Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday December 19, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports > Autocross

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-15-2009, 01:40 PM   #26
CGMDan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 127883
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: PDX
Vehicle:
'09 C63 AMG '99RSTi
'05 CGM STi - RIP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by generalee69 View Post
NW Region is what I was referring to. OR region is strong so is Conference.

NW region race is on it's a$$, NW region auto-x on the other hand is thriving. The difference is the people involved.

NWR race is a joke. But I think we've talked about that before. And your right, it is all about the people involved.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
CGMDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 03:56 PM   #27
generalee69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 106470
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Kent WA
Vehicle:
2004 GT-1 ICSCC #9
www.ClintonRacing.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMDan View Post
NWR race is a joke. But I think we've talked about that before. And your right, it is all about the people involved.
That's what happens when the people in charge have NEVER DRIVEN A RACECAR before! They been volunteers and workers for forever!
generalee69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 08:53 PM   #28
CGMDan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 127883
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: PDX
Vehicle:
'09 C63 AMG '99RSTi
'05 CGM STi - RIP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by generalee69 View Post
That's what happens when the people in charge have NEVER DRIVEN A RACECAR before! They been volunteers and workers for forever!
The sad thing is, in order to be a steward, you have to have been a driver.
CGMDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 09:17 PM   #29
flyboymike
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83765
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: The modern Yellow Peril
Vehicle:
2005 WRX wagon
WR Blue

Default

I definitely want to get into HPDE's at some point. Three or four twenty minute sessions instead of three or four runs sounds luxurious.
flyboymike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2009, 10:58 PM   #30
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: To infinity
Vehicle:
and beyond!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboymike View Post
I definitely want to get into HPDE's at some point. Three or four twenty minute sessions instead of three or four runs sounds luxurious.
It was a very welcome change of pace! The only problem was the crowded track. I'm not used to having to slow down for cars in front of me.
delongedoug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:17 AM   #31
elirentz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70082
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: charleston, sc
Vehicle:
2005 sti, 02 s2000
88 944 beater

Default

For me, I started out doing autox for a few years then started doing track days, having the prior experience helped me learn car control but I and my instructor found that I was cutting off corners and not tracking out all the way. My instructor said " you're an autoxer aren't you" right away.
elirentz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2009, 10:22 AM   #32
mav1c
Hoodbridge!
Moderator
 
Member#: 560
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Vehicle:
2006 STi, '11 A4
Crystal Gray, Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisan View Post
I did hundreds of auto-x before moving to HPDE and eventually to road racing. I found AX was both good and bad. More good than bad in that you are used to the environment (Heat, helmet, car control, car prep, etc). The only downside is that AX people are generally not nearly as smooth as a pure Road Course person in the begining, they need to fight the urge to crank the wheel etc.

Overall any track time be it Autox or Road Course is good track time.

-mike
Totally agree. Have had a few first time students that were experienced autocrossers that actually took more work than a complete newbie. As you said, they really had to learn to smooth things out. The other issue I ran into was overconfidence. Because they had been driving a car hard for years, and maybe even done very well in their class, they figured they were already fast on the track. It wasn't in an arrogant way, just the experience. The combination of abrupt turn-in and too much speed made things interesting a few times.

The other thing about driving fast on a track is that it takes more...ummm...how to I put this nicely...guts.
mav1c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2009, 03:44 PM   #33
jimmi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172959
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Macedonia, Ohio
Vehicle:
2008 NBP Legacy
08 EVO XGSR, 01 EclipseGT

Default

Most people who can drive well can adapt to most anything. I ran national level karts all the way to lower open wheel series on everything from roadcourses to ovals. When I was racing all the time, I could pretty quickely aclimate to different cars etc. Did 1 autocross and the only adjustment I thought was tough was visualizing an imaginary track. The quick change in direction was no big deal compared with most kart tracks and the speeds were pretty low so, was less nervous about making mistakes (was not my car either so...). I think most reasonably good roadracers should be able to convert. Your better autox guy probably can also once they are used to the speed.
jimmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 02:26 PM   #34
solo-x
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 37624
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Doesn't drive a scooby....
Default

ok everyone, put your dicks away.

The primary skill needed in auto-x is the ability to rapidly memorize a course and learn to drive it fast in 3 runs without getting any practice time on the course. This skill is not needed in road racing, but without it you'll suck as an autocrosser. All the other driving skills (save for racecraft and traffic management) are taught in Solo. So, to recap, the #1 needed skill for Solo is not necessary for roadracing, and is why a roadracer that turns autocrosser doesn't excel at auto-x right away.

And don't mock the difficulty of learning race craft and traffic management. Many an autocrosser can turn a decent lap on track in short order (that rapid course memorization skill is to credit for that), but not all learn race craft quickly. Some not at all, and some have some bad auto-x habits (as in, they are bad for autocross too, but nobody ever got them to break the habit) that they have to unlearn as well.

Now, knock it off with the high horse "x is better then y" BS. It's definitely a 2-way street with that crap, and it's why the roadrace/auto-x rift persists. Both sides need to learn how to respect what the other group is doing, recognize that neither is better and stop being so juvenile.
solo-x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2009, 04:01 PM   #35
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 That's *Sir*
Weinerlicks of Douche 2u.

