Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday August 27, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-30-2009, 12:25 PM   #1
Moof
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 170170
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Yukon Territory
Vehicle:
2011 Ram Sport 4x4
Red

Default April 30th, 2009. Chrysler throws in the towel.

Chrysler LLC is expected to file for bankruptcy on Thursday after talks to restructure its debt with lenders broke down, a U.S. government official said. Despite intense negotiations over the past few weeks, Chrysler failed to gain the full support from its lenders that it needed to move forward with a restructuring and avoid the first-ever bankruptcy filing by a major U.S. automaker.

The Chapter 11 filing, which sources said would be done in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan, will send shock waves through the entire auto industry -- including Chrysler's rivals, suppliers, dealers and the many hundreds of thousands who rely on the industry for their livelihoods.
A statement from President Barack Obama and members of his autos task force on Chrysler's situation and the auto industry is scheduled for noon EDT.

The bankruptcy would signal that the Obama administration is prepared to play hardball with holdout bondholders rather than knuckle under to their demands.

The stance will likely set the tone for similar discussions with bondholders of General Motors Corp -- which is now on the clock to restructure its operations by the end of May.

This is not the first major government action with Chrysler. In 1980, President Jimmy Carter signed a bill providing Chrysler with more than $1 billion in loan guarantees.

"Bankruptcy is what they have been headed for in the past several months," said Mirko Mikelic, portfolio manager at Fifth Third Bank. "The biggest concern now is that the different stakeholders will be able to make the tough decisions they need to make.

Investors reacted positively to the news as the broad Standard & Poor's 500 index was up 1.5 percent. GM shares were up 4.4 percent and Ford Motor Co shares were up 9.7 percent on Thursday morning on the New York Stock Exchange.

FIAT STILL IN THE WORKS
A bankruptcy filing does not preclude a deal with Fiat. Chrysler has been seeking a rescue deal from the Italian automaker while also trying to finalize its debt agreement.
Before the bankruptcy news, signals about the discussions with Fiat were mixed. The Italian newspaper Corriere Della Serra reported on Thursday morning that a deal had been signed, but Fiat later denied this.
The debt restructuring talks have been spearheaded by the Obama administration's autos task force and former investment banker Steve Rattner.

In a bid to win over three fund firms that had spurned an offer to accept $2 billion in cash in exchange for writing off all of Chrysler's $6.9 billion in secured debt, U.S. officials sweetened the terms by throwing in another $250 million, people familiar with those discussions said.
In an earlier memo to employees obtained by Reuters, Chrysler Chief Executive Robert Nardelli had said reaching an agreement with lenders was the company's main focus.

Chrysler, majority-owned by Cerberus Capital Group, is among the car industry's laggards, but its plight reflects a slump in demand facing an industry whose $2.6 trillion annual revenue is equivalent to the GDP of France and which employs more than 9 million people.

HISTORY-MAKING
A Chrysler bankruptcy marks a key moment for the automaker, and for the struggling American manufacturing sector.
In 1925, Walter P. Chrysler established Chrysler Corp. Three years later, the company laid the cornerstone for the Chrysler Building, briefly the world's tallest building and still an unmistakable part of the Manhattan skyline.
On Wednesday, Obama said concessions by Chrysler's unions and its major bank lenders had made him more hopeful than a month ago that the struggling automaker could be made viable.

The automaker has won cost-cutting concessions from its unions in the United States and Canada and was on the brink of closing its deal with Fiat on Wednesday, a person involved in those negotiations told Reuters.
Putting the two car producers together would give the combined group annual sales of some 4.16 million vehicles, making it equal with Hyundai and behind Toyota, General Motors, Volkswagen and Ford.
Fiat Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne thinks a carmaker needs to produce at least 5.5 million cars a year to survive.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Moof is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 12:28 PM   #2
tylerzero
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112397
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: COLORADO
Vehicle:
'06 non-turbogasm
wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moof View Post
The bankruptcy would signal that the Obama administration is prepared to play hardball with holdout bondholders rather than knuckle under to their demands.
tylerzero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 12:34 PM   #3
justincredible
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83633
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: The Mountains
Vehicle:
2012 bright green
box

Default

I hope this doesn't negatively effect jeep.
I have loved Jeeps since I was 7.
justincredible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 12:35 PM   #4
Obnoxio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44009
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in an old barn
Vehicle:
2001 Toyota Tundra
red/bird poop

Default

And if FIAT had any sense at all, they would run as fast and far away from this fiasco as possible. Chrysler shot themselves in thier own foot. Denying warranty coverage, continuing to buy sub-par transmission and computer controls, all manner of stuff. Their products have been worse than GM, Ford or anybody else for at least 15 years. Fiat would be insane to do a partnership with that white elephant.

