Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday May 4, 2016
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-12-2009, 07:20 PM   #1
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen [email protected]
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default Flat Foot Shifting and track times

My question is: What does Flat Foot Shifting can do to your track times?

I found and interesting thread about NLTS (no lift to shift) or Flat Foot shifting and some of they guys on EVOM swear that they can gain 1-3 tenths on 1/4, that seams like a lot to me . They said that FFS is nicer on the drive-train VS lift shifting. So what is your take? Who uses FFS?

I can wait to try FFS, as soon as I finish breaking in my tranny I will try it!

http://forums.evolutionm.net/drag-ra...-shifting.html
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 04-12-2009, 07:28 PM   #2
wrxwhat
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 87653
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
500 hp STI / 1100hp
Supra T / Stock G35

Default

I Flat foot shifted my buddies Evo 9 and literally ran the exact same time, 11.998, as I did lifting to shift.
wrxwhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 07:42 PM   #3
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen [email protected]
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxwhat View Post
I Flat foot shifted my buddies Evo 9 and literally ran the exact same time, 11.998, as I did lifting to shift.
was that the first time that you FFS? Like everything else in the world you need practice and you need to shift fast as f***. I am looking for people with experience, not for people that tried once .

TY
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 07:45 PM   #4
jays05
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 78165
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: SC
Vehicle:
05 STI 35r + e85

Default

It makes a huge difference in my car. I will say this - I think most tuners set up the FFS wrong, and if it's being nicer on the drivetrain, it is probably not too much faster than lift shifting. The FFS beats the hell out of the drivetrain in my car
jays05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:09 PM   #5
STi Mikey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114631
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TheShopCT / EFI LOGICS
Vehicle:
2009 GTR, 735whp
13' Benz, 15' WRX

Default

Hmm.. In all honesty, I feel that if shifting fast enough without it, the FFS will not do anything for you. I do not believe in it, and at our power levels launch control is not needed either.

The only thing that makes for big differences is what kind of ecu is being used. Shifting can be fine tuned and snappy on an AEM, Utec, ECT. The stock ecu with cobb is garbage for speed shifting, and only some cars can take a lightning quick shift without shift knocking on open ecu or ecutek. Certain shifting styles throw your cars load all over the place and the car freaks out. This is the problem I have had since the season started.
STi Mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:13 PM   #6
john 1badSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:
04 sti [email protected]
on e85@ 30psi--spinning

Default

you guys have to remember the bigger the turbo the more ffs helps,remember every time you lift to shift the turbo loses spool and on a big turbo it takes time for it to respool whereas with ffs you will only drop about 1 to 2 lbs of boost between shifts that means you stay under pretty much full power.And yes on a 35r car its probably worth a good 3 tenths and some mph.
john 1badSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:20 PM   #7
STi Mikey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114631
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TheShopCT / EFI LOGICS
Vehicle:
2009 GTR, 735whp
13' Benz, 15' WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
you guys have to remember the bigger the turbo the more ffs helps,remember every time you lift to shift the turbo loses spool and on a big turbo it takes time for it to respool whereas with ffs you will only drop about 1 to 2 lbs of boost between shifts that means you stay under pretty much full power.And yes on a 35r car its probably worth a good 3 tenths and some mph.
absolutely, thats why I stated to Juan at our power level (we both have vf series turbos). Of course it would be optimal for larger snails.
STi Mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:21 PM   #8
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen [email protected]
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
Hmm.. In all honesty, I feel that if shifting fast enough without it, the FFS will not do anything for you. I do not believe in it, and at our power levels launch control is not needed either.

The only thing that makes for big differences is what kind of ecu is being used. Shifting can be fine tuned and snappy on an AEM, Utec, ECT. The stock ecu with cobb is garbage for speed shifting, and only some cars can take a lightning quick shift without shift knocking on open ecu or ecutek. Certain shifting styles throw your cars load all over the place and the car freaks out. This is the problem I have had since the season started.
I disagree, FFS keeps the turbo spooling, and it depends on the tuner.

Think about it?

Lift Shifting
1- Gas pedal out
2- Clutch in
3- Clutch out
4- Gas pedal in

FFS
1- Clutch in
2- Clutch out

So you have less footing (salsa term), and you have less change to mess up. ALso, you cut your shifting technique by a half , so it should take half the time to shift???

