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Old 04-16-2009, 11:05 PM   #1
PitwrkzZ1
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Default Battery Relocation

So I want to relocate the battery of my 02 WRX to the trunk. I would like to mount it behind the passenger's side rear seat, but theer seems to be some sort of hatch or somthing there...anyone know what that might be? Also, is there an accepted or normal place were people relocate the battery?
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:18 PM   #2
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That hatch is for your fuel pump. Most people who stick it in the trunk probably stick it in the right rear corner (passenger side). Mine's in the passenger compartment behind the passenger seat, in a sealed box with vent. I wanted it as low and as centered in the car as possible. I have a rollbar so, nobody can use the rear seats anyway.

The one thing to remember is when the battery is charging, it's giving off hydrogen gas. That's one reason they're supposed to be in sealed boxes. Even the sealed lead acids like the Braile give off hydrogen gas. My Odyssey specifically warns me about the gas.
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
That hatch is for your fuel pump. Most people who stick it in the trunk probably stick it in the right rear corner (passenger side). Mine's in the passenger compartment behind the passenger seat, in a sealed box with vent. I wanted it as low and as centered in the car as possible. I have a rollbar so, nobody can use the rear seats anyway.

The one thing to remember is when the battery is charging, it's giving off hydrogen gas. That's one reason they're supposed to be in sealed boxes. Even the sealed lead acids like the Braile give off hydrogen gas. My Odyssey specifically warns me about the gas.
Hindensubie would not be good.
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:59 AM   #4
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That's why you're supposed to put the negative clamp on the chassis (away from the battery) when jump-starting.

-Mike
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Old 04-17-2009, 04:29 AM   #5
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I just did this research, as I wanted to throw it in the trunk

you run 1 gauge wire from the front to the rear, to compensate the losses, ground it there in the chasis and you have to use sealed type battery, like optima...

and because optimas are $$$ and that cable ain't cheap too, I am too broke now to do this mod
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:50 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
That hatch is for your fuel pump. Most people who stick it in the trunk probably stick it in the right rear corner (passenger side). Mine's in the passenger compartment behind the passenger seat, in a sealed box with vent. I wanted it as low and as centered in the car as possible. I have a rollbar so, nobody can use the rear seats anyway.

The one thing to remember is when the battery is charging, it's giving off hydrogen gas. That's one reason they're supposed to be in sealed boxes. Even the sealed lead acids like the Braile give off hydrogen gas. My Odyssey specifically warns me about the gas.
Pics? I'm buying the PC680 (Deka version actually) and stashing it under the passenger seat. When I asked about gasses etc some NASIOC experts told me it was crap. I'd be interested to see how you vented it. Thanks.

Chris.
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:28 AM   #7
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look for unkle scotty's posts re this, he runs this setup
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:05 AM   #8
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look for unkle scotty's posts re this, he runs this setup
Yeah, that's where I got the info about no gasses. I don't think he's posted any photos either.

Chris.
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:32 AM   #9
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For what it's worth, I'm selling a brand new PC680 for cheap. There's nothing wrong with it - it's just an extra: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1735439

I've got it mounted in my right rear corner. I trimmed a bit of the interior panel back to push it as far into the corner as possible. Pics: http://www.jenandneil.com/v/cars/subaru_battery/

Wherever you put it, make sure it's at least behind your rear axles, for best weight distribution.
-N
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:44 AM   #10
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Why even bother reloacting? I've never understood the facination with this unless

1) you've done everything else that one can do to shed weight, and
2) you're on the top of your driving game.

Also, moving 20 lbs, if you still insist on moving the stock battery to the trunk, will do nothing but ADD weight to the car in the weight of the cables. Redistibution weight is negligible (as I siad, there's other places that you should look at to reduce weight before considering moving the battery).

Just get the Odyssey and run it in the stock location. Putting the Odyssy in the trunk, the weight of the cables that you have run from front to back are pretty close to the weight of that battery itself... so you're only redistibuting a little bit of weight, making it... negligable again.

--kC
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:20 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Just get the Odyssey and run it in the stock location. Putting the Odyssy in the trunk, the weight of the cables that you have run from front to back are pretty close to the weight of that battery itself... so you're only redistibuting a little bit of weight, making it... negligable again.

--kC
That's not entirely true. My stock Subaru battery was >35lbs. My Odyssey weighs <15lbs with the bracket. I didn't add 20lbs of cable - more like 3-4lbs.

And I moved the weight from the heaviest corner of my car (especially when I'm driving) to the lightest. That said, I'm happy to have done the weight relocation because I do the most I can to offset the dead weight in the driver's seat on my car and I'm pretty happy to have gotten my car to a 55/45 weight distribution. I would say it wasn't something I was interested in until I'd reduced things like the AC (25lbs in front of the front axle), stereo, stock seats, roof rails, etc. I made weight reduction and relocation a decent priority, but I'm sure any one of those things was unnoticeable in and of itself. But most of the weight reduction my class allows is free to do, and I like cheap mods.
-N
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:49 AM   #12
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Firstly, you don't need a 1 gauge cable. 4 gauge is fine. 4 gauge is good up to 200 amps for short runs. I have mine fused for 80 amps and it hasn't popped the fuse yet. Secondly, it's not just weight, it's where the weight is. Stock battery is 35 lbs, high up and out on the nose of the car. The worst place for it from a handling stand point. Weight isn't the only issue, where the weight is, is important to handling too. The more weight on the ends of the car, the harder it is to change the car's direction while steering. Many performance cars have the battery in the trunk.

