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Old 05-05-2009, 10:51 AM   #1
darknightohio
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Default Unbelievable: German Car Sales Up Again, +19.4% in April



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Whereas most markets in the world are seeing double digit percentage drops in car sales throughout the year (U.S. sales were down 37.4% in April), in Germany, the market continues to respond widely to the government's incentive scheme to scrap old cars and buy new ones that was introduced in February. Following a 40 percent leap in car sales in March to around 401,000 units, new car registrations rose by 19.4 percent in April, to about 380,000 units.



According to the data provided from the VDIK car importers association, new car sales in Germany during the first four months of the year are at their best level since the record year of 1999.


The incentive scheme pays owners 2,500 or about $3,370 to scrap vehicles at least nine years old if they go and buy a new car from any automaker in exchange. Evidently, seeing the success of the measure , the German government decided to extend the scheme until the end of year.


What's more, the scheme has also significant environmental benefits as older vehicles with higher CO2 emissions are being replaced by newer, cleaner and of course, more fuel efficient models. According to VDIK President Volker Lange, CO2 emissions from the cars registered in Germany during the first quarter of the year were down by around 6.5% over a year ago.

Via: Forbes
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/05...-up-again.html
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:55 AM   #2
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German car sales are up in Germany? Shocking
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:07 AM   #3
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I heard a report on NPR about this, this morning. They were talking about the $3,370 incentive. They've had over 1 million people apply for it, as I recall.

I really don't think their market is stellar right now... if it were, they wouldn't have the incentive for buying newer/greener cars. It's a controversial approach anyway. That said, their market I think (from what I know of it anyway--which isn't much) is better than most, at the moment.
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:19 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by scrapiron7 View Post
German car sales are up in Germany?
If you mean Opel than yes, this is not helping BMW or MB really though
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:50 AM   #5
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So this is costing German taxpayers $3 billion, right? And who benefits? Mostly the car companies and better-off people who can afford to buy new cars.
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:58 AM   #6
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I have no problem with that, Mike. I would wager that when car companies do well, they tend to keep their employee's. I like to look at both sides.

Also, keep in mind, its these 'better-off' people that probably paid far more of that 3 billion dollars tax than the 'less better-off' people.

Never forget, you cant help the poor by destroying the rich.
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
So this is costing German taxpayers $3 billion, right? And who benefits? Mostly the car companies and better-off people who can afford to buy new cars.
Much less. Remember there's a 19% sales tax. If the new car is ~15k Euros, the sales tax pays for the rebate. In essence you only lose the sales tax income on cars that would have sold even without the rebate.
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:49 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by scrapiron7 View Post
German car sales are up in Germany? Shocking
Actually, this would be a big deal for them. When I was in Germany in March, they were quite concerned about the local auto market which was quite soft and not doing very well. They likened it to the US market.

It was a big deal for our business associates that the automotive industry wasn't doing well in Germany (even for local sales) since our business is in the electronics industry (printed circuit lamination) and most of the German companies making printed circuit boards are making them for the local automotive industry.

Especially Opel was a concern.

On the other hand, I was quite surprised when we went to the BMW factory in Munich (which makes 3-Series models) and it was pumping out cars pretty well for being in an economic slump. Then again, the Munich factory builds 3-ers for the entire world, and a large number of the ones coming off the line were RHD meaning British or Japan destination. Also a high percentage were diesels and stripper base models (steel wheels, cloth seats, manual transmission) which we don't get in the US at all.

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Old 05-05-2009, 01:33 PM   #9
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What do they do with these "old" cars - seriously, my car is 9 years old and running strong. Do they recycle them for parts, or do they just throw 'em in the junkyard? If the latter, then it would seem to be a fairly short sighted program.
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:20 PM   #10
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^^The article says they scrap them. So basically they are paying people to destroy cars that are still usable. Presumably people will only do this if the car is worth less than $3,370, but a $3000 car may still have a lot of life left in it.

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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I have no problem with that, Mike. I would wager that when car companies do well, they tend to keep their employee's. I like to look at both sides.

Also, keep in mind, its these 'better-off' people that probably paid far more of that 3 billion dollars tax than the 'less better-off' people.