Default

+1, solo-x

Quote:
Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
Both are different.. but I haven't really personally seen a auto x er chew up a track.. usually i see that they're very scared of turns above 60 mph.
Here's an autocrosser setting the 2nd fastest time of the day:

Faster cars at an autocross can easily exceed 80mph on open courses. It takes guts to push a car to it's limits anywhere.

Good drivers are good drivers wherever they are. I've heard rumors of top tier professional race drivers setting FTD in underprepped cars during their first autocross. As most of us know, there's much more to fast driving than a subset of skills learned in any single sport.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 12:06 AM   #36
subie06
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135376
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
05 STI
Blue

Default

I also did auto xing for a couple of years before i ever did a track day. When i finally got on the road course it felt so easy and wide open. It was like someone drew out the lines for me. I can say that i adapted pretty fast.

Coming up to my first track day a friend of mind that had participated in a hand full of track days before me said "your going to be all over the place and going slow and scared". He also doesn't like auto xing. Thinks it is boring and slow. Anyway I had an open mind and told him i don't think so, but we'll see. So the day came, he was driving his moderately modded 04 wrx wagon and i had my pretty new completely stock 06 wrx. We went on to the track at slightly different times. But after a couple laps of having a blast and setting target on every car in front of me, i start catching up to my friend. And a short time later I was almost rubbing paint with him until he pointed me by.LOL He told me that he was using everything he had,while i was just as relaxed as i was when i sitting off the track(thanks to auto x).He also never did another track day after that and said that it was just to expensive.Shortly after he bought a boat.. I still go to HPDE's when i can and still auto x every event i can.
subie06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 12:20 AM   #37
subie06
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135376
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
05 STI
Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
Both are different.. but I haven't really personally seen a auto x er chew up a track.. usually i see that they're very scared of turns above 60 mph.
That's probably true for some. I participated in my first time attack at subiefest 2008 in street class and first time at willow springs.

At first I was braking in to turn 8 at first. While resting between sessions I over heard someone saying that they were going in to turn 8 at about 120. I was thinking to myself "Are you serious!" But by the end of the second day I was diving in to turn 8 at about 115 and barely lifing. I set the fastest time in street during qualifying, and took second place to russ warr (driving the crawford stock 08 sti) in the final by .03 of a second. Bitter sweet.Still happy with my place for my first time attack.
subie06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 09:52 AM   #38
dwx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8343
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:
2005 2012 Jeep
2013 DGM BRZ

Default

IMHO good drivers are good drivers, and I think like Randy said, you'll notice the really good autocross guys also make really good track guys.

Peter Cunningham and Jason Saini are two guys that started autocrossing in my area, won national championships, and are incredibly successful road racers.

It's funny Peter Cunningham came out in his NSX (terrible autox car) a couple years ago and ended up in Colin Fiedler's STS Civic. I believe he beat Colin's best run on his first run in the car...after not really having autocrossed in years.
dwx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 11:25 AM   #39
elirentz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70082
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: charleston, sc
Vehicle:
2005 sti, 02 s2000
88 944 beater

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwx View Post
IMHO good drivers are good drivers
Very true. There may be a few habits (i.e. steering input smoothness) that take a run or lap or two to re acclimate to the situation but a good river should be able to adjust and drive at the limit in any situation.
elirentz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2009, 09:02 PM   #40
A1337STI
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 116806
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Reno, NV
Vehicle:
05 STI & 93 RS 2.5
WRB

Default

I think the statement is just barley true.

You do need to rapidly memorize course (walk it once) and pick out the best line, and making adjustments with only 3-6 laps. So there is that...

Also some of the "road racers" people that are refered to by this saying, are really just unclassed Hot Lappers / PDX guys in very fast cars. drive a very fast car to 80% of its ability and you pass a lot of people on a track and you think you are fast. show up and get classed @ autocross and get whooped in PAX. this creates the illusion for some autoXers that they are faster then "good track drivers"

IMNSHO Its more autoXers finding comparisons to back up this notion, than any real apples to apples comparisons. You can not become the best at a given sport, by only cross training in other sports.

I see a similar dichotomy between rally cross and full stage rally. But no one says the same thing. it seems RallyXers assume full stage guys should be faster. But i've personally seen examples where that isn't true.

Having done Autocross, rally cross, PDX , Time trials and Full stage rally I have only heard this comparison from my pavement pounding friends whose current situation seems like they will never go to road racing.

My dirt drifting friends mostly seem to think they will end up in full stage, even if their current situation seems to say that's impossible.

Everyone saying you need bigger balls to take 120 mph Track sweeper compared to a 55 mph autoX sweeper is correct. (same for full stage rally with a huge cliff on the side of you, versus going around Cones at a rallyX) .

if you look at learning by the minute, you will learn at a faster rate autoXing.
if you look at by the day , you probably learn more 1 day at a time trial.
A1337STI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Auto-X - Road Course Paranoia purduephigam Motorsports 26 02-04-2009 12:06 PM
Track Day Road Trip HARRIS HILL ROAD COURSE Andres van der Dys Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 27 12-13-2008 03:53 AM
NM: Road Course/ Auto-x/ Drift Events! Sandia Motor Speedway eyehate South West Impreza Club Forum -- SWIC 10 01-30-2008 07:39 PM
Sunday SCCA auto-x at TMS road course rt4me Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 5 10-11-2006 12:25 PM
Which road course has the Arch? Porter Motorsports 9 05-09-2001 08:40 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.