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Old 04-13-2009, 08:49 PM   #1
2superblus
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Default The SCCA Milwaukee Region Inaugural National Street Tire Challenge




The SCCA Milwaukee Region Inaugural
National Street Tire Challenge


Brought to you by:
Bridgestone Motorsport

Saturday September 12, 2009


The Milwaukee Region will be running a special Sports Car Club of America santioned event open only to cars running street tires. The purpose is to provide a unique event where competition for top index honors is open exclusively to those running street tires, and show support to those people who arrive and drive on their street tires. The event will be held in Milwaukee, WI at Miller Park.

* Street Tires are defined as tires which have a minimum tread wear rating of 140.
Classes
Each car will receive a multiplier base on the RTP/PAX Index based the current SCCA Solo Rulebook (excluding the Street Touring classes). Vehicles will be divided into one of the three competition classes offered at this event; FWD (front wheel drive), AWD (All wheel drive), or RWD (rear wheel driving). Final positions in class will be determined by multipling your top time of the day by your RTP/PAX index, fastest time winning.
Examples of Car Classification:
If you are running a stock 2007 Corvette Z06 (which is classed in SS) you would be running in the RWD class with a SS index multiplier.

If you are driving a 1993 Honda Civic prepped to Street Prepared rules and normally run in FSP you will be racing in FWD with a FSP index multiplier.

If you normally drive your modified Subura WRX STi in Street Touring Ultra, you will have to find the appropriate Street Prepared class which your car would run, in this case BSP since the Street Touring classes are not allowed to be used as multipliers, and you will race in AWD with a BSP index multiplier.

Eligible Participants
The event is open to everyone running on Street Tires. As with all Milwaukee Region events, SCCA membership is required. A special weekend membership is available for onsite non-members. As a bonus, there is a regular Milwaukee Region event scheduled on Sunday the 13th.

Entry Fees:
$40 Online Pre-Registration (SCCA Members Only
http://register.scca-milwaukee.org/ )
$45 Onsite Annual SCCA Members
$55 Onsite Non-Members


All entrants will receive an event t-shirt to show off to all of your friends!

Logistics:
The event will be run just like all Milwaukee Region events, meaning you can expect a great course design on one of the premier sites, smooth operations, and a fun day. The number of runs will be determined by the event attendance, but we strive for a total of 6 runs (3 morning and 3 afternoon).

Trophies
We will award trophies as per the SCCA rule book, with special trophies to the top finishers in FWD, AWD, and RWD classes, and to the competitor who has the fastest RTP/PAX index time.

Food:
As with all Milwaukee Region events in 2009, lunch will be available on-site for purchase from Cousins Subs.


Hit me up if you have any questions.

Bart
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Last edited by 2superblus; 04-14-2009 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:59 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2superblus View Post
The purpose is to provide a unique event where competition for top index honors is open exclusively to those running street tires, and show support to those people who arrive and drive on their street tires.
So, would we have to drive there on whatever tires we'd race with?

(this is the day after nationals, and it's quasi on the way back...)

And if I understand this right, if you have an STX WRX, you can crank up the boost and run wider wheels and tires because you're going to run against the ESP index anyway?

thanks,
john
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:03 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
So, would we have to drive there on whatever tires we'd race with?

(this is the day after nationals, and it's quasi on the way back...)

And if I understand this right, if you have an STX WRX, you can crank up the boost and run wider wheels and tires because you're going to run against the ESP index anyway?

thanks,
john
Or bring a wrx prepped for ESP and put it on big street tires and run against stx prepped wrx's on street tires?
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:06 AM   #4
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Or bring a wrx prepped for ESP and put it on big street tires and run against stx prepped wrx's on street tires?






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Old 04-14-2009, 09:15 AM   #5
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You guys have it absolutely correct! It is an event that is street tire only minimum tread wear rating of 140 is your main restriction. Otherwise your only other restrictions are the rules per your class. And yes someone could bring a ESP prepped WRX and run big wide meaty Street tires.

Bart


This is geared to be a fun competitive event.
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:03 PM   #6
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Flyers up! Spread the word if you can.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:31 PM   #7
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That's a nice looking flyer.

It's going to be a great time with some great competition so register early people.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:53 PM   #8
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This is on my birthday. Might make for a fun day.

Think I am going to see how competive I am in my DS AWD drive class and go from there this year.

Since bridgestone is the sponcer can they hook us up with some tires at the end of the year. LOL
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:41 PM   #9
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Even though I am at the bottom of Florida, I think I will try to make this event.

