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Old 04-22-2009, 11:04 AM   #1
samagon
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Default Ford executive calls for increased gas tax, or hell doth froze

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04...eased-gas-tax/

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By now you've surely noticed that gas prices have stabilized at around $2 a gallon (or less, depending on location) in the United States. That's about half of what gas cost just about one year ago, which is both a blessing and a curse, depending on how you look at it. Add Bill Ford, Executive Chairman at the automaker that bears his name, to the list of those unhappy about cheap fuel. He says:

When gasoline went to $3.50 a gallon we saw a sea change in customer behavior. Now people are turning away from more fuel-efficient vehicles and taking the bigger vehicles. I've been talking for five years now about the need for a gas tax. We have to have some predictability on fuel pricing and that price signal has to be strong enough so customers will continue buying smaller, fuel-efficient cars.

It's certainly not a popular view among many, but Ford's assertion that an artificial increase in the cost of fuel would force consumers into choosing more efficient automobiles is likely accurate. It would also make it much easier for automakers to plan future model launches, knowing that new car buyers would want to purchase a vehicle in two years that will save on their monthly fuel bills.
wow, a car company executive (and a Ford to boot) wants to raise the gas tax, if someone had told me this a year ago, I would have said they were crazy.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:12 AM   #2
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Despite the fact that everyone will go nuts, the man has a point.
Well done Bill.

Now bring me a 4WD Focus RS and I'll be happy.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:14 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04...eased-gas-tax/



wow, a car company executive (and a Ford to boot) wants to raise the gas tax, if someone had told me this a year ago, I would have said they were crazy.
Why not..with Ford's push towards more fuel efficient cars, this would just help their sales.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:23 AM   #4
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Absolutely it would help their sales.

I agree fully with it, so long as the tax money collected is used to improve infrastructure (car alternatives), and grants for alternative fuel.

I mean, it is better to do it this way than to mandate companies to make cars that only a handful of the public want, whereas the govt can raise taxes and entice them to buy the cars they want to mandate the companies to make.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:28 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by samagon View Post
Bill Ford says:

When gasoline went to $3.50 a gallon we saw a sea change in customer behavior. Now people are turning away from more fuel-efficient vehicles and taking the bigger vehicles. I've been talking for five years now about the need for a gas tax. We have to have some predictability on fuel pricing and that price signal has to be strong enough so customers will continue buying smaller, fuel-efficient cars.
...and that's why Ford keeps building SUV's and pick-up trucks because for 5 years Ford has been striving to produce more fuel efficient automobiles for the world to drive. What a moron.

Ford wouldn't give a crap about gas prices if it wasn't for the gas price apocalypse and the recession we've experienced.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:31 AM   #6
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Gas goes up in the Summers anyway. He should just wait like everyone else that works in or around the energy sector.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:06 PM   #7
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A higher gas tax is absolutely the "right" thing to do, but it would be political suicide to vote for it for any politician. You might as well come out and say that you worship the devil, sacrifice babies and poison old people.

People aren't logical creatures, so stop trying to treat them as such.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:34 PM   #8
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So he wants the government to try to coerce the market through inflated taxes. Brilliant! We know that works because no one smokes cigarettes.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:40 PM   #9
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So he wants the government to try to coerce the market through inflated taxes. Brilliant! We know that works because no one smokes cigarettes.
Actually cigarette smoking has decreased significantly. But don't let your judgments be clouded by facts.



Gas taxes should be raised because frankly it's going to happen anyway and most people will be terribly unprepared. Don't you remember all the people who were crying that they couldn't afford to drive to work during the last spike? At least you can phase in a tax so people can change at a most reasonable pace instead of an abrupt shock to the economy.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:53 PM   #10
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Right less people are smoking now because of higher cigerette taxes? I think it is more because people are better educated about the affect of smoking. That's why smoking numbers have come down.

How do you equate last years $4.00 gas prices to a gas tax? There is a huge difference between a small tax increase than when prices double. Gas prices spiking like they did brought every financial misfortune to a head in this country and was the sparked that set the economy on fire.

I'm not even going to start on this subject, but I will agree a increase in the gas tax would be a good thing. I'm not going to support the idea though that because people were able to pay the higher prices for gas last year thus we can have a huge increase in the gas tax. That's just stupid and sets the country up for failure in the long run.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:54 PM   #11
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Mulally has been harping on about this for 2 years now.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:03 PM   #12
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I keep saying that a gas tax might not even be necessary... What I think they need to do is to tax inefficient vehicles more heavily... Have something along the lines of a gas guzzler tax like they already have..

Or maybe tax the vehicles according to engine size.....

I think that will steer people toward more fuel efficient solutions.

People are going back to SUV's because they are still relatively cheap... sad to say, but true...Look at people complaining about how a Toyota Landcruiser cost 60+K, when they can get a Yukon or whatever for much less..
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:07 PM   #13
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We already have all these measures in place. Gas is taxed. Gas guzzlers are taxed. We have emissions regulations up the wazoo and they're getting stricter every ****ing year. Christ, you people will NEVER stop until we're riding horses like the 1700s again!
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:13 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
So he wants the government to try to coerce the market through inflated taxes. Brilliant! We know that works because no one smokes cigarettes.
Much better than the ass-backwards CAFE attempts.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:16 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by jigga View Post
I keep saying that a gas tax might not even be necessary... What I think they need to do is to tax inefficient vehicles more heavily... Have something along the lines of a gas guzzler tax like they already have..

Or maybe tax the vehicles according to engine size.....

I think that will steer people toward more fuel efficient solutions.

