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Old 04-19-2009, 11:28 AM   #26
KC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine View Post
What if I find 10 additional pounds to move?

Then ten more after that?

What if I increase the volumetric efficiency of my engine 0.5%?

What if I lighten my valve spring retainers by .01 ounces?

What if I hand-fabricate carbon components to replace stock components and lose only 2lbs after 20 hours of work?

Now also add 10 other tiny improvements like these and put exactly equal drivers in the "didn't bother" car and "tweaked anally" car.

"Waste of time" is subjective.
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Relocating a battery is one of them things that should be almost dead last on the list of things to do, and only if you have the $$ to blow.

--kC
(Drive better)
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Scotty, what I'm saying is it should be one of the last things done after you've done almost everything else already.
---kC
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:58 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Scotty, what I'm saying is it should be one of the last things done after you've done almost everything else already.

Here's the deal... buy Odyssey or other lightweight battery. I highly suggest this to anyone as the stock battery *is* heavy.

My point is, once you *have* that battery, leaving 10lbs in the stock location vs moving 10 lbs elsewhere in the car, the relocation of that weight is so negligible, it is totally lost in the mud of driving capabilities.
--kC
that's what I thought until i did it

and taking~75 pounds(or a bit more) off the front of the car ABSOLUTLY-100%-TOTALLY DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE

The battery---'U' brace...'green brackets'.....lw crank pully...and on and on

ALL of that DOES make a BIG difference....and moving the ~35 pounds totally off the front is a BIG part of that...add a lw bumper beam and you have even MORE

this is not a 'one thing' to do...it is a big part of the whole picture

and taking all the possible weight off the front of these cars is HUGE in changing--for the much better....the handling characteristics

moving the battery isnt a 'last thing' to do....it is a first thing to do, IMO

Last edited by Uncle Scotty; 04-24-2009 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:04 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by CPC View Post
Getting slightly OT, but are these not sealed as well, or do they have problems with plates (or whatever they use) if not upright? I'd save about $200 with the Deka but will pay extra for the Odyssey if needed. Thanks for chimming in here.

Chris.
the Odyssey is FAA approved for aerobatic aircraft use for a reason

the deka, not so much

I did a lot of research on these batteries and the Odyssey is th only one I'd trust on its side
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:53 AM   #29
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I guess we just have to disagree on this.

If you're going to do a host of other things to do to totally change the front end weight and weight distribution, sure, move the battery, and I have agreed with that multiple times. As you said, you pulled off "75lbs or a bit more", it makes sense.

However, leaving 10lbs in the stock battery location and *not* doing other things to totally reduce the front end weight, is not a game changer, and to me, no reason to move the battery by *adding* 5lbs more of cables just to move the battery (and do no other changes for removal of front end weight).

You're not going to notice the effects of JUST relocating the 10lbs from the new battery. Relocating *only* 10lbs is not going to change the handling dynamics of a car so much that can be noticed. Hence, it's lost in the mud of driving capability.

I'm just alerting people to the fact that if you're going to only do the smaller (Also agree with the Oddysey being the only one that you should get) battery, there's no need to move it. Some people thinks just moving the small battery helps. It doesn't, unless you're going to also work to wholly and materially continue to reduce your front end weight.

At least understand that one point, which has been my whole point from the beginning.

--kC

Last edited by KC; 04-24-2009 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:16 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
You're not going to notice the effects of JUST relocating the 10lbs from the new battery. Relocating *only* 10lbs is not going to change the handling dynamics of a car so much that can be noticed. Hence, it's lost in the mud of driving capability.

<snip>

At least understand that one point, which has been my whole point from the beginning.

--kC
Seconded...
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:56 AM   #31
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I understand what KC means (and yes, I was probably the worst weight concious anal engineer from many of the teams I've dealt with). I do know and completely agree that adding up bit by bit by bit adds up (probably comes first from my backpacking experience) but while at the same time...Joe Blow DD who still have full interior, AC, his subs, etc really shouldn't be looking for this. Someone who DD's and tracks his car and is serious enough to hold consistent times, should do it if they want.