Never forget, you cant help the poor by destroying the rich.
OK, fine, but it still seems rather circular. I don't see any net benefit to the economy.
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:22 PM   #11
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Seems like the US is pondering a similar plan.

-CZ

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PORTLAND, Ore. The U.S. government, now a major partner in the U.S. automotive industry thanks to bailout efforts, wants you to cash in that clunker on a new set of wheels - and they are willing to pay you to do it.
The federal government may spend more billions to get you to the showroom floor and into a new car.

But will it work?

KATU News talked to car buyers and sellers about two proposed plans that would apply to the price of a car sitting on a dealer's lot right now - and if prospective buyers would be willing to go for it.
The competing plans, one in the U.S. Senate and the other in the House, are aimed at meeting several goals: getting old, inefficient cars off the road, getting drivers into new (and hopefully American-made) cars that get better mileage, which could drive down the demand for foreign oil and curb pollution.
The possible boost to the beleaguered U.S. and worldwide auto industry is obvious.
The Senate plan gives buyers vouchers of up to $4,500 for scrapping their old car, which would have to get 18 mpg or less. Buyers could use the vouchers to buy any car from any manufacturer.
The House plan ups the voucher to $5,500 and only stipulates that the car be 8 years old or older. However, it mandates that the buyer purchase an American-made car that gets at least 27 mpg, or a truck that gets 24 mpg.
Jason Koehnke, the owner of Power Auto Group, highlighted one of the cars that would qualify for the Senate deal, a Kia Spectra that sells for around $16,000.
But coupled with current rebates and the government voucher plan, the price of the car could drop to as low as $8,000 out the door.

"Before you negotiate any discounts or anything like that - you're looking at 50 percent off," Koehnke said.
David Withnell of the Withnell Motor Company said the vouchers make for a great deal even before any negotiations take place.
"Bring in your Olds Cutlass and you'd have a nice little down payment, Withnell added, saying the vouchers could knock as much as $100 per month off a car payment.
But drivers in old, inefficient, high-mileage vehicles can be hard to sway.
Paul McKenna, driver of a 1997 Honda, said he needs more persuasion.
"I figure a new car would probably be $20,000. With a $5,000 credit, Im still paying $15,000. So that's more than I would want to spend on a car, McKenna said.
Gary Cohen, driver of a 2000 Honda, said what many prospective car buyers are thinking in todays economy: "Sounds like a good idea, but I can't afford it. In my circumstance, due to the economy, its out of the question."
Others objected to the program overall. If we're scrapping all of these older vehicles, then we're burning through more natural resources than we're saving," Scott Koch of Salem said.

Still, car dealers say they need the traffic, and the "cash for clunkers" programs could literally drive buyers into dealerships.
"I think what it will do, is people will then consider when they perhaps weren't going to consider making a purchase, dealer David Withnell said.

Germany has a similar "cash for clunkers" program, and it has reportedly increased auto sales there by 20 percent.

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Old 05-05-2009, 02:52 PM   #12
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What do they do with these "old" cars - seriously, my car is 9 years old and running strong. Do they recycle them for parts, or do they just throw 'em in the junkyard? If the latter, then it would seem to be a fairly short sighted program.
They take the good parts and crush the rest.
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:02 PM   #13
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And now, in the news is the USA plan of "cash for clunkers"

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Barack Obama and Democratic lawmakers reached agreement on Tuesday on a legislative proposal designed to stimulate U.S. auto sales, which have fallen to near 30-year lows.
The one-year plan crafted by members of the U.S. House of Representatives would offer vouchers worth up to $4,500 for owners to replace their less fuel efficient vehicles for models that get better gas mileage.
The goal of the "cash for clunkers" legislation is to sell 1 million vehicles.
"By stimulating consumer demand for new vehicles, this proposal will directly benefit domestic autoworkers and automotive manufacturers, which have arguably been hardest hit by the current economic downturn," said Rep. John Dingell, a Michigan Democrat and staunch industry ally.
House Majority leader Steny Hoyer has embraced the proposal and said in an interview with Reuters in April that the measure would be acted upon quickly once proposed.
(Reporting by Matt Spetalnick, John Crawley and Rick Cowan; Editing by Richard Chang)

