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Old 04-23-2009, 03:11 PM   #1
moxnix
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Default Grassroots Motorsports Extreme tire testing (June 2009)

From the June 2009 issue. I have not gotten my copy yet but this is being reported on other forums(miata.net) so I should have my copy in a day or two. Tires were tested in 15 inch sizes on a ST honda civic(Andy Hollis).

Tires sizes are 205/50/15 (RT-615, R1R, RE-11, XS), 195/50/15 (RE-01R), 195/55/15 (Z1 SS)
Quote:
Here is a summary of times from worst to first.

6th - Falken RT 615 Mean time: 35.302 Sec Quick time 35.125 Sec.
5th - Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec Mean time: 35.209 sec. Quick time 35.061
4th -Toyo Proxes R1R Mean time: 34.522 sec Quick Time 34.452 sec
3rd- Bridgestone RE-01R Mean time: 34.478 sec Quick Time 34.430 sec.
2nd- Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 Mean time: 34.266 Quick time 34.238 sec.
1st - Kumho ECSTA XS Mean time :34.170 Quick Time 34.030 sec.

All tires were shaved to 3/32 nd and test performed on an Autocross set up.
The Aug issue should have the other tires that were not out soon enough to make this test including the 225 Toyo, the RS3 and the AD08.
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:27 PM   #2
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Too bad they don't do testing with a heavy STU machine. Almost bought the XS too, but again don't know how much of this translates to the STEVOS.
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:40 PM   #3
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How many runs per tire? Did they publish all of the runs? The statistics nerd in me would like to figure out which tire has the tightest standard deviation.
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:00 PM   #4
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What about tire size variation? Seems like going from 205 to 195 is a 5% reduction in width and the difference between the XS and SS times is 3%.
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:31 PM   #5
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leecea View Post
What about tire size variation? Seems like going from 205 to 195 is a 5% reduction in width and the difference between the XS and SS times is 3%.
You're not going to get any meaningful correlation though...
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:39 PM   #7
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Interesting. just as piknockout pointed out, though, it would be interesting to see how these results translate to the heavier STU/STX machines.
So far I've seen promising runs with the direzza and R1R, but that's only on a regional level.
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piknockout View Post
Too bad they don't do testing with a heavy STU machine. Almost bought the XS too, but again don't know how much of this translates to the STEVOS.
IMHO, 1st through 4th positions in that test are all within the realm of "driver noise". 5th & 6th positions were definitely out of the hunt. No telling how they translate to a heavier car, but if anything the Kumho XS' should do even better as people who've run them have said they are very heat resistant.

P.S. Shawn actually started a thread? WTF?!!! Me and my post-whore self have started almost 100!
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:13 PM   #9
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The interesting point though is that the Dunlop has proven to be fast for the STU crowd, but apparently not so much for the ST(S) crowd. So that's what makes me question how well this test translates for STX/STU.

Well, at least the RE-11's are near the top. I would feel really stupid paying that much money for tires if they had ended in 5th/6th. But it does kind of make me wish I had tried the XS first. Such is life.
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:18 PM   #10
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In addition to being narrower than most the Z1 SS is also the tallest tire tested (.4" taller than the 205/50/15 tires according to specs) and on a car like the civic any significant acceleration zones will kill the taller tires.
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:20 PM   #11
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Looking at the tire size I almost wonder if the reduced contact patch and taller sidewall was what hurt the Z1 SS. Having run them against the RE01R in the same size on the same SM Street Tire car I can say I like the Z1 better.
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:27 PM   #12
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Ahh...forgot about the taller tire size on the Z1. That was more than likely the limiting factor. Which means that this test means nothing to most of us here.
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:31 PM   #13
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There's no common size between all the tires?

To be honest, I think you have to toss the 2 tires out of the test rather than run them in a different size. Throws too many variables in and creates too much speculation.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
There's no common size between all the tires?

To be honest, I think you have to toss the 2 tires out of the test rather than run them in a different size. Throws too many variables in and creates too much speculation.
Agreed. And not NT05s?
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:13 AM   #15
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Heh, just TRY to find NT-05's in a 15" size...
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:25 AM   #16
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I really do appreciate the time and effort that Grassroots and Andy put forth in putting doing ST tire tests, I know it's not easy or cheap to do every year.

-BUT-

It really would be nice if they'd start mixing up the vehicles and tire sizes a bit. I know ST and STS are pretty heavily subscribed classes, and having by Andy do the testing they've essentially got 2 fully prepped vehicles "in house" but STX/U are also very popular with different tire needs. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for them to track down a prepped STX/U car. The car owner, I'm sure, would be happy to get the inside scoop on tires, just have him sign a confidentiality agreement though, and they could keep a standard test driver to eliminate a variable.