Simply put it won't be the most effective or noticable upgrade for a newer driver. Not saying that it isn't a worthwhile mod.

So what model Odyssey should one buy? Is there a deka and non-deka PC680?
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:24 PM   #32
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Deka is the source for Braille batteries. They are significantly cheaper than Brailles, but I've heard they are the same batteries.

Odyssey batteries are made by Enersys. That said, I use (and I'm selling in another thread) a PC680. It's could be a bit on the small side depending on exactly your needs are. The only reason I have any trouble with mine is because I drive the car too rarely.
-N
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:27 PM   #33
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I've been using a deka (i think model 14 or something) for over a year on it's side. No problems. The battery was fully drained though recently when my car was towed and the alarm went off all night. It's hasn't totally recovered from that, but should still last through the racing season.

Oh, and I used it all winter (in colorado) as well which I shouldn't have. But it started (mostly) everytime.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:31 PM   #34
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Im in the process of doing this. I feel that this ALONG with others this help a lil.
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:46 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
I guess we just have to disagree on this.


--kC
OK...JUST changing the battery is totally ****ing pointless

absolutly-completely-100% as pointless as a training bra on Dolly Parton

as is this whole agrument over NOTHING

if you do NOT move the battery...you may as well leave the stock battery where it IS and not be concerned with any of this

moving the battery and reducing its mass is part of the whole thing and ie DOES make a LOT of difference

too many pointless posts in threads debating nonsense and irrlevancies on this board

the meat and potato meal is seeing the whole thing

I SEE the whole thing---too many do NOT
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:13 PM   #36
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Uncle Scotty,
it may come as a big surprise to you, but this BB would get along just fine without you and your BS scolding.
Superg
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:10 PM   #37
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Yeah, string him up. Next, I'll like to ban people who bring nearly one month old threads back to life for no reason...

And it's a forum, not a BB.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:33 PM   #38
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Uncle Scotty,
it may come as a big surprise to you, but this BB would get along just fine without you and your BS scolding.
Superg
Uncle Scotty is still a n00b to me.

But yeah... if you have a problem with him, work it out amongst yourselves. No need to bring up an older thread, and then contribute nothing to the topic at hand... like I just did.

--kC
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:37 PM   #39
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sot of back on topic, KC, your position seems to be that the driver mod takes priority over others, and instead of moving the battery, a driver should seek to improve their skill. nielschelly put it pretty well in saying that driver mods and car mods are not mutually exclusive, they're both ways to get you from a to b faster. there's no sense in putting off mods till you're done learning to be a better driver, since you can never be done.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:18 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Why even bother reloacting? I've never understood the facination with this unless

1) you've done everything else that one can do to shed weight, and
2) you're on the top of your driving game.

Also, moving 20 lbs, if you still insist on moving the stock battery to the trunk, will do nothing but ADD weight to the car in the weight of the cables. Redistibution weight is negligible (as I siad, there's other places that you should look at to reduce weight before considering moving the battery).

Just get the Odyssey and run it in the stock location. Putting the Odyssy in the trunk, the weight of the cables that you have run from front to back are pretty close to the weight of that battery itself... so you're only redistibuting a little bit of weight, making it... negligable again.

--kC
I Agree with this post.

If you gotta move it, move it to the passenger seat area. That'll give you engine bay that "clean" look you're going for and save weight of cable going to the trunk.
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:12 PM   #41
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I wish Subaru just located the battery in the trunk floor from the factory like a BMW.
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:22 PM   #42
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^or evo x
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:24 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by thad View Post
sot of back on topic, KC, your position seems to be that the driver mod takes priority over others, and instead of moving the battery, a driver should seek to improve their skill. nielschelly put it pretty well in saying that driver mods and car mods are not mutually exclusive, they're both ways to get you from a to b faster. there's no sense in putting off mods till you're done learning to be a better driver, since you can never be done.
A driver can be easily fooled into thinking they're a better driver after doing a mod, than they really are. They may gain a little bit of time, but was that time from the mod, or experience?

