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Old 01-09-2013, 12:59 AM   #1
Ryan321
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Default Tuning classes?

Anyone know of a tuneing near Springfield Ma. I'm not looking for a 101 class but an actual Class or multiple class.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:06 AM   #2
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STCC has an entire associate's degree program in automotive. You could check there.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:22 AM   #3
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:16 PM   #4
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ECU Calibration is far too niche to be a degreed program IMO.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:22 PM   #5
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I can see where that is the case, and I agree. Its just wishful thinking on my part haha. But I've had problems finding anything more than a basics class (101).
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:05 PM   #6
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OP - I know that feel bro. Your best bet is to get as many books on engine management as you can and read through the rom raider and other openecu tuning forums.

www.efi101.com
That site has an advanced course as well but it isnt going to really qualify you for tuning. You're going to need lots of practice and I would pm one of your local tuners to see if they are willing to let you sit in on a few tunes.

Last edited by space0monkey; 01-09-2013 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:29 PM   #7
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Tuning class would be interesting.But Id rather take a class on how to rebuild a subaru engine just for fun. I'll even work for free,bring coffee and donuts everyday just so I can get a hands on experience.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:49 AM   #8
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Wow great responses. I'll check STCC. I was thinking porter and Chester, too. I would just really like to understand the tuneing process. I have a access port And I feel that with a good understanding I would be able to take an OTS map and tweak it to suit my car reasonably well with out having a custom tune. As for mechanical, I have zero schooling I just learn by doing it, take it apart and pay attention to detail and google when I have a question.

What are there for tuners around here? I'm wondering if they would have a class if it was requested by enough people, but then again why teach your customers how to do what they are paying you to do. Haha.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyale93 View Post

There are no tuners in New England. This has never been asked before in the NESIC section. Nobody has ever done a search for the words "tuner" "tune", or "tuning".

Also, I love that you come back to the thread after the mods have cleaned up the flame war that had ensued and say "wow, great posts!"
...again with this stuff?

OP - I've asked around a bit and got pretty much what you expected for an answer. No one wants to help because it would cut into their profits. Its understandable I suppose but pretty dissapointing. I think your best bet is on the open tuning forums. Chances are they will be more helpful than the answers you are getting here. They might actually want to help instead of flame.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:07 AM   #10
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You expect someone to waste their time teaching you their skills so that you can cut their throat and compete against them?
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:07 AM   #11
Loyale93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by space0monkey View Post
...again with this stuff?
Yes, again. When I wrote that, there was literally another thread asking who was around to tune on the front page.

I'll post it below to help out. But be real: I, along with others who do the same thing, are not trying to be mean to the poster. We're trying to help this person help themselves. If the guy is serious about learning to tune, he should be able to get to the bottom of a webpage simply scanning the thread titles before asking a question. How else is he going to learn things?

Something about giving a person a fish versus teaching them to tune. Though I may have screwed up that proverb.

"Class, please read Page 54 in your handout that explains how not to blow up a customer's car."
Read, read, read... "Meh, I got half way down, how much could I have missed?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2450880
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vision.dynamix View Post
You expect someone to waste their time teaching you their skills so that you can cut their throat and compete against them?
No, I dont expect that. In fact I didnt ask for that. I understand that the tuning industry is a niche industry and that there is only so much money to go around. I just want to learn to tune my own cars and its pretty difficult to get any leads to do that. While I would love to be taught all the trade secrets by a pro that isnt going to happen, but maybe one of them could point out a book or point someone towards a route that they took when they started off.

I really dont think that's much to ask. Other people in other industries do this every day and many of them have a similiar small pond to swim in.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyale93 View Post

Yes, again. When I wrote that, there was literally another thread asking who was around to tune on the front page.

I'll post it below to help out. But be real: I, along with others who do the same thing, are not trying to be mean to the poster. We're trying to help this person help themselves. If the guy is serious about learning to tune, he should be able to get to the bottom of a webpage simply scanning the thread titles before asking a question. How else is he going to learn things?

Something about giving a person a fish versus teaching them to tune. Though I may have screwed up that proverb.

"Class, please read Page 54 in your handout that explains how not to blow up a customer's car."
Read, read, read... "Meh, I got half way down, how much could I have missed?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2450880
Yeah I get it, its irritating. I wish people would search more as well, or atleast scan the front page. But hey, this is the internet and thats not what happens.

I guess im just dissapointed because I started out on other sites where people aren't dicks every chance they get.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:19 AM   #14
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I (and tuners) have seen it time and time again. "I just wan to be able to tune my own car" eventually leads to tuning for friends for free (cut throat competition) and then Friends of friends for a fraction of a tuner's price (cut throat competition) and on and on.

I've personally spent more than my share of time training people who turned around and competed against me. And I've done the same to others.

Nobody ever learns a skill to exclusively help themselves.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vision.dynamix View Post
I (and tuners) have seen it time and time again. "I just wan to be able to tune my own car" eventually leads to tuning for friends for free (cut throat competition) and then Friends of friends for a fraction of a tuner's price (cut throat competition) and on and on.

I've personally spent more than my share of time training people who turned around and competed against me. And I've done the same to others.

Nobody ever learns a skill to exclusively help themselves.
I can see that be true in many cases, and I know thats why I got the answers I did when I asked. But I dont see why that is a reason to be a dick to someone who is asking an honest question. Seems to me that it would be better to just sit back and say nothing at all than to look like an *******.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:26 AM   #16
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It's entertaining to see how mad people get when it's pointed out how lazy or wrong they are.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:28 AM   #17
space0monkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vision.dynamix View Post
It's entertaining to see how mad people get when it's pointed out how lazy or wrong they are.
I know, thats why you troll haha.