my gripe, is just, because the car is 9 years old or older, the us government thinks your car is a gas hog. Well, my 91 civic hatch gets 38-39mpg, my 85 BRAT gets about 26mpg and my 83 GL Wagon Subaru gets about 28mpg. Not many cars on the road, with the simplicity and AWD can do that, even a brand new honda doesnt achieve 38 mpg like my 91, unless i go to hybrid. Hybrids cost 19k +, and for me to only get 4500 for my not so clunker, to then only get 4 mpg better, that is just silly. when i do the math, to get 4 mpg better, it will cost me 15g more. that is not very good, plus the price of liability on a old car vs full coverage on a new car, its a lose lose for most.
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:11 PM   #14
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OK, fine, but it still seems rather circular. I don't see any net benefit to the economy.
The psychological effect is important. The GDP in Germany or the US has decreased by what? 4%? Yet car sales are off by like 40%. There's still plenty of money in the economy, but people hold off on big purchases because they fear things may get worse, and that's what actually makes things worse. You don't want to let this crisis turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:30 PM   #15
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What a waste of resources.
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Old 05-05-2009, 04:35 PM   #16
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^^yup

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Others objected to the program overall. “If we're scrapping all of these older vehicles, then we're burning through more natural resources than we're saving," Scott Koch of Salem said.
Not only that, destroying cars that are still worth something is no better than setting old houses on fire to stimulate the construction industry. You are actually reducing the net value of goods in the economy.

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The psychological effect is important. The GDP in Germany or the US has decreased by what? 4%? Yet car sales are off by like 40%. There's still plenty of money in the economy, but people hold off on big purchases because they fear things may get worse, and that's what actually makes things worse. You don't want to let this crisis turn into a self-fulfilling prophe
I don't really buy this. People can tell the difference between a real recovery and a short-term gimmick.
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Old 05-05-2009, 04:36 PM   #17
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They take the good parts and crush the rest.
That's cool then I'm all for it. The US plan would require some more thought - I'm not convinced the mileage restriction is a good thing. As someone else mentioned, it rewards those who bought gas guzzlers in the past. If the sole purpose was environmental then yes it's good; but if they saw this as a way to jump start the economy as well, then I think the mileage limitation should be taken out or be much more liberal.
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:49 PM   #18
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Fine... the US wants me in a new car, then I'll just get the GXP!
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:05 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
^^yup



Not only that, destroying cars that are still worth something is no better than setting old houses on fire to stimulate the construction industry. You are actually reducing the net value of goods in the economy.



I don't really buy this. People can tell the difference between a real recovery and a short-term gimmick.
I totally agree with you on this one MIke, but the average American is truly pretty dumb, and only think in terms of a few months ahead at most. They hear they can get money from the government for a new car, the sheep will flock to dealerships.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:11 AM   #20
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^^Possibly, but that doesn't actually help the economy in the long run.

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They take the good parts and crush the rest.
Unlikely; most will probably just be crushed.
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:15 PM   #21
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I totally agree with you on this one MIke, but the average American is truly pretty dumb, and only think in terms of a few months ahead at most. They hear they can get money from the government for a new car, the sheep will flock to dealerships.
True - very true.

As for my 93 gas guzzler- going to keep it till US auto choices include a similar sized and capable vehicle that gets excelent milege. So far the choices and prices don't make it a financially smart choice to dump a paid for - and mechanically fine car for a 30K bill. At the current rate we see HP over milege in all the new vehicles I'll have the old gas guzzler another 5+ years. During which time it will cost me hardly anything even if we see $5 gas again.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:04 PM   #22
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Unlikely; most will probably just be crushed.
Tha junkyards can decide that. If anything is worth pulling, why wouldn't they?
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:57 PM   #23
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German car sales are up in Germany? Shocking


hahaha
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:31 PM   #24
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Tha junkyards can decide that. If anything is worth pulling, why wouldn't they?
Junkyards now crush most of the cars they get in; they only save ones with high demand for parts.
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:14 AM   #25
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Junkyards now crush most of the cars they get in; they only save ones with high demand for parts.
It's not a question of saving the whole car, German junkyards don't really keep any cars around because land is too expensive for that. They get them in, remove harmful substances, parts worth pulling and then they go to the press. It'd be silly not to pull parts that they can still sell.
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