I have been pushing for a street tire class for the RWD (2-seater) cars (BS,AS,SS etc) for years!

Last edited by Z1NONLY; 04-17-2009 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:22 PM   #10
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We would love to have you up here for the event. Last year a G35 took the overall top spot in our RWD street tire class with the soft FS index.
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:32 PM   #11
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It was nice to see all of the Subies at the driver's school today. Hopefully we'll be able to get a bunch of them at the NSTC to show up the FWD & RWD people.
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Old 04-19-2009, 12:21 AM   #12
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Agreed.

Had a lot of fun today with my WRX. Once I started to get down how to drive it. Thanks Mike for all your help.
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSTON View Post
That's a nice looking flyer.

It's going to be a great time with some great competition so register early people.
Done!
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Old 04-26-2009, 10:34 AM   #14
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I'm signed up!
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:35 PM   #15
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Sweet.
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:46 PM   #16
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I can't wait to meet everyone coming from out of town!
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:57 AM   #17
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I hope that more regions begin to host similar, large street tire events. I imagine that the tire companies would like to see it as well. I am sure that this will bring out lots great drivers. I might make the drive from Florida like my brother (Z1NONLY), but I already plan on being in Lincoln. I just don't know how great my desire to participate will be (after Nationals) compared to my desire to just get home to Florida. My brother is signed up and ready to go now. He is very underprepped for a BSP 350z (only konis, springs and sway bars), but he will do quite well. At last year's Florida State Championship, they had a trial run of an STU2 class, and it turned out to being tied as the largest class. The cars were many S2000s (some prepped for BSP and some stock), a Boxster (stock), my brother's 350z (which won the class), and a couple of others cars that were stock, but never had a class to run in on street tires. All of the STU2 cars, including my brother Mike, would not have participated if not for the class.

I really believe that this is a super event! I will tell everyone I can about it.
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Old 04-27-2009, 02:58 PM   #18
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This format is ok for a regional class, but I dunno about an event built around it.

Think about it..

The folks that already have the perfect tires are rendered instantly uncompetitive (ST cars run on their respective SP indexes?)

The folks already prepped for their Stock or SP class are often hit and miss on whether they just so happen to have a set of the proper tires around (how many Stock or SP cars have the latest ST tires in their optimal Stock or SP sizes as well as their normal R-comps?)...
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:09 PM   #19
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Good points Splash, many of which they hope to address in the future (figuring out what to do with ST cars, as well as classing). But I would argue that you post contradicted itself by stating that ST cars are instantly uncompetitive though dialed in to the correct tires, and that the Stock and SP cars are probably not on the correct tires. I don't like to make drastic assumptions, but I imagine that a solid ST car will do quite well against the competition even with the SP PAX. At the regions I have competed in, the drivers who refuse to run r-comps usually are on the latest ST tires. This event is for those drivers. I do believe it will be successful.
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Old 04-27-2009, 06:46 PM   #20
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Yeah, arguably, a fully prepped ESP car is going to be giving something up because they are going to be running way more spring rate than would be optimal for a street tire. But whatever. It should be fun, which is all I really care about (especially if I suck at Nationals)

john
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:11 PM   #21
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Well, for example...

An STS Miata is purposely setup with massively grippier pads in the rear because street tires don't grip as well, and has the added effect of not transferring the weight to the front. A CSP Miata has killer brakes up front and MUCH stiffer springs because such big Hoosiers generate stupid amounts of grip, which almost can stand the car on it's nose. You can prolly imagine the front-wheel-locking-fest that will happen when you put street tires (much smaller ones at that) on a car setup for CSP tires... Never mind that you are still depending on folks with SP cars to already have a set of suitable ST tires to use for this event.

On the flip side, The STS Miata, though properly setup for it's 205/225 street tires, will be on a CSP index that is worse than BSP's index, which is where STU cars go. Sound fair?

Likewise, for my STU Subie, I can either run with BSP index (and give away 100hp and a few inches of tire width, unless I wanted to buy special tires for this event alone) and get stomped, or I could have a BSP car on a horrific BSP index, yet run smaller, much less grippy tires, making much of my setup useless, and get stomped...

Either way, it's like seeing who can win despite being handicapped, which is about as close to the automotive equivalent of the special olympics as you can get.

The only cars that stand a chance are ones where the setup doesn't change just because you changed tires, or such changes are super easy to make. This equals Stock-class cars.

Now, if the host region has a long-standing PAX class for street tires on everything other than ST cars, then you probably also have folks who have run it for a while and have set themselves up for it. The advantage will go to these folks. Like I said, it's great for a regional class... It'll probably be great as far as fun events go as well. Maybe not so much for competitors... IMO, of course...

