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Old 04-23-2009, 03:30 AM   #1
2.5rs_Lover
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Default turbo charging 05 rs???

hi there. dont know if im posting this in the right spot. newbie here. but i was thinking a turbo charging my 05 rs but i dont have a slight clue about turbo charging. can anyone help me out with what i need to get? thank you.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:42 AM   #2
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now i dont know much about that whole thing but i have seen countless people ask and everyone tells them the same thing. just get a wrx cause the money your going to spend on doing a turbo set up is going to run you the same amount as getting a wrx cause the impreza isnt built for a turbo set up. people have said you can but youll only run like 4-6 psi or something along those lines. thats just what ive seen. hopefully someone will chime in with a more technical explanation.
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.5rs_Lover View Post
hi there. dont know if im posting this in the right spot. newbie here. but i was thinking a turbo charging my 05 rs but i dont have a slight clue about turbo charging. can anyone help me out with what i need to get? thank you.
There is your problem

don't even attempt to do it
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Old 04-23-2009, 07:10 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MENU View Post
There is your problem

don't even attempt to do it
+2

once you start reading youll either

a- not do it
b- get a wrx
c- go buck wild and do a turbo kit/swap
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:03 PM   #5
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There's lots of write ups on how to build a turbo EJ25 from a N/A RS. Most people end up using STI internals(pistons/crank/rods) and go from there. Lots of work to be done so you end up spending about as much if not more than the cost of swapping the motor from a WRX or STI.
There's lots of info on rs25.com about this kind of build. Id go over there and check it out.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:46 AM   #6
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enjoy your N/A when you are done with and want a turbo buy a WRX or STi
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Old 04-24-2009, 03:10 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by White 2.5rs View Post
+2

once you start reading youll either

a- not do it
b- get a wrx
c- go buck wild and do a turbo kit/swap
i might still want to turbo charge it depends what i have to do/spend $$$. i do wanna get a wrx but cant afford payment/insurance (still young ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythagreek View Post
There's lots of write ups on how to build a turbo EJ25 from a N/A RS. Most people end up using STI internals(pistons/crank/rods) and go from there. Lots of work to be done so you end up spending about as much if not more than the cost of swapping the motor from a WRX or STI.
There's lots of info on rs25.com about this kind of build. Id go over there and check it out.
thanks for the info. ill check them out.
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Old 04-24-2009, 04:04 AM   #8
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get an 02 wrx... insurance probably would cost only 300 more or so a year. if not then dont even bother since you have no idea about boosting an n/a. but to answer your question though. you need downpipe, uppipe, intake, intercooler, turbo, injectors, fuel pump, boost controller, engine management(most important cuz without it you'll blow up your car) and some others. and a whole bunch of new exhaust gaskets.
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:11 PM   #9
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boost controller?
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:35 PM   #10
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You're question is difficult to answer with the info given as theres many different routes....what route to take depends of a few things...

1. How much $ do you have to spend?
2. How much time do you want to sink into the car...Do you want a project car that you are always working on? Or do you just want to throw something in over a weekend (or even pay someone to do)...
3. What do you want to use the car for - do you rely on it as a DD? or can you afford downtime? (do you have an alternate way to get to where u need to go without huge inconvenience?)....
4. What are your HP goals?
5. Are you mechanically inclined or if not do you have the desire to learn a **** load by researching/reading to become so....So will you be doing the work yourself or getting a shop to do it?


answer those questions and we can help you figure out what to do.....

theres 3 ways you can go really:

- Bolt on low boost turbo kit - 200ish whp, $2000-3500
- Build the engine, turbo kit(home brew of course) - 300+ whp easy.. 3000-5000$...but a LOT of work
- Engine Swap - prices are all over the map depending on the engine....horsepower is all over the map too....

