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Old 07-10-2006, 01:12 PM   #1
powerlabs
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Default ECUTEK99 or Apexi PowerFC: Does anyone have any experience?

Lately I have been looking into getting some engine management for my car. I am running a Version 8 shortblock with Version 5 WRX Type RA heads and a VF22 Turbo. Everything is ported and polished and I have an STI TMIC instead of the original WRX one, but the rest is stock.
The whole combo is run by the original WRX Type RA ECU, which can only be reflashed by ECUTEK99. There is only one place in this continent that will do it (Lachute Subaru in Quebec); it is an 18 hour drive, and it will cost approximately $1000 for the reflash.

OR I can buy an Apexi Power FC for $750 and spend some money tuning that on a dyno.

Lachute Subaru said that they typically gain 30hp - 30ft/lbs on stock motors running the stock turbo, and a lot less lag. Plus being a reflash I would retain all the stock driveability.
On the other hand the standalone would allow me to continue tuning as I upgraded further down the road, which I may or may not do.

I guess what it boils down to is which one is the better option... Can anyone give me some input???

--Sam Barros.
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Old 07-10-2006, 05:20 PM   #2
FuJi K
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well....tuning is pretty much the same with all standalones. All youre looking for are the simple air/fuel ratio, knock, timing, etc....Some just have more options than others.

I'm working on my EJ22T swap right now and I've prepped the ECU plugs with 3 more wires that are needed to run the Power FC; igntion cyl #3/4 and fan cntrl #2. I'll be getting the FC Datalogit so I can datalog and all the fancy stuff.
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Old 07-10-2006, 07:26 PM   #3
kbahus
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I just ordered a power fc for my ej20g. I am excited to get it in the car and see how it does with a dyno tune. Should arrive in a couple weeks and I will post results.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:22 AM   #4
Scoobie Steve
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I dont believe that 30hp/ftlbs for one bit. Maybe on a none STi ECU. The JDM STi ecu is tuned very agressive stock and if anything it needs to be detuned for our gas. Now in your case with some mods I can see some slight improvements being made.

I really wouldnt go for the flash. You should get the PFC....partly because I want to see the gains you get from it .

I am still up in the air over what I want. PFC or Hydra. Price is close but both have some advantages. The FC comes with a pretty good base map....good drivabilty, but the Hydra is better in almost every other way. Just more tuning.

Hydra with wideband $1975
FC $750+datalogit $375+wideband $300= $1400
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Old 07-11-2006, 09:48 AM   #5
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I see on this site, that people are getting some pretty big gains from tuning their Version 3 and 4 ECUs. Stock it is rich, so there is more power to be had, but at what price?
See here. http://dyno.scoobynet.co.uk/PEindex/jap.htm
The 'Power Engineering Phase I conversion' includes an ECU remap.
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobie Steve
I dont believe that 30hp/ftlbs for one bit. Maybe on a none STi ECU. The JDM STi ecu is tuned very agressive stock and if anything it needs to be detuned for our gas. Now in your case with some mods I can see some slight improvements being made.

I really wouldnt go for the flash. You should get the PFC....partly because I want to see the gains you get from it .

I am still up in the air over what I want. PFC or Hydra. Price is close but both have some advantages. The FC comes with a pretty good base map....good drivabilty, but the Hydra is better in almost every other way. Just more tuning.

Hydra with wideband $1975
FC $750+datalogit $375+wideband $300= $1400
Power-fc base map is junk. Do NOT go into boost with it or else your asking for trouble.

As far as hydra vs power-fc. I think I would go with the hydra.
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Old 07-11-2006, 01:03 PM   #7
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I haven't used the Hydra, but I can chime in on the PowerFC. I have run one for 2 years now and it works great. I am using 740cc injectors and feeding the o2 sensor signal with the emulated wideband from my Zeitronix. It idles like a charm and AFR's are right on. I run the 5v out into the fc-datalogit box which is nice because the AFR gets logged right along with everything else at VERY high resolution.

The nice thing about the PFC is that it's literally plug & play, but I second the opinion that you should NOT trust the base maps on US fuel.

FWIW there is an ongoing project called fctune that is basically replacement for fc-datalogit. Search on www.rx7club.com for more info. The guy has been working on it for a long time.
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Old 07-11-2006, 03:15 PM   #8
99WRXEJ20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmross
I haven't used the Hydra, but I can chime in on the PowerFC. I have run one for 2 years now and it works great. I am using 740cc injectors and feeding the o2 sensor signal with the emulated wideband from my Zeitronix. It idles like a charm and AFR's are right on. I run the 5v out into the fc-datalogit box which is nice because the AFR gets logged right along with everything else at VERY high resolution.

