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Old 05-05-2009, 12:27 PM   #1
STi-MAN
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Default abs or threshold braking?

I was talking to some friends last night about braking, was wondering how many of you at the track mash the brakes engaging abs before a turn.. and how many threshold brake before abs engages?

personally i dont engage abs.
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:41 PM   #2
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Threshold.... ABS is not race.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:11 PM   #3
FuJi K
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I have no ABS, I have to practice braking on the edge all the time. And it depends how you're entering the corner and setting up for the next corner and so on. Sometimes you're Braking into the corner to setup for a quick turn the other direction depending what track it is, which is the fun stuff!
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:39 PM   #4
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Say No to ABS!
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:52 PM   #5
generalee69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
I was talking to some friends last night about braking, was wondering how many of you at the track mash the brakes engaging abs before a turn.. and how many threshold brake before abs engages?

personally i dont engage abs.

Like FuJi noted, depends on the corner. BUT when I have a high braking area (like a straight braking into a chicane) I will go into the brakes until I feel the ABS bump once, then hold it there or back off slightly. I guess that's what you are refering to by threshold braking. I've only used the threshold terminology when there is no ABS.

I've seen the goods and bads with ABS on the track. On a Porsche I've seen the ABS pump lock up and send the car into a wall. On a high HP Mustang I've seen the all the tires destroyed due to locking them up on ground asphalt.

One of those preference things. I know I'm not get the last 1% out of the car, but I also don't think I am at as much of risk to hurt the car if I am forced down a couple of notches.

Plus there is usually enough of a difference between the capabilities of the cars that I am racing against, that I know where I am going to stand before we are even on the track. That extra 1%-5% that I am losing isn't going to help me against a Vette that has an extra 200hp... I can already out brake and corner him, but I just can't keep up down the front straights.
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:00 PM   #6
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The subaru doesn't have a prop valve but does have BFD (brake force distribution). The ABS pump controls how much pressure is sent to the rear wheels to maximize stopping. My guess is that a subaru with BFD stops the quickest when you engage the ABS and have BFD doing it's thing. That being said, on a dry track, I tend to threshold brake because I started with a car that didn't have ABS. In the wet, I use the ABS.

If you get stuck with this "never use ABS or always use ABS" religeon, I think it means you're inflexible and will eventually run into a wall (skill wall, not a concrete one). Use whatever works best...period. If that means use the ABS in a subaru then use it. You don't think real racers worry about this do you? The only question is which reduces lap time.
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:51 PM   #7
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I ran without ABS at VIR this February and it was much harder to modulate the brakes properly without the ABS system hooked up.

It also makes an excellent anti flat spot system for expensive race tires.

-Duncan
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:56 PM   #8
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Depends on the corner/ situation
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:57 PM   #9
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ABS would be much more useful if it was adjustable for conditions and driving style. The problem is its permanently set in idiot-soccer-mom-on-a-wet-road mode.
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
ABS would be much more useful if it was adjustable for conditions and driving style. The problem is its permanently set in idiot-soccer-mom-on-a-wet-road mode
How would you adjust it? If it comes on, that means you've exceeded the grip of your tires. The ABS in the STI isn't the same as the ABS in the WRX. It's integrated with the DCCD and is a true 4 channel ABS. The WRX is a 3 channel ABS. At least my 03 was. Mine comes on when I exceed available grip.
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:21 PM   #11
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I've never felt the system got in the way of me turning a fast lap. So it stays.

-Duncan
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:40 PM   #12
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Theshold braking is mostly always brakes faster and harder "with a highly trained foot".

I've used both and i presently have abs on my car and haven't had any big problems. Softer pedal pressure though.I plan to take it off when i get the brake balance right.
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk View Post
I've never felt the system got in the way of me turning a fast lap. So it stays.

-Duncan
I wish I had it. It is a nice piece of insurance and as dunk mentioned, it can keep you from flat spotting an expensive tire.
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:06 AM   #14
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Very true.. i agree its nice insurance.. my buddy with no abs has flat spotted twice.. i was more asking in general do you guys brake to engage abs.. or try and threshold before engaging abs.
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Old 05-09-2009, 11:34 AM   #15
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Well you can threshold brake without actually having the abs engage. Threshold braking is getting as close as you can to wheel lock, without locking the wheels (or in the case of an abs car engaging the abs) ... so if your foot is trained enough to get to that last percent before the wheels would lock, you will never have the abs engage anyway. And just plain ramming the pedal down is counter productive with abs or not anyway, just plain bad technique.

Brandon
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:00 PM   #16
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On my car (02 WRX) ABS will engage for reasons other than loss of grip. It's a known problem, and driving over expansion joints, slight bumps, small sections of sand will engage ABS and pedal to floor. There's a huge thread "bumps+ABS=dirty drawers." There's supposedly a TSB for it that doesn't correct the problem.
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