Changing the battery and position is a good way to get some weight reduction without messing up the creature comforts of the car. It's essentially free. It changes the weight distribution, how ever small rearward. My car is a track AND street car. I'm not giving up my radio and sub for when I DD but, they come out when I'm at the track.

At some level I agree with you KC, weight reduction on a pure street car really is pointless, but, for me the benefits were worth it. Cleaner engine compartment. Lower CG, weight reduction and moving some weight rearward.

I found the PC680's too small for DD purposes. I've stepped up to the next bigger size. I got tired or worrying about leaving the radio or dome lights on and tired of the battery dying at every alignment.
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:19 PM   #13
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Show me that it helps and I'll believe you. But IMHO, dropping 15-20-25 lbs is lost in the mud compared to losing time on the course due to driving errors. You just don't see the time.

You've moved some weight around. Great. How much faster did you get because of it?

IMHO, if you're not the fastest driver out there, your driving mistakes take away from the minimal gains moving the battery *may* provide. Going from a 35lb battery to a 10-15lb battery, but leaving it in the stock location, you drop 20-25lbs in that corner. Adding in another 4-5lbs of cable, but relocating the battery, you've only dropped 15-20 lbs... but sure, that 35lbs is not in *that* corner.

Sorry, I'm a disbeliever. Save your time and money and put it towards something that truly makes you be faster and a better driver. Rcomps instead of street tires, extra set of wheels, Hoosers instead of Kumhos, better shocks (or revalving), some other mod that helps you go faster.

Relocating a battery is one of them things that should be almost dead last on the list of things to do, and only if you have the $$ to blow.

--kC
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:37 PM   #14
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When you're talking about modifying for performance, you can't compare that directly to driving better. It's about both and it doesn't have to be a choice between them. I try to drive better too, but bringing that up here just suggests that you think modifying a car (any modification?) is somehow an alternate to driving better, when obviously that's not the case.

For a minimal extra expenditure, I brought the weight of my car 1% further back - that's the entirety of the consideration. It was worth it to me. For a nose-heavy Impreza with a really heavy nose, I consider all the weight up front (and the heavy weight in general) the key weaknesses in my class. For <$50, I could correct a bit of that.

I can't say it made a difference in and of itself as it was done among many other modifications for weight reduction and with a brand new engine build. But I know that the collection of miniscule little changes I was allowed in an SP engine build and the collection of small weight reductions/relocations I made definitely helped. They aren't big gains, but they are helpful and cheap, for more so than another set of wheels or better shocks.
-N
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Firstly, you don't need a 1 gauge cable. 4 gauge is fine. 4 gauge is good up to 200 amps for short runs. I have mine fused for 80 amps and it hasn't popped the fuse yet. Secondly, it's not just weight, it's where the weight is. Stock battery is 35 lbs, high up and out on the nose of the car. The worst place for it from a handling stand point. Weight isn't the only issue, where the weight is, is important to handling too. The more weight on the ends of the car, the harder it is to change the car's direction while steering. Many performance cars have the battery in the trunk.

Changing the battery and position is a good way to get some weight reduction without messing up the creature comforts of the car. It's essentially free. It changes the weight distribution, how ever small rearward. My car is a track AND street car. I'm not giving up my radio and sub for when I DD but, they come out when I'm at the track.

At some level I agree with you KC, weight reduction on a pure street car really is pointless, but, for me the benefits were worth it. Cleaner engine compartment. Lower CG, weight reduction and moving some weight rearward.

I found the PC680's too small for DD purposes. I've stepped up to the next bigger size. I got tired or worrying about leaving the radio or dome lights on and tired of the battery dying at every alignment.
Totally have to agree with pc680 comment.. i've tried many light weight batteries on my DD/track car, and they just dont work.. esp on a sti.

I've been thinking about relocating the batter to the trunk as well.. but information is scarce on this.
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:50 PM   #16
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Show me that it helps and I'll believe you. But IMHO, dropping 15-20-25 lbs is lost in the mud compared to losing time on the course due to driving errors. You just don't see the time.

You've moved some weight around. Great. How much faster did you get because of it?

IMHO, if you're not the fastest driver out there, your driving mistakes take away from the minimal gains moving the battery *may* provide. Going from a 35lb battery to a 10-15lb battery, but leaving it in the stock location, you drop 20-25lbs in that corner. Adding in another 4-5lbs of cable, but relocating the battery, you've only dropped 15-20 lbs... but sure, that 35lbs is not in *that* corner.

Sorry, I'm a disbeliever. Save your time and money and put it towards something that truly makes you be faster and a better driver. Rcomps instead of street tires, extra set of wheels, Hoosers instead of Kumhos, better shocks (or revalving), some other mod that helps you go faster.