The nice thing about the PFC is that it's literally plug & play, but I second the opinion that you should NOT trust the base maps on US fuel.

FWIW there is an ongoing project called fctune that is basically replacement for fc-datalogit. Search on www.rx7club.com for more info. The guy has been working on it for a long time.
You have a write up on how to use a wideband with the power-fc?
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Old 07-11-2006, 03:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99WRXEJ20
You have a write up on how to use a wideband with the power-fc?
It depends on what wideband you are using.

Basically, your wideband sensor will follow a curve that can be represented by a polynomial. You simply calculate the values for the curve where you want greatest resolution (10-15 AFR) and program them into the PFC for one of the AUX inputs. The values should be provided with the wideband kit. I used excel to calculate them for the the zeitronix kit, so if you have that kit I can provide them to you.

Then just run the 0-5v line from your wideband controller into the AUX port of the datalogit box. The signal will be processed and the polynomial values that you input will translate the 0-5v signal to the appropriate AFR values, which will show up when logging.
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Old 07-11-2006, 04:59 PM   #10
99WRXEJ20
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hrmm I have a plx wideband right now. wonder if I can get this too work, cause that would be pimp.
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Old 07-11-2006, 06:03 PM   #11
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Did the wideband come with a list of voltages and associated AFR values? If so, it should be easy to figure out the poly.

Do you have the datalogit/powerfc manual? It's a bit rough to read but I can e-mail you a copy of it.
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Old 07-11-2006, 08:36 PM   #12
Scoobie Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99WRXEJ20
Power-fc base map is junk. Do NOT go into boost with it or else your asking for trouble.

As far as hydra vs power-fc. I think I would go with the hydra.
Then that solves it. There is no reason to buy a PFC instead of a Hydra unless Hydra doesnt make a ECU for your car (old G's maybe K's).
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Old 07-11-2006, 11:09 PM   #13
99WRXEJ20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobie Steve
Then that solves it. There is no reason to buy a PFC instead of a Hydra unless Hydra doesnt make a ECU for your car (old G's maybe K's).
I wouold have bought a hydra if they would have made one 2.5 years ago, but now I am too invested in the power-fc, which im not bitching about.
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Old 07-12-2006, 12:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobie Steve
Then that solves it. There is no reason to buy a PFC instead of a Hydra unless Hydra doesnt make a ECU for your car (old G's maybe K's).

I would say it really depends on what you want out of it and how much you want to spend. Personally, I prefer MAF based systems. I have no complaints about the PFC whatsoever, it is inexpensive, very flexible and powerful. To be honest, I'd like to see more PFC users around here so we can trade brainwaves more often.
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:10 AM   #15
Scoobie Steve
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I agree, I perfer MAF based systems, but they also have disadvantages too. If the PFC was just a bit cheaper or included data logging and wideband without "patches" I wouldnt be pulling my hair out. If you plan to have your car tuned by someone then data logging and wideband isnt needed and that makes the PFC much more affordable.

For me I think the Hydra is my best choice but I would love to try a PFC to see how its works.
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:56 AM   #16
dmross
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Check out these screenshots of the new PFC software that the guy on the rx7 board has been working on for the past year or more:


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Old 07-12-2006, 02:05 PM   #17
FuJi K
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That looks pretty!
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Old 07-12-2006, 02:38 PM   #18
tweakling
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GIMME!!! any idea how long it'll be until it's available? i'd be glad to do some beta testing.
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Old 07-12-2006, 03:07 PM   #19
dmross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweakling
GIMME!!! any idea how long it'll be until it's available? i'd be glad to do some beta testing.

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=439195

Register there and let him know you are interested in the EJ20G / EJ207 (5 & 6) version! I think he is working on them by ecu type but we should let him know there are a bunch of subaru guys waiting for this too!
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Old 07-12-2006, 04:31 PM   #20
powerlabs
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Apexi has a computer interface already for their Power FC, but it used to be only available for dealers. Hadn't that changed a year or two ago? I.E. Can't you buy the Apexi computer tuner software and cable?
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:42 PM   #21
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Has anyone seen a Power FC for the GD
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Old 04-20-2009, 10:31 AM   #22
dalhedian
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Default ej20k

I have a 95 impreza L with ej20k wiring, turbo intake manifold and transmission, and the engine is from an ej20g. I need to tune this car ... but I dont know what I should use to tune it they recomended me an Apexi Power FC to do it ... what do you guys recomend ??
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:45 AM   #23
Jaxx
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power fc+datalogit or vipec or link g4

ecutek 99 is not an option for you
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:29 AM   #24
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I'm switching to a ViPEC soon. BTW the ViPEC and Link G4 are the exact same hardware.
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