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Old 04-30-2009, 02:06 PM   #1
silver_spyder
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Default bad times for stage II?

So I'm starting to think I have something wrong with my car. It's stage II 93oct (Cobb AP v2)tuned (topspeed) with a Invidia TBE. Most of my runs look like this:

R/T .317
60 1.8
330 5.655
1/8 8.719
MPH 80.30
1000 .000
1/4 13.632
MPH 101.18

And

R/T .308
60 1.8
330 5.612
1/8 8.672
MPH 81.75
1000 .000
1/4 13.587
MPH 101.06

Is it just me or does that look really slow for a stage II STi? Looks like most stage II's are in the 12's. My 60ft doesn't look great I know, but it looks like my problem is on the back end of the track. The dyno when it was tuned was 305hp and 370tq (I know the tq sounds high for the mods, even topspeed said it was high). The car doesn't feel super bad or anything, but I don;t drive it hard often. Anyone have any idea's? I have gone 2 days now, and numbers are the same. The second day I had a different tank of gas, added octane bosster, and had re-applied the maps just to make sure. Didn't do better . Sorry, I know it's hard enough to troubleshoot a car, let alone take shots in the dark about just some numbers over the internet. I wouldn't ask, but I'm hours away from a shop that can spell Subaru. Thank for any idea's or comments.
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:09 PM   #2
ChandlerWRX06
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Yeah there is something wrong with your car.

an OTS map.

its safe and wont knock. . . but they suck IMO

ive used them and then went opensource. youre doing decent times, its the map.
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChandlerWRX06 View Post
Yeah there is something wrong with your car.

an OTS map.

its safe and wont knock. . . but they suck IMO

ive used them and then went opensource. youre doing decent times, its the map.
He is topspeed tuned from what I read.

Track conditions make a huge difference too. How hot was it and it looks like you need help on your 1st-3rd shifting. Your 60' isn't bad and you 1/8th mile time is pretty bad for the trap and 60'. I was able to pull 7.9 60's with a 81-82 trap and trapped 105.xx with a 12.7 on my tune. How were you shifting etc.
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:21 PM   #4
the suicidal eggroll
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Looks like it's down on power for some reason. When I went to the track a while back I was stage 2 + header + APS TMIC. I was using an OTS Cobb Stage 2 map, so not even protuned.

60': 1.68
1/8: 8.20 @ 82.4
1/4: 12.91 @ 104.9

Just for comparison's sake
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:22 PM   #5
silver_spyder
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It was about 80-85 both days. I shifted at redline. I tried doing a run shifting at 6k rpm's since I saw a boost drop between 6-7k, but that run turned into a 14 .
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Old 04-30-2009, 02:49 PM   #6
Illusive
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either get some data logs and send em to topspeed or compression test the car.

its def down on power from your traps, could be detonation or a hurt motor.
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Old 05-01-2009, 05:40 AM   #7
silver_spyder
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Your very right Illusive. I can guess the issues till the cows come home, I need data. I'll do a compression test on the car as soon as I can. Seeing how I have the ever famous 07 model, I have a very bad feeling how this is going to turn out. I have 20k on my motor, just that's about the lifespan on good old #4 ringland. I think this is the beginning of the story that ends "he then turned the gun on himself" (just joking of course).
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:34 PM   #8
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driver???
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06-wrx-tr View Post
driver???
Me thinks so too. Many are quick to blame the car when the driver is the problem. Any of your buddies better drivers? Have someone else with more experience try. Not all tracks/drivers/stage 2 cars are the same.
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:53 PM   #10
the suicidal eggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06-wrx-tr View Post
driver???
Unless he sucks at shifting the trap would be higher. Usually bad driver just = bad launch, which will hurt the ET but leave the trap speed more or less alone. With that much power he should be trapping 107+, he would have to be HORRIBLE at shifting to drop 6 mph off of his traps.
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06-wrx-tr View Post
driver???
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronmsadler View Post
Me thinks so too. Many are quick to blame the car when the driver is the problem. Any of your buddies better drivers? Have someone else with more experience try. Not all tracks/drivers/stage 2 cars are the same.
He got a 1.9 60', which isn't that bad. Still the trap says it all, you can't suck at shifting that bad. Even then you should still trap higher than a stage 1 sti with all that power.
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:44 PM   #12
Badler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Unless he sucks at shifting the trap would be higher. Usually bad driver just = bad launch, which will hurt the ET but leave the trap speed more or less alone. With that much power he should be trapping 107+, he would have to be HORRIBLE at shifting to drop 6 mph off of his traps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k04sti View Post
He got a 1.9 60', which isn't that bad. Still the trap says it all, you can't suck at shifting that bad. Even then you should still trap higher than a stage 1 sti with all that power.
All i'm saying is there are some variables. Could be the track. This is why I was curious to what others run there too. Out here at Fontana for example, most stage 2 STi's are NOT trapping 107+. More like 104~. The track just sucks...
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:49 PM   #13
the suicidal eggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronmsadler View Post
All i'm saying is there are some variables. Could be the track. This is why I was curious to what others run there too. Out here at Fontana for example, most stage 2 STi's are NOT trapping 107+. More like 104~. The track just sucks...
104 is pretty typical for a stage 2 STi with an OTS map (270-280 whp), at least here in SA. He is protuned though, with 305 whp, that will trap much higher than 104.
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:49 PM   #14
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Yeah... the track could have a big effect for sure.