Sell Jeep off to the Indians or Chineese, kill the Viper, focus on the minivan and the MB Van you still manage to hold onto, and go from there.
Obnoxio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 12:51 PM   #5
Masterauto
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 198376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
X5D Subaru BRZ
Nissan GT-R

Default

I'm not a Chrysler fan but think this will have bad effect on all business and workers in USA. This is just the start of dark times to come. If you think you are immune to this economy,, think hard again
Masterauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 12:56 PM   #6
Hazdaz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 14611
Join Date: Jan 2002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obnoxio View Post
And if FIAT had any sense at all, they would run as fast and far away from this fiasco as possible... Fiat would be insane to do a partnership with that white elephant.
I have to disagree with that assessment.
Building up a brand new US dealership/support/distribution network alone could potentially cost more than simply buying up the remains of Chrysler. And I am not even talking about the fact that ultimately Fiat would want/need to build cars here - Chrysler has a ton of spare capacity that would be dirt cheap compared to building brand new plants.


BTW, when was this officially announced today? cuz the market was flying high, but now is crashing down on this morning's gains.
Hazdaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 01:09 PM   #7
design1stcode2nd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112178
Join Date: Apr 2006
Default

It was announced at Noon eastern.
design1stcode2nd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 01:23 PM   #8
JC
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 692
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
2006 Pontiac GTO M6
Triumph Street Triple R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterauto View Post
I'm not a Chrysler fan but think this will have bad effect on all business and workers in USA. This is just the start of dark times to come. If you think you are immune to this economy,, think hard again
It's a natural cleansing of bad companies from the economy to make way for better new ones. It will be painful in the short term but beneficial in the long term. Of course Chrysler will live on for a while before it finally sells Jeep and closes up shop.
JC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 01:25 PM   #9
Indocti Discant
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138000
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: et ament meminisse periti
Vehicle:
L Bo Hope you meet
the spirit in the sky

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerzero View Post
lets throw all semblance of law out the window.

Indocti Discant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 01:51 PM   #10
amanichen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 163999
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Centreville, VA
Vehicle:
07 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by owace View Post
lets throw all semblance of law out the window.

What law? The government isn't required by law to bail out private industry. Chrysler needs major restructuring to be competitive, and they're so entrenched that it's probably not going to happen any other way than bankruptcy.
amanichen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 02:00 PM   #11
Italiano
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2137
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT, USA -what am I doing here?
Vehicle:
a 6spd Manual
Acura

Default

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/30/news...ion=2009043009



Quote:
(CNNMoney.com) -- Chrysler LLC filed for bankruptcy Thursday. But a deal has been reached to combine the company with Fiat in order to allow Chrysler to stay in business.
Quote:
Chrysler announced that most manufacturing operations will be temporarily shutdown on Monday, May 4. Normal production is not due to resume until the transaction with Fiat is completed.
Quote:
...the filing will not mean the halt of operations or liquidation for the troubled 85-year old automaker. Instead, the administration expects to use the bankruptcy process to join Chrysler with Italian automaker Fiat...

.....also posted here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chrysl...J5c2xlcmZpbGU-
Italiano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 02:01 PM   #12
Indocti Discant
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138000
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: et ament meminisse periti
Vehicle:
L Bo Hope you meet
the spirit in the sky

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amanichen View Post
What law? The government isn't required by law to bail out private industry. Chrysler needs major restructuring to be competitive, and they're so entrenched that it's probably not going to happen any other way than bankruptcy.
the fact that rights of first lien holders are being run over by what obama wants to do.
Indocti Discant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 02:06 PM   #13
amanichen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 163999
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Centreville, VA
Vehicle:
07 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by owace View Post
the fact that rights of first lien holders are being run over by what obama wants to do.
Chrysler got billions in taxpayer money. This is one of the strings attached. Beggars can't be choosers.
amanichen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 02:09 PM   #14
onelove221
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 118781
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Washington, DC
Vehicle:
2005 Cadillac CTS-V
Laser Red

Default

Wow,

No one could have predicted that running a car company through the private equity meatgrinder would end in disaster.

Oh and how about the supreme irony of a company called 'CEREBUS' Capital management running a functioning (if marginal) company into a ditch.