Check this video out, you can see how he holds the boost with the FFS between shifts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9N7liGEC-k
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:25 PM   #9
rice_rocket88
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 113801
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: MA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
Red

Default

Awesome youtube link.. I was just going to say it. When I did this mod to my Evo8 I gained a little bit of time.. although I was used to ninja shifting with the stock turbo, it does keep your boost up for sure!
rice_rocket88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:31 PM   #10
STi Mikey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114631
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TheShopCT / EFI LOGICS
Vehicle:
2009 GTR, 735whp
13' Benz, 15' WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
I disagree, FFS keeps the turbo spooling, and it depends on the tuner.

Think about it?

Lift Shifting
1- Gas pedal out
2- Clutch in
3- Clutch out
4- Gas pedal in

FFS
1- Clutch in
2- Clutch out

So you have less footing (salsa term), and you have less change to mess up. ALso, you cut your shifting technique by a half , so it should take half the time to shift???

Check this video out, you can see how he holds the boost with the FFS between shifts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9N7liGEC-k
I know this, but our turbos are small. If you hit the gear quick enough you wont fall out of any boost. Come take a ride in my car, then take a ride in someone else's with FFS and the same set-up, we'll see what you think then.

The video was a good comparo, but, he seemed to hit full boost around 5500-6000, obviously a large turbo. And in all honesty who ever was driving was shifting extremely slow, but just MHO. If I ever up the snail size, Ill switch over to the FFS, but def not gonna bother with a vf turbo.

Last edited by STi Mikey; 04-12-2009 at 08:48 PM.
STi Mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:35 PM   #11
emo_tactical9
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135814
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Owensboro, KY
Vehicle:
95 240sx SE
95 200sx SE-R - 84 200sx

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
I disagree, FFS keeps the turbo spooling, and it depends on the tuner.

Think about it?

Lift Shifting
1- Gas pedal out
2- Clutch in
3- Clutch out
4- Gas pedal in

FFS
1- Clutch in
2- Clutch out

So you have less footing (salsa term), and you have less change to mess up. ALso, you cut your shifting technique by a half , so it should take half the time to shift???

Check this video out, you can see how he holds the boost with the FFS between shifts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9N7liGEC-k
Do you only have one foot?
emo_tactical9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:36 PM   #12
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen [email protected]
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
I know this, but our turbos are small. If you hit the gear quick enough you wont fall out of any boost. Come take a ride in my car, then take a ride in someone else's with FFS and the same set-up, we'll see what you think then.
true but you are not human, and I don't have your skills
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:37 PM   #13
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen [email protected]
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emo_tactical9 View Post
Do you only have one foot?
hahahha emo thanks for the awesome contribution
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:51 PM   #14
wrxwhat
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 87653
Join Date: May 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Long Island NY
Vehicle:
500 hp STI / 1100hp
Supra T / Stock G35

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
was that the first time that you FFS? Like everything else in the world you need practice and you need to shift fast as f***. I am looking for people with experience, not for people that tried once .

TY
No.. I've flat foot shifted every car i've driven competitively, and it never makes any noticeable difference, excluding cars with dox boxes, compared to me lifting when shifting.
wrxwhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 08:55 PM   #15
TopEndPull
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126112
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston,Texas
Vehicle:
93.5 Toyota Supra
Red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
you guys have to remember the bigger the turbo the more ffs helps,remember every time you lift to shift the turbo loses spool and on a big turbo it takes time for it to respool whereas with ffs you will only drop about 1 to 2 lbs of boost between shifts that means you stay under pretty much full power.And yes on a 35r car its probably worth a good 3 tenths and some mph.
I noticed this with my gt35r and 5spd ppg'd gears that going from 3rd to 4th respool was forever and because 4th is so long in the 06+ wrx's. i think ffs would benefit those with a bigger turbo like you said, therefore i will be picking this patch up!