The difference between New England Dragway (NH) and Moroso (FL) was almost 5 tenths on my car iirc. Id have to dig the old post up to be sure, but I know it was a huge difference.


That being said I ran 13.0@104 bone stock in my 04... so ah.... ya Id be
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:53 PM   #15
Badler
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OP, was there a headwind? Nightime, daytime? Temps? Do you have 20" spinners? What do others run there?
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:53 PM   #16
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Was this a 1/4mile tractor pull?
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:56 PM   #17
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When are you shifting?
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Old 05-01-2009, 03:15 PM   #18
Steve.804
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what kind of boost are you making at redline?
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:22 PM   #19
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Something is not right, with that power you shoud be trapping 109-110.

Doug@Topspeed
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:34 PM   #20
silver_spyder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronmsadler View Post
OP, was there a headwind? Nightime, daytime? Temps? Do you have 20" spinners? What do others run there?
No wind at all. Nightime. About 80-85 F. And just the stock 17" bbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronmsadler View Post
When are you shifting?
At redline, 7k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
what kind of boost are you making at redline?
18 psi to 6k, falls down 14-15psi @ 7k
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:13 PM   #21
AntiochCali
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Wow, your 60' times are okay, really...it's your trap speed that I wonder about, should be over 110.

What is the elevation at that tracK?

The only things I can think of, is that either you are not flooring it, or you are shifting too soon, or too late and letting fuel cut kill your trap speed.

Good Luck.
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Old 05-02-2009, 03:13 AM   #22
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60 fts are decent if you're a new racer - are you using any launch control? are you building boost at the line? - be sure you are flat foot shifting, can make an EASY .3 - .5 difference in time. Your trap speed is inline with your times. Also if you are lifting your clutch foot, and are a slow shifter your car is completely coming off of boost - if you are using an accessport, be sure flat foot shifting is enabled and is set to at least 5500 if not 6000... you want to keep the revs up to keep the turbo at least partially spooled.


FWIW my car is easily an 11 second car and I can only drive it to low 12s, best i've hit is a 12.1@118 that was with a 1.67 60ft - your stage 2 car should be SUPER low 13s if it's wicked hot, or high to high mid 12s...

also you are shifting too high - look at your dyno charts (if you are protuned you should have them) you should be shifting shortly after your power starts to fall off because you want to be in the next gear IN The powerband... so on a stock turbo your car probably hits it's peaks somewhere in the 5000s - shortshift around 6k to be back in your powerband. Wrapping it out to redline only gives you the best times if your peak power is made at redline (big turbo cars)

last and not least... the driver mod. Practice will bring better times, and a lot of it will be how willing you are to beat on your car... AWD launches are violent, even more violent if you are using some type of launch control, flat foot shifting is also pretty violent for the car, but will yield much much faster times.

-Z
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Old 05-02-2009, 03:16 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Unless he sucks at shifting the trap would be higher. Usually bad driver just = bad launch, which will hurt the ET but leave the trap speed more or less alone. With that much power he should be trapping 107+, he would have to be HORRIBLE at shifting to drop 6 mph off of his traps.
This isn't my experience at all - I shift fine, just not super fast... my traps are all over the place, but fall in line with my times... 12.6 or 12.7 and i'm trapping 106-108, 12.1 @ 118, 12.3 @ 116, the traps seem inline with his times, if not even a little bit fast for his times.

All I'm saying is crappy shifting and not understanding how to keep in the powerband can certainly lead to low traps as well as low ETs (i.e. running it up to 7k on his car is probably not helping)
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Old 05-02-2009, 04:03 AM   #24
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^ what do you mean? i take mine all the way up to 7k, i shift the **** out of my car. i have the cobb ap V1 running the stg 2 93 map. hks fmic, invidia catless bellmouth downpipe, greddy ti-c exhaust and, an spt intake and i ran 12.9 @ 107.8 with a 1.8 sixty ft. no lauch control. oh and we're 3000 ft above sea level at firebird racway outside of eagle idaho
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochCali View Post
What is the elevation at that tracK?
It's around 140ft at Darlington, SC

I wasn't flat foot shifting or boost building at the line. I tried a run shifting at 6k rpm (where the boost was failing off), but that just got me a 14 sec run.
So do you guys think it's my shifting/driving? Or should I make the 5 hour drive to ATL and have topspeed dyno it to see if it's a car issue?
Thank you all so much for all your input, the track I go to is mostly v8's (the track folks just call me "the import") so as kind as they are, their not much help in this matter.
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