/snark off
onelove221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 02:25 PM   #15
JC
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 692
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
2006 Pontiac GTO M6
Triumph Street Triple R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amanichen View Post
Chrysler got billions in taxpayer money. This is one of the strings attached. Beggars can't be choosers.
That has nothing to do with the lien holders. However, the rule of law has not been overturned (yet). If it was just the administration forcing it's way they would have forced the bondholders to take the deal and not had Chrysler go into bankruptcy. Which is not what happened.
JC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 02:32 PM   #16
amanichen
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 163999
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Centreville, VA
Vehicle:
07 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC View Post
That has nothing to do with the lien holders. However, the rule of law has not been overturned (yet). If it was just the administration forcing it's way they would have forced the bondholders to take the deal and not had Chrysler go into bankruptcy. Which is not what happened.
You're drifting off topic. Owace was referring to what he thought as unjust government interference in private industry was breaking some sort of "law." Which law(s) have been broken yet?
amanichen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 02:35 PM   #17
Indocti Discant
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138000
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: et ament meminisse periti
Vehicle:
L Bo Hope you meet
the spirit in the sky

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amanichen View Post

So, basically the investors were looking to get rich using taxpayer money.

no it was the TARP lenders (who have received taxpayer money) who agreed to the deal., and the non TARP lenders said no f'this no way the jr creditors should get more than us. No way were they looking for more taxpayer money.

Frankly I am very disappointed in the manner Obama phrased this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amanichen View Post
You're drifting off topic. Owace was referring to what he thought as unjust government interference in private industry was breaking some sort of "law." Which law(s) have been broken yet?
none as yet, i never said any laws were broken, just that it seems as if they are going to be completely overlooked, and as a result those trying to exercise their rights are being vilified.
Indocti Discant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 06:45 PM   #18
Subaruist
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14875
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: SoCal - Chino Hills
Vehicle:
Dear Soup...@_@
94 FD3S

Default

government getting their 6B back?
Subaruist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 07:50 PM   #19
su-be3
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 78702
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Waterford, NY
Vehicle:
2004 BAJA Turbo
Frost Pearl White

Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subaruist View Post
government getting their 6B back?
Yeah, and you gotta better chance of seeing God, first!
Keep it under 90, folks!
su-be3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 09:01 PM   #20
amdmaxx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31665
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Northern NJ, USA
Vehicle:
2006 Saab 9-2x Aero
Black

Default

I dont understand why government throwing them 8 BILLION dollars to go bankrupt.. Let them die on their own and restructure..
No other business gets this kind of treatment..
amdmaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 09:42 PM   #21
Len
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39937
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
2011 328i 6MT
LMB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
I dont understand why government throwing them 8 BILLION dollars to go bankrupt.. Let them die on their own and restructure..
No other business gets this kind of treatment..
Except for Wall Street, which gets about 1000 times better treatment.
Len is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 09:50 PM   #22
JC
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 692
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
2006 Pontiac GTO M6
Triumph Street Triple R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Len View Post
Except for Wall Street, which gets about 1000 times better treatment.
And agriculture.
JC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2009, 11:03 PM   #23
Indocti Discant
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138000
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: et ament meminisse periti
Vehicle:
L Bo Hope you meet
the spirit in the sky

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
I dont understand why government throwing them 8 BILLION dollars to go bankrupt.. Let them die on their own and restructure..
No other business gets this kind of treatment..
and how do they do that without DIP financing?
Indocti Discant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 02:49 AM   #24
Hazdaz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 14611
Join Date: Jan 2002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC View Post
And agriculture.
And about 6 years ago, the Airline Industry... and the Insurance Industry.
Hazdaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 07:25 AM   #25
Obnoxio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44009
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in an old barn
Vehicle:
2001 Toyota Tundra
red/bird poop

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post
I have to disagree with that assessment.
Building up a brand new US dealership/support/distribution network alone could potentially cost more than simply buying up the remains of Chrysler. And I am not even talking about the fact that ultimately Fiat would want/need to build cars here - Chrysler has a ton of spare capacity that would be dirt cheap compared to building brand new plants.


BTW, when was this officially announced today? cuz the market was flying high, but now is crashing down on this morning's gains.

Only thing is, your average US auto buyer isnt going to be interested in a Fiat. You would have as much luck marketing a Peugeot or Citroen over here right now.
Obnoxio is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OT Cooks: What else should I throw in the crock pot with the pot roast (making BBQ) plunk10 Off-Topic 29 11-27-2007 10:18 PM
October 30th, 2006....A day in the life of boosted84wagonmonster boosted84wagonmonster Off-Topic 54 10-30-2006 06:03 PM
Pakistan Throws in the Towel Janq Off-Topic 25 09-05-2006 04:19 PM
Stumped on power issue - throwing in the towel! wrx2k4blue Car Audio, Video & Security 14 09-20-2004 04:22 PM
April 30th.. For those going to the autocross... check in Fish New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 0 04-29-2000 06:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.