In related news, thread cleanup in 3....2....
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:36 AM   #18
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Tuning is a completely self taught skill. Ask any of the big name tuners. They'll tell you they read the few books available on the subject, spent a lot of time on tuning boards, and spent even more time actually tuning cars.

Taking a class isn't going to get you anywhere near the knowledge base required. You just have to grow a pair and start tuning your own car. Don't listen to all the flamers saying you'll blow it up, in fact, don't listen to anyone who doesn't do any tuning themselves.

When I first bought my car, at 40k miles back in 08, I payed for someone to tune my car. I was overall unhappy with how my car performed after the tune. Still had spots of hesitation under light throttle, mpg actually got WORSE, and boost was all over the place depending on temperature.

Instead of paying someone else to fix it, I decided I was going to figure out how to do this myself. So I did exactly what I explained above. After a while (maybe 6 months or so of playing with the tune here and there), I corrected all the problems in my tune, all while GAINING 30whp and GAINING 2mpg on the highway.

Then at 60k miles I put on a bigger turbo (vf39) and injectors, and once again tackled the tuning myself.

Now it's 2013 and the car has 143k miles on it. Still pulls just as strong as it did when I first did the swap, and she sees redline on pretty much a daily basis.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:02 PM   #19
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marktheshark pretty much nailed it.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by space0monkey View Post
Thanks Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattminer View Post
marktheshark pretty much nailed it.
I like to compare tuning to investing. Would you hire a kid straight out of B school with a finance degree to manage your portfolio? Hell no!! Just like I wouldn't let someone who's taken a few tuning classes touch my car.

As with pretty much everything in life, experience>formal education. Period.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:44 PM   #21
space0monkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkTheShark View Post

I like to compare tuning to investing. Would you hire a kid straight out of B school with a finance degree to manage your portfolio? Hell no!! Just like I wouldn't let someone who's taken a few tuning classes touch my car.

As with pretty much everything in life, experience>formal education. Period.
I agree, thats also why I wish some established pro tuners would help out. Clearly I dont have 10-15 yrs experience and no one is going to think I could honestly compete with a protune.

But then again I know the response to this which is related to the ebay thread in General, people are cheap. People would likely come to someone charging $100 even if it was a ****ty tune instead of paying $500 for a protune. I mean how else are they going to get their money's worth out of their ebay parts!

Last edited by space0monkey; 01-10-2013 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:04 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by space0monkey View Post
I agree, thats also why I wish some established pro tuners would help out. Clearly I dont have 10-15 yrs experience and no one is going to think I could honestly compete with a protune.

But then again I know the response to this which is related to the ebay thread in General, people are cheap. People would likely come to someone charging $100 even if it was a ****ty tune instead of paying $500 for a protune. I mean how else are they going to get their money's worth out of their ebay parts!
The thing is though, there are plenty of places/shops with a "pro tuner" that charge 500 bucks for a "pro tune" that is subpar at best. I've fixed a few of those tunes here and there. I won't mention any shop names, as I don't want to be sued for slander , but fortunately they are shops that are not popular on this board anyway.

The names that always get brought up on this board, Bren, Matt at Wicked, and DSG are all top notch tuners. Pick whoever is closest to you.

Last edited by MarkTheShark; 01-10-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:18 PM   #23
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I learned how to tune on my own cars, and branched out to helping out friends. Hundreds of hours of researching, learning, experimenting and there is always more to know and things that are changing. So many things are platform specific and to be a very good tuner you have to know your platform inside out (which is why I only tune a handful of platforms these days). After about 8 years of learning I opened my own shop and have been doing that for about 5 years now.

As time has gone on I am much less tolerant of what I will actually tune / attempt to tune. Ive had this discussion with quite a few local tuners and its always the same thing. Almost every problem with tuning a car stems from a mechanical problem.

I tier my tuning prices to be more inline with the actual work performed and licensing costs in the case of things like Neptune chip tuning for hondas, or Nistune for nissans.

For example, basic setups on opensource are 200/350. Cobb AP Tunes which Ill be doing shortly will be slightly more. Standalones start at 850.

Im always willing to answer SPECIFIC questions that anyone asks regarding tuning theory. I wont sit down and walk you through tuning a car, but if you want to know what table X does, Ill always explain it.

Wicked M@
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:29 PM   #24
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Thanks Matt, you've already answered some questions that I've pm'd you!
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:35 PM   #25
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Yeah, all this is true. You really have to have the motivation to be able to learn it yourself, and a lot of tuning isnt straight out of the textbook, you have to get creative at times. You either have it or you don't.

I taught myself how to tune, simply out of the fact that I wanted to. I always thought it was intriguing, I had a solid background mechanically, and wanted to do it for myself. So I spent hours and hours reading forums and experimenting with my own stuff. I still experiment and learn something new every day.

Also, like Matt says, I find that other tuners will answer questions for you (and vice versa) if you have a specific question or specific issue that you are encountering or can't understand. By intelligent conversation on specific subjects, a lot of good info can be learned on both ends. BUT You can't expect someone to hold your hand and walk you through it, you'll never get good like that. Don't expect to be taken seriously or actually become proficient by being spoon fed info every step of the way.

Tuning takes a lot of time and effort to get down properly. Don't expect you can sit through a class and you will know everything there is to know. For 99% of the people out there, in the long run it is a bit cheaper and more efficient to hire someone with experience to do the tuning.
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