-Jefff
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Old 04-24-2009, 04:49 PM   #11
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Simply put...don't waste your money on a turbo for the rs motor. It just is not designed to handle forced induction. Granted that it's out there and it does *work*, it's just not woth it for the $ and the effort it takes to bolt it on. For the most part your compression ratio is too high (10:1) for turbo, and the block isn't solid enough. If you look at a WRX block and the RS block together (i have a pic somehwere i'll try to post it), you will notice that the RS block has alot of airspace around the cylender bore whereas the WRX block has none to beef up the wall around the bore.
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:34 PM   #12
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I would supercharge for less and still make as much power and be reliable or more than a turbo..no need to change oil as much unless u have a Vortex but other self lubricant chargers are awesome..plus when your ready to upgrade internals just bigger pulley and run relaible again with boost....
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treksofar View Post
Simply put...don't waste your money on a turbo for the rs motor. It just is not designed to handle forced induction. Granted that it's out there and it does *work*, it's just not woth it for the $ and the effort it takes to bolt it on. For the most part your compression ratio is too high (10:1) for turbo, and the block isn't solid enough. If you look at a WRX block and the RS block together (i have a pic somehwere i'll try to post it), you will notice that the RS block has alot of airspace around the cylender bore whereas the WRX block has none to beef up the wall around the bore.
First of an open EJ25 block will handle boosted HP to a lil over 400+ HP thats at the wheels so to say the block won't take it your info is totally wrong and and your wrx block is no different its only the STI block thats semi closed deck meaning you still have that space around the cyliners thats called water jackets to those that don't know...so unless you plan on going above 400 at the wheels alot more than a stock STI with mods its pointless. Most ca't even handle an STI let alone a 400 HP RS lol...I'm going with 350 with head work and cams after supercharger..and I'll be happy spanking STI's and other cars with that 350 to the wheels..an STI or that of my year 06-07 can't say that..they can't even say 260 to the wheels.... stock
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIsubi View Post
First of an open EJ25 block will handle boosted HP to a lil over 400+ HP thats at the wheels so to say the block won't take it your info is totally wrong and and your wrx block is no different its only the STI block thats semi closed deck meaning you still have that space around the cyliners thats called water jackets to those that don't know...so unless you plan on going above 400 at the wheels alot more than a stock STI with mods its pointless. Most ca't even handle an STI let alone a 400 HP RS lol...I'm going with 350 with head work and cams after supercharger..and I'll be happy spanking STI's and other cars with that 350 to the wheels..an STI or that of my year 06-07 can't say that..they can't even say 260 to the wheels.... stock
wha? im not arguing that the EJ25 motor will take the boost, i'm saying that EJ253 won't take it stock. If you want to turbo the motor thats fine but you got to drop the $ on new pistons, cams, rocker arms, valve springs, and piston rings in order to handle the forced induction efficiantly and safely. Even then, you're spending 7 -10 grand total, and you still may have issues down the road.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treksofar View Post
Simply put...don't waste your money on a turbo for the rs motor. It just is not designed to handle forced induction. Granted that it's out there and it does *work*, it's just not woth it for the $ and the effort it takes to bolt it on. For the most part your compression ratio is too high (10:1) for turbo, and the block isn't solid enough. If you look at a WRX block and the RS block together (i have a pic somehwere i'll try to post it), you will notice that the RS block has alot of airspace around the cylender bore whereas the WRX block has none to beef up the wall around the bore.

actually they have almost the same...
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:32 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jeff54 View Post
You're question is difficult to answer with the info given as theres many different routes....what route to take depends of a few things...

1. How much $ do you have to spend?
2. How much time do you want to sink into the car...Do you want a project car that you are always working on? Or do you just want to throw something in over a weekend (or even pay someone to do)...
3. What do you want to use the car for - do you rely on it as a DD? or can you afford downtime? (do you have an alternate way to get to where u need to go without huge inconvenience?)....
4. What are your HP goals?
5. Are you mechanically inclined or if not do you have the desire to learn a **** load by researching/reading to become so....So will you be doing the work yourself or getting a shop to do it?


answer those questions and we can help you figure out what to do.....

theres 3 ways you can go really:

- Bolt on low boost turbo kit - 200ish whp, $2000-3500
- Build the engine, turbo kit(home brew of course) - 300+ whp easy.. 3000-5000$...but a LOT of work
- Engine Swap - prices are all over the map depending on the engine....horsepower is all over the map too....

