the 10's and the bends

Default

If you don't want to buy a new ringset which is ($85) then you will need to go .022" on the top and .024" for the second.
RealStreet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 04:32 PM   #20
hustleshark206
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 182227
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: seattle, WA/ Jackson WY
Vehicle:
2000 MPS Built RS
1991 Leggy Turbo EJ22t

Default

Just have your builder re-gap the second rings to .024 and you should be good to go. Probably burn some oil as mentioned above.
hustleshark206 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 06:14 PM   #21
Hayaboosted
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60042
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Janesville, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI
Rotated T67 ALLABOUTSPEED

Default

I think im going to try and go 20 and 22
Hayaboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2009, 06:17 PM   #22
RealStreet
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 205916
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: I SELL ENGINE PARTS!
Vehicle:
2003 Subaru WRX
in the 10's and the bends

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayaboosted View Post
I think im going to try and go 20 and 22
You will be fine with that man.
RealStreet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need a flange welded. please help with specs bluesoob02 General Community 4 02-03-2010 08:06 PM
Need help ASAP with smoking engine problem! PLEASE HELP! DJS_02_WRX Newbies & FAQs 14 10-10-2009 09:59 AM
Hybrid engine builders please come... rs_two_five Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 36 06-29-2006 12:33 AM
Engine Builders, please help me out! tmarcel Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 82 10-28-2005 10:58 AM
Engineers/Architects, please help. I need you to figure out some angles for me Eric SS Off-Topic 43 05-17-2004 05:11 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.