I would love to see a rotation, 1 year, a light class car (ST/S) and the next year a heavy class car (STX/U) The last time I recall them doing street tire tests on something you'd find in STX they were on an unprepped WRX and a SpecV.

Oh well, at least I know I'll be able to get by at under $200 a tire again this year. My choices are now officially down to either stick with the Dunlops again or switch to Kumhos







.... unless those AD08s are REALLY fast
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:51 PM   #17
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Whew ... just ordered RE-11's a few minutes ago ... BEFORE seeing this report! ... for our Miata, 205/50/15

Our Dunlop Z-1's have been pretty wonderful ... especially under braking and at the limit ... almost R like. We ran 710's last year ... but ... we're slow, so nothing we say matters! Brian Peters tried out our car and took three seconds off our top time ... on a 70+ second FAST course ... chatting the entire time that the car was on it's bump stops, too low, needed more travel, shorter bump stops, etc.
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Old 04-25-2009, 12:00 AM   #18
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Dammit, more to think about...
I was all decided on the Dunlop Z1's for this season... this was a big step as I traditionally hate Dunlops.

Now I have to go back and consider the Kumho's...
most of their street tires turn into greasy slop when you get them hot. But than again, the 710 is the best R-compound DOT tire I have run on.

AHHHHH! I thought I was done with this speculation.
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Old 04-25-2009, 12:31 AM   #19
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I hope the AD08 doesn't turn out the be THE tire... Once again, it's the most expensive by quite a bit.

Hankook took themselves out of STX and STU by not offering the RS-3 in sizes friendly to those classes (no 235/40 or 245/40-17, so far). I suppose any 2WD cars in those classes that can fit 265 can use the 265/35-18. ST does get a 225/45-15 though...
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Old 04-25-2009, 12:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash View Post
I hope the AD08 doesn't turn out the be THE tire... Once again, it's the most expensive by quite a bit.
AD08 245/40R17 - $217
RE-11 245/40R17 - $214

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowend
Dammit, more to think about...
I was all decided on the Dunlop Z1's for this season... this was a big step as I traditionally hate Dunlops.

Now I have to go back and consider the Kumho's...
most of their street tires turn into greasy slop when you get them hot.
It's hard to read too much into the Z1SS finish in this test, not an ideal size on a car with different tire requirements than a heavier STX/U car. They're still fast and the results show it.

If the XS is anything like the MX, overheating and getting greasy won't be a problem.
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron B View Post
AD08 245/40R17 - $217
RE-11 245/40R17 - $214
I show $215 for the RE-11 in that size from TR, and there is a $100 rebate on a set of them...

For each set of 245/40-17,

Yokos are $868
Bridgestones are $760 (after $100 rebate)
Toyos are $692
Kumhos are $592
Dunlops are $590 (after a $50 rebate, unless you want the $75 Amazon gift card)
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:09 AM   #22
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^Damn - for that price, the Kumhos are a screamin' deal. Especially if they are still a good tire to have on a heavier STX/STU car.
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:28 AM   #23
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We have a number of very good ST drivers/cars. Ken Moto has been winning by over a second, race after race this year, including two National events ... using the Toyo's. The others are using either the RE-11 or also Toyo's.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:27 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash View Post
I show $215 for the RE-11 in that size from TR, and there is a $100 rebate on a set of them...

For each set of 245/40-17,

Yokos are $868
Bridgestones are $760 (after $100 rebate)
Toyos are $692
Kumhos are $592
Dunlops are $590 (after a $50 rebate, unless you want the $75 Amazon gift card)
Weird, price went up a dollar in 11 minutes...

Anyway though, with all the tires running so close in performance, the low priced Kumhos coming out on top in this test (as well as testing well for other people) and the Dunlops still scoring STU Tour and Pro wins there's NO WAY I'm shelling out $200+ a tire to not go any faster than I can with a <$160 tire.
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makofoto View Post
We have a number of very good ST drivers/cars. Ken Moto has been winning by over a second, race after race this year, including two National events ... using the Toyo's. The others are using either the RE-11 or also Toyo's.
Go figure, Bridgestone and Toyo are the only ones that pay money this year.

If only you could assume that the leaders were using the fastest stuff like you used to be able to...

Wouldn't it just chafe butts around the Solo world if a non-paying tire turned out to be faster?
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