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Old 04-11-2009, 05:17 PM   #1
Pohenegamook
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Outback Sport Help with diagnosing my engine

06 Outback sport, 38K miles, no 'real' mods, did do a snorkusectomy (i know, I know - done before williaty's write up though)

The other day on the highway I had to accelerate quickly and the engine sounded funny, ever since then whenever I'm over ~4.5K rpm it still sounds funny. Hard to explain....it goes from the normal Rrrrrrrrrrrr sound to a waaaaaaaaaaaa sound almost like its over revving. Sounds a little raspy, almost like a heat shield is rattling. Checked the shields and poked around but saw nothing obviously loose. Plenty of oil...last changed ~2600 miles ago.

So any guesses? What else should I check?

I do have a tactrix cable - what data would be good to record to determine if my engine is dying?

I'll try to record the sound later and host is somewhere but that usually doesn't help with daignosis.


Thanks in advance for any comments/thoughts.
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:00 AM   #2
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Bump for any late Easter chocolate induced random guesses?
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Old 04-13-2009, 02:18 AM   #3
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First, use your Tactrix cable to take a LearningView snapshot and post it here. That'll give us a good idea if the engine is pissed at something or if you've just got something loose somewhere.
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Old 04-13-2009, 08:31 PM   #4
Pohenegamook
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I was hoping you'd see this!
here it is:


Code:
CAL ID:E2VH111C
Description: 06 USDM Impreza 2.5i MT/AT
ECU ID:4312047106

IAM    0.7188

A/F Learning #1:
0 - <4.50    4.50 - <10.00    10.00 - <22.00    22.00+
-1.70        -8.30            -4.40             -3.30 

FLKC Table      0 - <0.68    0.68 - <0.85    0.85 - <1.00    1.00 - <1.20    1.20 - <1.40    1.40 - <1.60    1.60 - <1.80    1.80+
0 - <1300       0.00         0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00 
1300 - <1800    0.00         1.11            0.70            0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00 
1800 - <2400    0.00         1.09            2.18            0.70            0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00 
2400 - <2800    0.00         1.17            1.05            0.00            -0.70           0.00            0.00            0.00 
2800 - <3200    0.00         0.84            1.58            0.35            0.35            0.00            0.00            0.00 
3200 - <3600    0.00         0.00            0.00            -1.75           0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00 
3600 - <6400    0.00         -0.35           -0.92           -1.75           0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00 
6400+           0.00         0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00            0.00
I admittedly don't understand those numbers yet (I've barely cracked the spine on my "How to tune and modify Engine management systems")

But those negatives in red don't look good...thoughts?

Last edited by Pohenegamook; 04-13-2009 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:13 PM   #5
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OK, nothing there is bad enough that the engine is saying "OMG! I die nao!". That really looks pretty typical for a stock engine on a stock tune. There's definitely room for improvement, but nothing that screams problem.

My guess is that you do have something loose or leaking.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:36 PM   #6
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Hearing that from you gives me piece of mind....I appreciate it.

Just got the snorkus back on (holy MFn PITA) Figured 1) based on your thread I should and 2) if I had to take it in better to have it back to stock.

Discovered the plastic wheel well shroud(?) has a rip around the clip that holds it onto the fender so I'm wondering if that's the vibration. I'll have a to silicone it or something. I'll take it for a test drive once I get the wheel back on...had to stop to watch 24

I'll read up on Romraider site to figure out what those negatives indicate...we are switching back to summer gas around here so maybe the ECU is re-learning.

Thanks again (for this and all your posts!)
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:46 PM   #7
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You have negative values in two different areas.

First is under the "AF Learning #1" heading. Negative values there just mean the the ECU is having to revise its estimation of how much air is entering the engine downwards to match reality. For instance, you have an AFL#1A value of -1.70. If the ECU initially estimated that there was 10g/sec of air entering the engine, in reality there was only 8.30g/sec of air, so the ECU is correcting it's estimate by -1.70% to match reality. No big deal. If you're tuning, you want those all to be as small as possible, absolutely less than 5%, less than 3% if you can manage it, and AFL#1D pretty much needs to be 0.

Second is the Fine Learning Knock Correction table. This just means that the ECU has had to pull a little timing in those areas in the past and it's remembering it for the future. The values in your table aren't huge on their own. Frankly, on an NA car, if I saw -1.75 as the worst thing in the FLKC table, I'd probably be too lazy to fix it. However, those numbers work together with the IAM. Think of IAM as the chainsaw while FLKC is the scalpel. You have an IAM of .7188. Basically, that means that the ECU has pulled your timing advance down to 72% of your maximum timing right off the bat, then pulled another bit out of it where you see negative values in the FLKC table. Personally, I don't consider an engine with an IAM that low and negative learning to be acceptably safe. Subaru obviously disagrees. In fact, I've seen a number of NAs worse off than this. However, consider that Subaru wants you to make maximum power/efficiency until you're out of warranty. I want my engine to make maximum power and efficiency for 500,000 miles. There's a bit of a difference in safety factor to achieve those two goals.
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:56 AM   #8
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Nice! I didn't want to ask to be spoonfed the info, I knew it was out there I just needed to read it but thanks for the explanation.

Sounds much better but something is still vibrating at 4K+ rpms...sounds like the in the fender area. Grrr, I hate tracking down odd noises.
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
OK, nothing there is bad enough that the engine is saying "OMG! I die nao!".

yea....about that. I've discovered a flaw in the LearningView software.

It doesn't tell you when your valves are about to explode

Once I get my car back from the dealer I'll post all the drama but someone effed up (the dealer or Subaru) and my oil sling gasket they replaced about a month ago blew out and took a tooth off my timing belt. They are tearing it all down to see what else besides the valves have blown.


not ****ing cool, not cool at all.
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:55 PM   #10
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Damn, that sucks. Yeah, you should have checked the "psychic" option in LearningView.

So I guess your engine was saying "OMG! I die nao!", it just wasn't showing up as a timing or fueling error.

Sucks dude.
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:08 AM   #11
Pohenegamook
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they pretty much admitted it's either a flaw in the gasket or the install was wrong. it's only 35 K (I thought it was higher but I never pay attention )so it;s all under warranty.

They said they will stand by their work and deal with any future issues too...needless to say I will be getting things in writing and may contact SOA too. They are a good dealership so I don't think they will try to screw me but it's always good to have the I's dotted and T's crossed. Should be getting the car back Monday.
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