Last edited by Splash; 04-27-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:57 PM   #22
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http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Solo/oldres.html
^ past results

If you look at the past results from our region you will notice that the current STU National Champion run with us. Now take his time and give him a BSP index and see how much he falls. Not too much, he would still be one of the fastest guys on street tires. I think if you look at some result you will be suprised how competitive the ST classes will be with a SP index.

I also have to put it out there that this event was born from all of us who love to autocross on street tires that live up here in the Milwaukee/Chicago area. Our regions have a very Large amount of people who run Stock/SP/Mod cars in our Non-SCCA street tire classes, prepped with the fact that they are on street tires. We came up with this event to be fun, competitive and to give back to everyone who supports our regions that run our Non-SCCA street tire classes, an event where they can be competitive overall and not get stomped by all the players that can afford to run R-comps.


For all who aren't familiar with Miller Park where the event is taking place, we have a big lot up here and most courses are 50-60 seconds driving an STU STI at the top of 2nd and sometimes shifting to 3rd.

Take a look at the lot.
Miller Parks parking lot due East
you will see the tire marks
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:29 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2superblus View Post
http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Solo/oldres.html
^ past results

If you look at the past results from our region you will notice that the current STU National Champion run with us. Now take his time and give him a BSP index and see how much he falls. Not too much, he would still be one of the fastest guys on street tires. I think if you look at some result you will be suprised how competitive the ST classes will be with a SP index.

I also have to put it out there that this event was born from all of us who love to autocross on street tires that live up here in the Milwaukee/Chicago area. Our regions have a very Large amount of people who run Stock/SP/Mod cars in our Non-SCCA street tire classes, prepped with the fact that they are on street tires. We came up with this event to be fun, competitive and to give back to everyone who supports our regions that run our Non-SCCA street tire classes, an event where they can be competitive overall and not get stomped by all the players that can afford to run R-comps.


For all who aren't familiar with Miller Park where the event is taking place, we have a big lot up here and most courses are 50-60 seconds driving an STU STI at the top of 2nd and sometimes shifting to 3rd.

Take a look at the lot.
Miller Parks parking lot due East
you will see the tire marks
I really don't think ST people, at least STU, will be at that much of a disadvantage. Like others have mentioned, our cars are set up to run on street tires and that more than makes up for any disadvantage we have not running larger tires. Like Bart mentioned, I would have done very well in our A class last Milwaukee event. I would have won it by 1.3 seconds if you take my STU time and use the BSP index. STU people could easily run a high boost map for a horsepower boost as well.

-Colin
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:00 AM   #24
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Colin, your point about the high boost was one that I would make as well. STX and STU cars that usually switch to their STU tune or Stock tune, should not mind the playing in BSP for a change. Of course, the BSP cars are likely to have better racing tunes (with higher octane), than our street tunes, but so what. Most ST guys look forward to racing whoever and whatever is on street tires. Especially against equivalent drivetrain configurations (those fwd hondas are often humbling). Considering these folks are used to street tires, the competition should be good. Still, the fact that Colin would have won by 1.3 with a BSP pax should remind everyone that it is about the driver.

But Splash, you are correct that alot of the focus of this event is on the stock class drivers that don't quite understand what is so "Stock" about r-comps. And also it geared towards most >90% of the other classes that wish to race on what they drove up on. The fact that four classes are hindered shows that there is room for improvement, but that is the case with any PAX based event. As an STU driver, I still hope to make it to the event. With people pointing out how slim his chances are, I am sure that Colin would love to see if he could win the AWD class with the BSP pax. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a well-prepped STX BMW won the RWD class with the DSP pax.
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Old 04-28-2009, 10:19 AM   #25
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I see the event having nothing to do with current 'National" scca classing and is just using it as a reference as there is no national classing for stock/sp classes on street tires.

I see it more as a anti-national national. It's also a marketing device, I guess. Which is all fine and good, and it's just for fun anyways.......right.

I applaude the Milwaukee region for putting it together, I honestly do. They are serving their customer base very well.

I could really care less about stock classes and why there's r-comps controversy.

I know I'd be chomping at the bit to throw that high boost map on my STX car. I'd be looking forward to barely being able to keep the car straight with my extra 7hp all on the right side of the graph........ Man that tdo4 only works better the more psi you throw at it.

I guess what I'm thinking is no matter what the rules are it's still a form of motorsports.........people will always push and morph the rules. Either through creativity or $, or both.

my .02
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