-Jefff

to answer your question in the way you ask me:

1) i have about $4-$5k saved up
2) i was gonna build it as an project for auto-cross
3) ^. i have another car i can use till its done. its nothing big to me.
4) my hp goals are some what around 220 since im planing on swaping out tranny for a wrx 5speed. from what i heard from subaru techs the wrx tranny can hold a max of 230hp without eatin the tranny or blowing it up down the long road. i do wanna do a 6speed but was told i have to do alot of work.
5) i do have the desire to learn. my co-worker gaved me a book on street turbocharging. told me its a really good book if id wanted to turbo charge my rs id have to read the book in order understand what i need before starting it. i started reading it today so far about: Internal combustion basic, Forced Induction basic and Pressure/Temperature and Airflow.




i was looking towards building the engine. dont really want to do a swap or any bolt on stuff.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:35 AM   #17
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that whole "the trannycan only hold so much" crap is bs

not only is "horsepower" an arguable # (ALL dynos are different, and HP is a made up unit) its all in your driving

i had 342whp on my stock rs tranny... didnt drive like an idiot and for the few hundred miles i had it turbo;d it worked fine
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Old 04-26-2009, 04:14 AM   #18
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And from what I have read the wrx trany is no stronger than a rs trans as far as physical strength of the gears and metal is concerned its just the gearing thats different and I would think the lower gearing of the RS trans would allow it to hold even more power than the wrx.
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Old 04-26-2009, 04:45 AM   #19
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The main differences between the RS and WRX trans besides FD ratios are in the clutch. The RS uses a push type clutch release fork and the WRX a pull type. Your RS trans will definitely hold up to the power. You just need to make sure and get the right clutch...ACT organic clutch with HD pressure plate is the best for swapped cars using the RS trans. Otherwise if ur gna use the WRX trans any clutch for a WRX will do. The way most people break their trannies is because of hard launches or banging through gears and not letting the synchros work. A common way of breaking gears comes from trying to force it into gear to quickly rather than letting the revs drop and at the right moment feeling it go into gear with no resistance.

And you're saying you dont want any bolt on stuff...Id consider turbocharging you're motor as bolting on some stuff. Just make sure that the supporting mods are there(fuel pump/injectors/ pistons/ rods/ crank) so that itll run to keep it from going POP! better to overcompensate in beefier internals and upgraded fuel delivery than build it all and wait for the weakest link make itself apparent.

Good luck!
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIsubi View Post
First of an open EJ25 block will handle boosted HP to a lil over 400+ HP thats at the wheels so to say the block won't take it your info is totally wrong and and your wrx block is no different its only the STI block thats semi closed deck meaning you still have that space around the cyliners thats called water jackets to those that don't know...so unless you plan on going above 400 at the wheels alot more than a stock STI with mods its pointless. Most ca't even handle an STI let alone a 400 HP RS lol...I'm going with 350 with head work and cams after supercharger..and I'll be happy spanking STI's and other cars with that 350 to the wheels..an STI or that of my year 06-07 can't say that..they can't even say 260 to the wheels.... stock
this man spits the truth...now the only problem with an open deck ej251 block under 400whp is the headgaskets.....use some ARP studs and you have nothing to worry about

Quote:
Originally Posted by treksofar View Post
wha? im not arguing that the EJ25 motor will take the boost, i'm saying that EJ253 won't take it stock. If you want to turbo the motor thats fine but you got to drop the $ on new pistons, cams, rocker arms, valve springs, and piston rings in order to handle the forced induction efficiantly and safely. Even then, you're spending 7 -10 grand total, and you still may have issues down the road.
7-10 grand is way too high....my first RS-T setup cost me 3500$...built right, standalone, rebuilt ej255 shortblock, 18G, 800CC injects, walbro, hydra, blah blah blah.....the engine ended up going when my turbo sucked in a bolt....also a problem with a mistake i made when rebuilding the block....

Quote:
Originally Posted by White 2.5rs View Post
that whole "the trannycan only hold so much" crap is bs

not only is "horsepower" an arguable # (ALL dynos are different, and HP is a made up unit) its all in your driving

i had 342whp on my stock rs tranny... didnt drive like an idiot and for the few hundred miles i had it turbo;d it worked fine
yes....but people also blow them with 250 awtq and non-idiotic driving...point is you have to be prepared to spend money on the tranny if you're going to be making well over 200 awtq.....you might be one of the lucky ones...but you cant bank on it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ioku View Post
And from what I have read the wrx trany is no stronger than a rs trans as far as physical strength of the gears and metal is concerned its just the gearing thats different and I would think the lower gearing of the RS trans would allow it to hold even more power than the wrx.

this is true....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.5rs_Lover View Post
to answer your question in the way you ask me:

1) i have about $4-$5k saved up
2) i was gonna build it as an project for auto-cross
3) ^. i have another car i can use till its done. its nothing big to me.
4) my hp goals are some what around 220 since im planing on swaping out tranny for a wrx 5speed. from what i heard from subaru techs the wrx tranny can hold a max of 230hp without eatin the tranny or blowing it up down the long road. i do wanna do a 6speed but was told i have to do alot of work.
5) i do have the desire to learn. my co-worker gaved me a book on street turbocharging. told me its a really good book if id wanted to turbo charge my rs id have to read the book in order understand what i need before starting it. i started reading it today so far about: Internal combustion basic, Forced Induction basic and Pressure/Temperature and Airflow.




i was looking towards building the engine. dont really want to do a swap or any bolt on stuff.

awesome! good budget, got a spare car, and realistic goals (a little conservative if you ask me)....and sounds like you're ready to start tearing **** apart!

the key to having a reliable, powerfull RS-T is the engine management....spend the 1800$ on the hydra......it is by far the best option for an RS-T....

for the block you can either rebuild your block with STi internals (will cost about 1000$, with new pumps, gasket set, etc etc...use sti oil pump)

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthrea...ht=build+motor

^ great thread there.....DIY that has all the info you need....

for your power goals leave the heads alone....maybe throw in some delta cam regrinds to help out a little (hell 200$ why not?)...but the stock heads will bring you to 300whp no problem....

as for piping, you have two choices, you can have an up and downpipe custom made to fit RS headers (or find one used)....look at the old ludespeed kits, subie chad stuff or the AVO kit for examples....pretty simple to have made.....this will also allow you to use whatever flanges you want and open up the turbo options....

or you can use WRX stuff....to do this you will need a wrx crossmember and water pump (to clear the header).....then use all wrx exhaust parts....be carefull with the up-pipe...some of the larger dia. up pipes will hit the head....you can space them to fit though....i know for a fact the perrin up-pipe works....i have a prosport header + uppipe....the uppipe touches the head but it works...not ideal but it works for now...i'll be upgrading to custom made up-pipe and a borg s360 soon .....

for fuel run wrx top feed injectors, you'll need to play with o-rings to get them to not leak....rallitek does sell a kit though...so you can give em a call....pick up a walbro as well....you'll also need to do the parallel fuel delivery mod (http://www.northursalia.com/modifica.../fuelrail.html) since the stock fuel hard lines dont hang out with the turbo nicely....

for an intake you *can* use a wrx inlet hose.....it's a tight fit on the ej251 intake manifold....not sure how it'll work with the ej253...better do some research on that.....

it's not completely necessary but you might also want to get some custom power steering lines as they will be tight fit with the up pipe

for turbo oil feed use the galley plug on pass side of the block (where people usually hook up oil press sensor)....for return you will need to tap your oil pan....for water i use the throttle body water lines....but there are other options...

for a turbo dont **** around with td04s.....get a good sized turbo....18G would be perfect for your power goals....wouldn't have to run much boost....maybe a 16G for a bit quicker spool....

all the info above is for ej251...i havent touched an ej253 but it should be 90% the same....just do some research

if you need any more info just ask....also read up on RS25....lots of good info there....at the end of the day a swap is easier for your goals.....cheaper maybe...but turboing the RS engine is a lot more fun to some people (like me).....it just depends how much work you want to put into the car

-Jefff
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:38 PM   #21
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I did this for around $600, but I did the welding and installing myself. And it utilizes the stock ECM, injectors, fuel pump, and 6 PSI boost. It is not idea but it works pretty well - 3 years & 40k miles later.



Here is my thread of the build-up

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=824400

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Old 04-26-2009, 01:10 PM   #22
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You should just go to town on suspension modifications. Swaybars/springs/struts/lots of new bushings for everthing. You'll enjoy your RS a whole lot more with those simple modifications.
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:04 PM   #23
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If you read to class rules in autoX you'll know that turboing your RS will bump you into a higher class. Most folks just invest in suspension and brakes and build their car according to what class they want to be in. before attempting to boost I would invest in suspension as testify stated, stay in STS class and have fun
There's an instructor at the AutoX here who has an RS coupe but with the suspension dialled in and stock motor pretty much aside from say an exhaust/intake and perhaps a tune. MY RS that is swapped puts out twice the power of his car and yet he still gets better times than me. All because of skill, and coilovers vs. my strut/spring setup. Proof positive that HP doesnt always make you faster. N/A cars actually do better at the autoX IMO
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:04 PM   #24
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sry....mac acting up.....

Last edited by jimmythagreek; 04-26-2009 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:05 PM   #25
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oops double post sorry

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