Relocating a battery is one of them things that should be almost dead last on the list of things to do, and only if you have the $$ to blow.

--kC
(Drive better)
i'll have to agree with this as well.. if you're not a good enough driver.. moving the batter wont help at all.
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Old 04-17-2009, 03:12 PM   #17
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i'll have to agree with this as well.. if you're not a good enough driver.. moving the batter wont help at all.
that can be said about ANY mod really

bottom line:
for straight line fast driving a lighter battery is better
for track/handling rear mounted battery is better

now can we see more installs for both versions
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Old 04-17-2009, 03:43 PM   #18
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http://wgbuckley.com/projects/battery.html

Heres a link for a sedan its perty good my self im going to do it where the stock tire is lower center of gravity ftw.

You all have a good point but + one for doing the mod is now you could add say an ic spray or anything that will fit in the batt position sure your adding wieght back there but you could potentially add more power.

Just a thought.
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:38 PM   #19
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Well, I got a sealed battery box in a trade for a nomex headsock I don't use...so why not try it out? It can't hurt esp on our nose heavy Imprezas, like neilschelly said. FYI, some people enjoy DIY mods like this because of the fun in completing the project and the satisfaction it brings knowing that you did it yourself, not because it'll net you a tenth or two on track or on the autox course ...its a bit different then just "slapping on R comps". And cheaper

Inside the cabin is not an option for me because I want to stay legal for STX, so I'll scope out the passenger's side rear corner.

Spanky, that's an awesome link, thanks!
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Old 04-18-2009, 12:11 AM   #20
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the odyssey batteries do not vent during normal useage

mine was under the passengers seat for 5 years, no issue

you only need one 4ga cable to the POS...the NEG ran to the seat mount bolt and worked just great

i have posted pics in the past

the difference of moving the battery made the car 'point' much better and anybody that says that moving the battery wont make any difference has their head in the UP mode

I would NOT-NOT-NOT mount the deka battery in any orientation other than uprght

the odyssey batteries dont like heat....that makes underhood use problematic....I had 5 years use out of mine under the seat and would do it again in a heartbeat
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:09 AM   #21
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Quote:
the odyssey batteries do not vent during normal useage
Not sure where I read it. Now that I check the PDF's, they agree with Uncle, no gas from the Odyssey. Oh well, I'm happy now that using a sealed box isn't critical.
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:24 AM   #22
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Scotty, what I'm saying is it should be one of the last things done after you've done almost everything else already.

Here's the deal... buy Odyssey or other lightweight battery. I highly suggest this to anyone as the stock battery *is* heavy.

My point is, once you *have* that battery, leaving 10lbs in the stock location vs moving 10 lbs elsewhere in the car, the relocation of that weight is so negligible, it is totally lost in the mud of driving capabilities.

--kC
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:46 AM   #23
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I would NOT-NOT-NOT mount the deka battery in any orientation other than uprght
Getting slightly OT, but are these not sealed as well, or do they have problems with plates (or whatever they use) if not upright? I'd save about $200 with the Deka but will pay extra for the Odyssey if needed. Thanks for chimming in here.

Chris.
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:51 AM   #24
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The Odyssey batteries don't vent, as Scotty said. They are safe to use inside the car. They also have an alternate version that has a metal jacket (a pound or two heavier too) that is considered safe for use under the hood. The metal jacket does more to protect the batter from the potential of heat under the hood. They can also be mounted in pretty much any orientation, rather than having to be upright.

The only caveat to the Odyssey batteries is that they are an AGM battery (absorbed glass mat). I found out the hard way that leaving one discharged for too long will kill it as the materials inside will degrade and permanently become unable to hold a charge. Since I barely drive my car over the winter, I killed mine (and that's why I have a warranty replacement for sale). I didn't have any trouble with the PC680 battery in the summer through relatively normal usage. That said, it did take a few extra turns to start the car sometimes and I don't have a stereo. I also have the underdrive pulleys though, so that was making things harder for it. Now, I run the PC680 for events and wired up a stock battery for the long lulls between events. In other words, a daily driver would have _fewer_ problems with an undersized Odyssey battery.
-Neil
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Old 04-19-2009, 07:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Scotty, what I'm saying is it should be one of the last things done after you've done almost everything else already.

Here's the deal... buy Odyssey or other lightweight battery. I highly suggest this to anyone as the stock battery *is* heavy.

My point is, once you *have* that battery, leaving 10lbs in the stock location vs moving 10 lbs elsewhere in the car, the relocation of that weight is so negligible, it is totally lost in the mud of driving capabilities.

--kC
What if I find 10 additional pounds to move?

Then ten more after that?

What if I increase the volumetric efficiency of my engine 0.5%?

What if I lighten my valve spring retainers by .01 ounces?

What if I hand-fabricate carbon components to replace stock components and lose only 2lbs after 20 hours of work?

Now also add 10 other tiny improvements like these and put exactly equal drivers in the "didn't bother" car and "tweaked anally" car.

"Waste of time" is subjective.
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