Think r-compounds. A novice driver will definitely become a bit faster on r-comps than street tires right out of the box, but the r-comps will mask/hide errors the driver is making.

Fix those mistakes as a driver, and then you can use the r-comps to their fullest potential and be much, much faster. Street tires will show your shortcomings as a driver much, much sooner.

Again, when you're at a certain point as a driver and have enough experience, then start playing with mods. Not only will it save you more $$ in the long run, you'll be able to watch and evaluate what's working and what's not before even buying.

It's amazing when you just sit back and watch, what one can learn though other peoples trials.

--kC
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
It's amazing when you just sit back and watch, what one can learn though other peoples trials.
--kC
That sounds like the perspective of someone who didn't come to enough events this year. ;-P
-N
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:44 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post

too many pointless posts in threads debating nonsense and irrlevancies on this board

before doing a battery relocation project here's one definite NON-irrelevancy--check your state's inspection laws.

here in greater metro woodsy Maine, moving battery to passenger compartment is automatic FAIL for state inspection (as is mounting FIA spec fuel cell in trunk, etc) and I believe that you'd fail maine insp by moving battery to ANY other than stock location....
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:45 PM   #46
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After dealing with a fubared drivers side headlight connection all weekend, I'd move the battery to the back just for making my life easier dealing with that headlight bulb
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:18 PM   #47
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RB5, you sure that's not just one inspector being an ass? Here in Virginia, they don't even care. I got my fully caged civic (with battery in the hatch area) inspected and they didn't even bat an eyelash.

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...-Asec1751.html



I like this one

Quote:
6. Alteration after inspection. A person commits a Class E crime if that person alters equipment after inspection so that the equipment does not conform to the standards of this subchapter.
[ 1993, c. 683, Pt. A, 2 (NEW); 1993, c. 683, Pt. B, 5 (AFF) .]
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:58 PM   #48
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RB5, you sure that's not just one inspector being an ass?

Heh, would be nice if it were that simple. It's more like a whole state-ful of inspectors being driven to ass-dom by misguided and narrowly written laws.

sometimes ME inspectors will let stuff slide, but only if they know you. the effing state has done numerous sting operations and busted garages left n right for letting otherwise sensible stuff slide.

ME inspections laws are so specific it's laughable. things like, upsizing stock WRX 205-55-16 tires to 225-50-16 = illegal. Maine law decrees that an FIA fuel cell designed to withstand multiple barrel rolls onto boulder piles ain't safe if not mounted in stock position. neither are sealed/shrouded/encased batteries mounted in pass compartment. ditto braided SS/aeroquipped fuel lines. double ditto FIA harnesses, race seats, yadda yadda....gaaah, don't get me started!

if you think I'm mad, talk to the off-road truck community up here.
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:52 PM   #49
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So I put mine in the trunk under the spare, for me i have a full size spare i hated that dinky little dohnut especialy since i take long trips frequently and have a 40 mile one way to work.

As far as noticing a diff i for sure do notice its not a huge night and day but def a night to morning or dusk. deff lightens the front not as much washout when cornering hard.

I love how people just dont understand that moving that much weight is very good for cornering and the fact that it is a 2 or so hour job that is the easiest in my book it is well worth it.

So here is 2 pics of my install of what it looks like in the trunk.

This is with the spare over


this is uncovered i have the blocks of wood cuz the rim is very skinny and the backside of the wheel contacts the positive and negative poles but if you were to have a 7.5 or so inch. rim youd be fine.



here is the site i based mine off of
http://www.wgbuckley.com/projects/battery.html

PS my trunk is not this dirty anymore i just didnt clean up after i was done before i took the pics
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:57 PM   #50
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God I've always wanted to do this!
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