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Old 04-18-2009, 05:37 PM   #26
JSarv
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Your walbro, even with the BAP, will run out of good stuff around 450-475 whp on E85 (closer to 425 without it)

Your giong to need 70-80PSI Static fuel pressure with your injectors you currently have, not many people have tested long term running high fuel pressure with those (Or I have never found results)

You might consider that Bosch 044 intank setup and your BAP with the Bosch ID 1000's - Start with 80-90 psi on low boost (your going to need a VERY VERY large amount of fuel to feed your soon to be big fire)

Bosch's are good for around 400whp on 3bar fuel pressure, your walbro is good for about 425 on the same pressure.
The walbor becomes very restrictive one you go over 65psi (43+22psi) your going to need around 100 (70+ plus 30psi Rising rate) to make 500whp...

I mean give it a shot but your going to run out of pump and injectors faster than you could ever imagine...

-Jerod
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
Your walbro, even with the BAP, will run out of good stuff around 450-475 whp on E85 (closer to 425 without it)

Your giong to need 70-80PSI Static fuel pressure with your injectors you currently have, not many people have tested long term running high fuel pressure with those (Or I have never found results)

You might consider that Bosch 044 intank setup and your BAP with the Bosch ID 1000's - Start with 80-90 psi on low boost (your going to need a VERY VERY large amount of fuel to feed your soon to be big fire)

Bosch's are good for around 400whp on 3bar fuel pressure, your walbro is good for about 425 on the same pressure.
The walbor becomes very restrictive one you go over 65psi (43+22psi) your going to need around 100 (70+ plus 30psi Rising rate) to make 500whp...

I mean give it a shot but your going to run out of pump and injectors faster than you could ever imagine...

-Jerod
I think the op is going to run a 92 map primarily and see how far he can go with the E85 for now it sounds like....And for the 92 he has plenty of injector to play with...
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
I think the op is going to run a 92 map primarily and see how far he can go with the E85 for now it sounds like....And for the 92 he has plenty of injector to play with...
Missed that. He won't get much over 375-400 on E. I hope he decides to go the way he will never regret and go E, I'm excited to see some numbers.

He will be fine on 92 with that much fuel though

GL to the OP keep us updated, if you do go E you won't go back...


-Jerod
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:29 PM   #29
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Yeah E85 has unbelievable torque gains...
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:38 PM   #30
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HP gains too... Mostly above 6k though as running continuous boost till redline is made easier (less det prone)

I love it and won't evar go back - infact my DD is getting a Walbro 255 and an FPR to crank up the fuel pressure 25-30% so I can run it - I guess I'll see how it does with no timing corrections!!!


-Jerod
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:53 PM   #31
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Thanks for the advice guys. I will be doing 92 off the bat just because I need a vehicle, at the same time we'll do an E85 tune to see how much we can get and what max's out first. At that point I'm sure the addiction will be in full effect and a new pump/injectors will be on their way before long. I'll definately put up as much data as I can get, I'm surprised how little info there is out there on fuel solutions for the GT30/E85 set up.

Progress till more parts arrive:



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Old 04-18-2009, 07:01 PM   #32
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Well I can tell you the limits of pumps and injectors - 500whp will need apx 1250-1400cc of fuel per injector (depends on how lean you run it)

450 will need 1100-1300cc per injector.

Your stock walbro runs out of go go juice at 80psi at around 1150cc per injector - 70psi is good for almost 1200cc per injector

A Bosch 044 will supply enough fuel for 1600cc injectors at 120base pressure (I'm not certain but I know that is ballpark numbers)

I consider 1600cc per injector to be the limit of Subaru's fueling system - a swirl pot and lift pump/inline with AN lines will be needed at/around that point..

You can clear 500whp on E85 with the stock lines (I really honestly think so).

If you want someone to tell you exactly what you will need pump/injector wise call Tony at T1 - hes done several EVO's and Honda's well over 5-600whp on E.

Thats really all I can tell you.. I don't have any experience over 350whp BUT I have researched the flow values of things and based of my power output with the amount of fuel I use, those numbers are calculated, MICK might be able to help you out, hes running E on his track car.

-jerod
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:26 PM   #33
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Thanks for the details, that helps a lot. Do you think somewhere between 400whp and 500whp the risk on stock internals jumps up to point where it might not be a good idea for a daily driver? If that's the case, something like 450whp would be acceptable if that was all I could get from the modded injectors/walbro/BAP combo.

I'm sure in the not too far future I'll end up either breaking something and upgrading, or becoming addicted to the point that I just say screw it and go forged. At that point I'd definately do whatever it took to max the potential of the GT30 on E85 - unless of course there's a concensous that stock internals can go further.

Thanks again
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:18 PM   #34
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E85 eases things up a little on the combustion chamber heat issue...
Heat=failure/wear/tear

I was told 2.0's will give up at 300 or not last long at 300 - I'm 50+ past that for 5k miles with no issues.

I've read the 2.5 block/pistons are good for 450-500 (how true I don't know) truthfully its all in the tune.

You will be at the end of your Walbro + BAP at 450whp...

Honestly, your block might fail at 350whp or it might make and take 500+ - modding also = failure

Keep up updated, you will truly love E85, but I got lucky and get TRUE 85% ethanol all year round, where 99% of places change their mixture, and this will most definitely require a retune... A tune for summer/springfall/winter will be necessary depending on where you are. The change will not be big, just a little bit of fuel work (mainly just rescaling the injectors) and drop the timing 1-2* at higher loads...