People are going back to SUV's because they are still relatively cheap... sad to say, but true...Look at people complaining about how a Toyota Landcruiser cost 60+K, when they can get a Yukon or whatever for much less..
What does this accomplish that a gas tax wouldn't?
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:16 PM   #16
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We already have all these measures in place. Gas is taxed. Gas guzzlers are taxed. We have emissions regulations up the wazoo and they're getting stricter every ****ing year. Christ, you people will NEVER stop until we're riding horses like the 1700s again!
He's asking for an increase.

IMO, they aren't 'up the wazoo' , as consumers are still going back to inefficient garbage in response to the incentives.

Policy needs to dictate incentives that facilitate innovation and hence growth, not stagnation. Increasing gas tax would be one of many policies to facilitate innovation.

But alas, consumers will always bitch and moan about every nickle and dime, as if they are completely blind to the future and the burdens they will place on future generations.

Last edited by Merp; 04-22-2009 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:18 PM   #17
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How do you equate last years $4.00 gas prices to a gas tax?
I'll let JC speak for himself, but my guess is his thinking is that the price of gas can be more easily controlled if more of that final price per gallon was tax.

...(using hypothetical numbers here) say the price of gas is now $2.00 and there is $1.00 in tax for a total of $3/gallon at the pump.
Well when/if gas spikes to $3.00 and then the tax could reduced to 50-cents for a total of $3.50 at the pump.
So even though the cost of gas went up 50%, the price at the pump only went up 16%.

Again, those are just hypothetical numbers, but the theory is that it could act as a "buffer" to help stabilize the overall cost per gallon.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:24 PM   #18
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Read, he's asking for an increase.

IMO, they aren't 'up the wazoo' , as consumers are still going back to inefficient garbage in response to the incentives.

Policy needs to dictate incentives that facilitate innovation and hence growth, not stagnation. Increasing gas tax would be one of many policies to facilitate innovation.

But alas, consumers will always bitch and moan about every nickle and dime, as if they are completely blind to the future and the burdens they will place on future generations.
Tell me what to consume, oh wise government!
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:26 PM   #19
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Tell me what to consume, oh wise government!
Fail.

Incentive != Dictation, it's just a nudge in the right direction.

The free market doesn't always know what's best. Case in point: today's economy, I don't want to get into it, but a lack of regulation and foresight were two major factors.

Last edited by Merp; 04-22-2009 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:35 PM   #20
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If gas is higher, your food and services (like calling a plumber out to your house), go up! It will go up again on it's own. If you raise the taxes, how quickly can you recall them when gas is 5 bucks+ a gallon, demand drops, business is lost, and people get laid off again....

You cannot advocate one change to only affect 2 or 3 things, when in reality they effect 7-10 things.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
We already have all these measures in place. Gas is taxed. Gas guzzlers are taxed. We have emissions regulations up the wazoo and they're getting stricter every ****ing year. Christ, you people will NEVER stop until we're riding horses like the 1700s again!
You're really out there, you know that? You're missing half the damn point - that a predictable price point would allow for automakers to plan future production accordingly.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:47 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Merp View Post
Fail.

Incentive != Dictation, it's just a nudge in the right direction.

The free market doesn't always know what's best. Case in point: today's economy, I don't want to get into it, but a lack of regulation and foresight were two major factors.
Ding ding ding! Winn4r.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:53 PM   #23
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If gas is higher, your food and services (like calling a plumber out to your house), go up! It will go up again on it's own. If you raise the taxes, how quickly can you recall them when gas is 5 bucks+ a gallon, demand drops, business is lost, and people get laid off again....

You cannot advocate one change to only affect 2 or 3 things, when in reality they effect 7-10 things.
There's definitely a point here, but you're forgetting a major aspect of economics here, and generalizing for the extreme case of a huge tax.

The market responds to incentives. Higher gas prices will produce innovation, and thus growth, including jobs and such. All of these factors need to be considered to devise a good policy and to find the optimum taxing point.

IMO a specific tax would be much better at focusing on the auto industry, but a gas tax does have its place.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:45 PM   #24
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There's definitely a point here, but you're forgetting a major aspect of economics here, and generalizing for the extreme case of a huge tax.

The market responds to incentives. Higher gas prices will produce innovation, and thus growth, including jobs and such. All of these factors need to be considered to devise a good policy and to find the optimum taxing point.

IMO a specific tax would be much better at focusing on the auto industry, but a gas tax does have its place.
It is not extreme. 4-5 dollar gas can and probably will happen pretty soon. There is a cycle for oil prices, seasons if you will. It is almost summer and it should be very hot this year.

If you can dynamically adjust this tax so that it does not put too much strain on the rest of the economy it could work, but govt is too slow to do things like that. Obama said that a few weeks ago regarding something else.

More taxation going toward certain vehicles, except commercial vehicles would be better and I agree with you on that.

More taxation used this way, is good to slow down a fast growing economy or spur innovation, but when we are in a deep recession, more taxes on gasoline is counterproductive. Oil prices are volatile in general, everyone will feel the pinch again once jobs stop falling.
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Old 04-22-2009, 03:40 PM   #25
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You're really out there, you know that? You're missing half the damn point - that a predictable price point would allow for automakers to plan future production accordingly.
How would a gas tax be a predictable price point? The tax would be in addition to whatever rises and falls the price of gas sees. Let me sum up what Ford's saying:

We sold SUVs and trucks for years and now that this 'go green' fad took off we thought we could ride the high gas prices into hybrid heaven but now we can't since gas prices leveled out. We're not asking for a bailout, but help us out government!
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