Last edited by TopEndPull; 04-12-2009 at 10:11 PM.
TopEndPull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 09:01 PM   #16
john 1badSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:
04 sti [email protected]
on e85@ 30psi--spinning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopEndPull View Post
I noticed this with my gt35r and 5spd ppd'd gears that going from 3rd to 4th respool was forever and because 4th is so long in the 06+ wrx's. i think ffs would benefit those with a bigger turbo like you said, therefore i will be picking this patch up!
I can definitely tell you that ffs helped me to run the times that I have run and I can also shift faster than **** which is needed in a car with an early 6spd.
john 1badSTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 09:05 PM   #17
GeneralTJI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152680
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: EVO 8 built LR2.0
Default

I think you see more gains with FFS on cars with big turbos.... On mine, If I didn't shift very fast, there was just a touch of lag between gears.. had to wail them pretty fast to keep everything zinging.. with FFS is nice because sometimes I like to take the 2-3 just a little slower than any other shift and I won't drop boost etc.
GeneralTJI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 09:46 PM   #18
godforbid67
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 137168
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: ummm..... Andrewtech ftmfw!
Vehicle:
06 Built SGM WRX
35r, PPG, 280's, PSS9.

Default

like stated, it really only benefits with big turbos.
godforbid67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 10:19 PM   #19
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen [email protected]
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by godforbid67 View Post
like stated, it really only benefits with big turbos.
I disagree, I think it can help bad drivers a lot
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 10:21 PM   #20
vinnyd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 148219
Join Date: May 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: ellicott city, md
Vehicle:
2013 Mazdaspeed 3
Liquid Silver

Default

what do you define as big. 20g, dom3, green, gt52 dom4 or are you referring to rotated set ups only?
vinnyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 10:30 PM   #21
STi Mikey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114631
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: TheShopCT / EFI LOGICS
Vehicle:
2009 GTR, 735whp
13' Benz, 15' WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnyd View Post
what do you define as big. 20g, dom3, green, gt52 dom4 or are you referring to rotated set ups only?
I think on a 2.5 i would do FFS starting with a 20g, just not a vf series turbo. I guess if you shift hella slow it could help on a stock turbo. But Juan, you have a built trans now, you can practice almost worry free.
STi Mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 10:38 PM   #22
vinnyd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 148219
Join Date: May 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: ellicott city, md
Vehicle:
2013 Mazdaspeed 3
Liquid Silver

Default

I have a ppg straight cut 1-4 and a dom4, you think this would benefit me?
vinnyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 10:43 PM   #23
godforbid67
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 137168
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: ummm..... Andrewtech ftmfw!
Vehicle:
06 Built SGM WRX
35r, PPG, 280's, PSS9.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
I think on a 2.5 i would do FFS starting with a 20g, just not a vf series turbo. I guess if you shift hella slow it could help on a stock turbo. But Juan, you have a built trans now, you can practice almost worry free.
i would agree, 20g and up.
im going to be honest its tricky to learn, especially when you have gone to a big turbo from a smaller one (can easily get flustered or excited with the new found power). after some time though its easy. i mean its obviously pretty simple, it is just so instinctual to pop your foot up.
the only thing i dont like about it, is when your not trying to go balls out and shift without keeping your foot down it bogs and feels weird.
godforbid67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2009, 10:43 PM   #24
godforbid67
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 137168
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: ummm..... Andrewtech ftmfw!
Vehicle:
06 Built SGM WRX
35r, PPG, 280's, PSS9.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnyd View Post
I have a ppg straight cut 1-4 and a dom4, you think this would benefit me?
indeed. i mean very very indeed, haha.
godforbid67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2009, 12:53 AM   #25
pekoso1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 168988
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default

I have an 04 Sti and before that I had a Civic Si and I do FFS. FFS can help you win a race and it will give better time at the 1/4 mile the trick at the track with awd cars is your launch reaction and your 60ft needs to be real good so you can tell the difference in time.

Another thing that FFS has help me is when I'm racing faster cars, I am only putting 380 whp and 405 tq on 110, and I raced an Evo 8 with over 500whp driver did not FFS and my FFS help me to keep up 1,2,3 after that the Evo spank me real bad... So yeah I like it and I think it does help.

This is were i learn how to FFS in Puerto Rico... This is how is done...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihydw...eature=related

Last edited by pekoso1; 04-13-2009 at 01:09 AM.
pekoso1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Launch Control and flat foot shifting explained BCT182 AccessPort 36 05-30-2015 12:29 PM
flat foot shifting and launch control safe? djc1827 Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 18 09-10-2010 10:14 PM
08 launch control and flat foot shifting 08Pearlhatch AccessPort 1 07-09-2008 08:13 PM
Accessport Launch Control and Flat Foot Shifting powerlabs AccessPort 31 09-15-2007 03:33 PM
boost spikes with utec and flat-foot shifting ride5000 Engine Management & Tuning 1 07-26-2004 10:55 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2016 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2016, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.