-Jerod
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Old 04-20-2009, 07:20 PM   #35
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If you are picky with tuning, you notice changes in the mixture with every single tank of fuel when using E85 around here. 350 wtq on a 2.5 TD04 is pretty amusing though.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:21 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piddster View Post
If you are picky with tuning, you notice changes in the mixture with every single tank of fuel when using E85 around here. 350 wtq on a 2.5 TD04 is pretty amusing though.
I have been Very picky and I watch my WB every fill up and data log so much it would make the normal person ..... and I don't see variations in my tanks of E85 at all.... It never changes my Lambda at all at idle or wot seriously... Jorge warned me that I would see too many changes in the mixture (thats why he said he wouldn't tune E85 for me) so I was very paranoid about that...But I have had ZERO problems with the mixture changing at all..... 0.78 Lambda for many wins....
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:41 PM   #37
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I'd like to see your 1/4 mile times when you're finished.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:28 PM   #38
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I'll post all the dyno graphs and timeslips once it's done. I'm still on track to get it tuned next tuesday, as long as I get my intake manifold, TGVs & throttle body in time. So far I've bolted on the headers, up pipe, turbo, wastgate, and exhaust, hooked up the stainless AVCS & power steering lines from P&L, a newer Seibon trunk, put in the Walbro and hooked up the boost a pump. Tonight I'm working on wiring in the AEM UEGO gauge and the AEM truboost set up. My front mount should be in tomorrow or thursday and then it's just hooking up the fuel rails to the TGV's & IM once they come it. A lot of work but I know it's gonna be worth it. I can't wait!
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:46 AM   #39
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Quote:
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I have been Very picky and I watch my WB every fill up and data log so much it would make the normal person ..... and I don't see variations in my tanks of E85 at all.... It never changes my Lambda at all at idle or wot seriously... Jorge warned me that I would see too many changes in the mixture (thats why he said he wouldn't tune E85 for me) so I was very paranoid about that...But I have had ZERO problems with the mixture changing at all..... 0.78 Lambda for many wins....


Hmmmm. Others have not had that experience. Tom (Wall of TVs) had to change his injector scaling with every tank.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:54 AM   #40
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keep us updated, i really wanna see how this works out
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Old 04-23-2009, 07:33 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piddster View Post
Hmmmm. Others have not had that experience. Tom (Wall of TVs) had to change his injector scaling with every tank.
Did he have modded stock injectors or something?.... I use learning view and everything the A/F learning are all plus or minus 2-5% ect. Maybe they are getting a little better at making E85 or maybe more people are using E85 and its not sitting in the storage tanks as long...I have only been using it since last june, who knows but personally I can not say I have had one problem with E85 changing at all between fillups. piddster you should get him to run E85 again and see if he still has to change the scalar every fill up, if not that could prove they are possibly getting better at producing it...
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Old 04-25-2009, 04:28 PM   #42
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So I got everything I need to finish this thing up, I'm working on getting the fuel rails set up and bolting the intake manifold back on, but I ran into something with the injectors.
It turns out the 07 injectors don't clip right into the 05 connectors. Check it out:



Has anyone dealt with this before? Can I just dremel off the notches on the injectors and zip tie the connectors on, or does polarity matter? Will I have to cut, flip and reconnect the wiring going to the connector too? -Thanks
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Old 04-25-2009, 05:00 PM   #43
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just dremel down that bottom tang and turn that plug around an you should be cool.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:08 PM   #44
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Thanks, did it and it worked fine.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:58 PM   #45
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I'm still working the top feed conversion, turns out the 05 STI fuel pressure regulator won't fit the junction block that comes with the Perrin top feed fuel rail kit. I noticed the fuel pressure regulator in my 02 WRX (blown tranny) will fit good, but will the wrx stock fuel pressure regulator support a maxed Walbro 255 w/a BAP feeding 1000cc injectors on E85?
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:28 AM   #46
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I am using an aeromotive fpr for my setup, if you had one it would be nice for you to be able to turn up the pressure some to utilize that BAP at your tune, higher pressure= better atomization... But the stock regulator should work fine for 43 psi base pressure(stock pressure)...
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:14 AM   #47
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A friend of mine mentioned "denting" in the top of a stock fpr to "preload" the spring that attaches to the diaphram in there, thus bumping up fuel pressure. It doesn't sound like an exact science, but the mechanics make sense. Anyone tried this or know anything about it?
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Old 04-26-2009, 09:55 AM   #48
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Yes that can be done , but you can press it in too far be careful....If you search it you can get some more exact information on it, I have not personally done that. I would leave stock fpr alone or get an aftermarket fpr if you want to raise the pressure, because if you just do the crush mod to the stock fpr you will not know what you bumped the pressure up to and it will be more difficult to scale your injectors (tuning)...
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:37 PM   #49
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Progress...





It was kind of a pain that the 07 STI intake manifold had one less vacuum port than the 05...I ended up t'ing off of the vacuum line for the fuel pressure regulator just to hook up the purge solenoid. I still have the boost a pump vacuum switch and the boost port of the boost control solenoid to route in there somewhere. Will 2 or 3 T's off of the fuel pressure regulator vacuum line scew the amount of boost the fpr is seeing?
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:46 PM   #50
JSarv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piddster View Post
Hmmmm. Others have not had that experience. Tom (Wall of TVs) had to change his injector scaling with every tank.
I have put almost 10k on my car with E85 from fall to now and have touched nothing since my new bosch injectors. From tank to tank its less than 1% which is as good as straight 93.

With modded stockers I had to change things everytime I started my car... They sucked...

E85 is consistent, Jorge just doesn't feel comfortable tuning it (my thoughts) because if Joe Smoe got tuned on E and accidently put in 93 and popped his **** he would say it was Jorge's fault. Hes smart enough to keep that off it sholders - plus in MOST places there is a seasonal change in E concentration (I'm lucky and get 85-87% all year)




-Jerod
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